What is actual sin?

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Gadget

Senior Member
Nov 11, 2014
185
0
0
#1
I just got done reading and studying genesis and while i have a few questions, this one is most promonent.

What is sin? Ive heard that its the act of willful disobidence. But examples in genesis show that not to be that case. Tge best example is abraham who intensionally lied to abimelech to save his life.

This created two issues as i understand lying is a sin. on the other side of the coin abimelech who was about to take sarah was told by god he was a dead man. So basicalky tgis man was to die by gods hands because he was lied too?

So im am asking for opinions on what sin actually is. is it willful or not? If it is then how would abimelech been guilty as he hadnt known and if not. then how we at faukt for sometging we had no control over?

Thx
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
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#2
1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."
 

Gadget

Senior Member
Nov 11, 2014
185
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0
#3
Okay. But this doesnt say anything about if its fillfull or not.

In order to be guilty if viokating ghe law dont you have to know and understand the law first?
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
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#4
Okay. But this doesnt say anything about if its fillfull or not.

In order to be guilty if viokating ghe law dont you have to know and understand the law first?
Romans 2:12, "For as many as have sinned without the Law, will also perish without the Law, and as many as have sinned in the Law, will be judged by the Law."
 

Gadget

Senior Member
Nov 11, 2014
185
0
0
#6
Okay. Maybe im not asking the question right. I appologize since my phones keyboard is a bit loopy...

Is sin the willful disobedience or is it disobedience overall? If it is wouldnt someone have to be born with complete and total knowldge in all things? Since we all are ignorent of at least a few things how can it be justified because we dont nor could know all things?

I hope this clears up the confusion
 

Chopper

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
402
11
0
#7
Sin is the willful disobedience of the law of Yah, which actually separates us from Him, because sin cannot exist in his presence.

This is why there was a veil in the temple, but once Yahushua gave Himself as the perfect and final sacrifice offering, that veil was torn in two, from top to bottom, signifying there is nothing that stands in between us and our Father, when we are covered by the perfect sacrifice that was poured upon the mercy seat.

You might ask how was the blood really put on the mercy seat of the ark when it had been seen over 600 years, but as always, our Father had it all planned. That ark was approximately 20 feet below the crucifixion site at Calgary, and when the earth shook, and the rocks were cracked, His blood flowed down and onto the mercy seat through the crack in the rock that was called place of a skull.

 

Gadget

Senior Member
Nov 11, 2014
185
0
0
#8
Thank you chopper. That is what i was looking for. Althought... I must admit ive not studied the ark of the coventent for a long time but this is the first ive heard of something like that. Could you link a source for that?

But then that goes to the question about why god was ready to strike down abmilemech because abraham lied to him. If he knew sarah was abrahams wife and still was going to take her. I can understand. But he was lied to and was told by abraham that she was his sister. Any thoughts?
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
249
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#9
The Fathers hand is always out, but our sin separates us like Chopper said.

Isayah 59:1-3, "Behold, Yahweh's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; nor His ear heavy, that it cannot hear. But your own iniquities have separated you from your Father; and your own sins have caused Him to hide His face from you, so He will not listen. For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity; sin. Your lips have spoken lies, your tongue has muttered perverseness."

1 Kepha 3:12, "For the eyes of Yahweh are on the righteous, and His ears are open to their prayers; but the face of Yahweh is against those who do evil."

praise Yahweh we have Yahshua (Jesus) our High Priest and mediator;

1 Timothy 2:5, "For One is Yahweh; and One Mediator between Yahweh and men: the Man, Yahshua Messiah."

1 Timothy 2:5(ESV) For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man[a] Christ Jesus,

but we must confess our sins to our Father;

1 John 1:6-10, "If we say that we have fellowship with Him, but walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the alight, as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Yahshua Messiah His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Law is not in us."
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
249
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#11
Thank you hizikyah. :) bless you.
Thank you! Can we read the blessing together? :)

Numbers 6:24-27,

"YAHWEH BLESS YOU AND KEEP YOU.

YAHWEH MAKE HIS FACE SHINE UPON YOU AND BE MERCIFUL TO YOU.

YAHWEH LIFT UP HIS COUNTENANCE UPON YOU, AND GIVE YOU PEACE.

So they will put MY NAME on the children of Israyl, and I will bless them.
"


Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though Yahweh's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are Yahweh's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."

Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is Yahweh our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."
 

Chopper

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
402
11
0
#12
Thank you chopper. That is what i was looking for. Althought... I must admit ive not studied the ark of the coventent for a long time but this is the first ive heard of something like that. Could you link a source for that?

But then that goes to the question about why god was ready to strike down abmilemech because abraham lied to him. If he knew sarah was abrahams wife and still was going to take her. I can understand. But he was lied to and was told by abraham that she was his sister. Any thoughts?

Ark of the Covenant

[video=youtube;bYIwjYN4JVo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYIwjYN4JVo[/video]
 
Nov 26, 2011
3,818
61
0
#13
I just got done reading and studying genesis and while i have a few questions, this one is most promonent.

What is sin? Ive heard that its the act of willful disobidence. But examples in genesis show that not to be that case. Tge best example is abraham who intensionally lied to abimelech to save his life.

This created two issues as i understand lying is a sin. on the other side of the coin abimelech who was about to take sarah was told by god he was a dead man. So basicalky tgis man was to die by gods hands because he was lied too?

So im am asking for opinions on what sin actually is. is it willful or not? If it is then how would abimelech been guilty as he hadnt known and if not. then how we at faukt for sometging we had no control over?

Thx
Sin can be both willful and non-willful.

It is willful sin which brings death, non-willful brings correction.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

1. Sin unto death
2. Obedience unto righteousness

Sin unto death = disobedience unto unrighteousness.

Therefore...

Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Thus...

Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

1Jn 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

1Jn 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
1Jn 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Two kinds of sin. One is rebellion, the other is falling short in ignorance. It is only rebellion which cuts one off from God (spiritual death).

Hence the context of the warning...

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Num 15:30 But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Num 15:31 Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.
Num 15:32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
Num 15:33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
Num 15:34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
Num 15:35 And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
Num 15:36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
249
0
#14
1 Corinthians 2:9, "But as it is written: Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the mind of man the things which Yahweh has prepared for those who love Him."

Mattithyah 22:37, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might."
 
Nov 26, 2011
3,818
61
0
#15
Sin is the willful disobedience of the law of Yah, which actually separates us from Him, because sin cannot exist in his presence.

This is why there was a veil in the temple, but once Yahushua gave Himself as the perfect and final sacrifice offering, that veil was torn in two, from top to bottom, signifying there is nothing that stands in between us and our Father, when we are covered by the perfect sacrifice that was poured upon the mercy seat.

You might ask how was the blood really put on the mercy seat of the ark when it had been seen over 600 years, but as always, our Father had it all planned. That ark was approximately 20 feet below the crucifixion site at Calgary, and when the earth shook, and the rocks were cracked, His blood flowed down and onto the mercy seat through the crack in the rock that was called place of a skull.
All that is a mere shadow or type. The blood cleanses us not because it literally touched a physical ark but rather it cleanses because it is what establishes the New Covenant which is something we must enter into.

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Heb 9:18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
Heb 9:19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
Heb 9:20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
Heb 9:21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
Heb 9:23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Heb 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
Heb 9:25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
Heb 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Jesus is the mediator of the reconciliation process between the repentant sinner and God the Creator. The Bible says...

Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Heb 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)
Heb 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


Notice...

1. We approach God in a new and living way (grace which reforms the heart as opposed to law which only reforms outer conduct).
2. We approach God via the blood with a true heart (godly sorrow working repentance produces an honest confession of past wrong doing).
3. Our past rebellion is cleansed.
4. Future rebellion is to hold the reconciliation process in contempt, it is to treat the blood of Jesus as cheap.

Hence Paul taught...

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2Co 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
2Co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

The reconciliation process deals with the human heart and effects a complete purging of iniquity. Thus we are removed from the state of "sinning unto death" and thus God may forgive us without issuing a license to sin.
 
Nov 26, 2011
3,818
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#16
The common held theological views regarding the definition of sin and the understanding of why Jesus died are wrong.

Many people have erroneously been convinced that they are "born sinners" and thus they hold to the notion of "sin you will and sin you must." Thus their doctrine eliminates the forsaking of rebellion once and for all in repentance.

Due to the belief in ongoing rebellion in some form, the death of Christ is then viewed as a cloak for the ongoing shortcomings of the "saved sinner." This is where the false teaching of "Jesus paying the sin penalty" is easily swallowed despite the Bible teaching nothing of the sort.

Most of what is known as Christianity today is a massive deception which takes the form of a lamb but speaks as a dragon. Be careful in what manner you hear.

Luk 8:18 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
12,898
681
113
63
#17
I just got done reading and studying genesis and while i have a few questions, this one is most promonent.

What is sin? Ive heard that its the act of willful disobidence. But examples in genesis show that not to be that case. Tge best example is abraham who intensionally lied to abimelech to save his life.

This created two issues as i understand lying is a sin. on the other side of the coin abimelech who was about to take sarah was told by god he was a dead man. So basicalky tgis man was to die by gods hands because he was lied too?

So im am asking for opinions on what sin actually is. is it willful or not? If it is then how would abimelech been guilty as he hadnt known and if not. then how we at faukt for sometging we had no control over?

Thx
I can kind of see your confusion about a matter like this. Another example would be Jonah where he was told go to Nineveh and got on a boat headed to Tarshish and this horrible storm came up and all others were praying to their gods while Jonah slept and had to be awakened and told to pray to his God.

I mean the other people on the boat were suffering the consequences of Jonah's disobedience to God. Those men even cast lots to find out who was responsible for this trouble and the lot fell on Jonah who confessed his error to them. In order for the storm to stop they had to throw Jonah overboard who was then swallowed by a BIG Fish. So I guess we could also ask why did everyone else on board that boat have to suffer through such a scary storm? Questions - I believe there are answers to though

Just as in abimelech's case the error was revealed to both him and those other men on the boat and I believe it was God revealing the mistakes of both Abraham and Jonah to these outside parties and I also believe that these errors were revealed so these outside people would Not Proceed in helping or committing a sin of their own by continuing on because of the error Abraham and Jonah made.

Abrahams sin was a lie, but even though abimelech got sick the error of Abraham was revealed to him so that Abimelech would not commit the sin of adultery in other words the sickness made him pay attention and he could accept the fact that Sarah was Abraham's wife and then decide not to commit the sin and question Abraham as to why he wasn't honest and tell him Sarah was his wife....

There is also that verse from the Bible that says Be sure your sins will find you out. Abraham got caught in a sin. Abimelech was spared committing a sin by getting sick. Had he continued in the sin after knowledge he probably would have ended up dead. But before that could happen it was revealed to him that Sarah was Abrahams wife.

Before the knowledge Abimelech had no control over the situation but God in mercy revealed the truth to him and at that point Abimelech did have a choice to make and he made the right choice. As well as the men on the boat when revealed that Jonah was disobeying a direct order from God the men were instructed to throw Jonah over board and the storm immediately stopped and those men then worshipped Jonah's God.

God does show mercy to the outside parties even when we sin and disobey God....when things are out of their control. In both cases the errors were revealed to the outside parties giving them a chance to be saved even when the storm or sickness was caused by someone close to God who should have known better to start with. At least that is this Blond's take on both of those stories.
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
12,898
681
113
63
#18
Thank you chopper. That is what i was looking for. Althought... I must admit ive not studied the ark of the coventent for a long time but this is the first ive heard of something like that. Could you link a source for that?

But then that goes to the question about why god was ready to strike down abmilemech because abraham lied to him. If he knew sarah was abrahams wife and still was going to take her. I can understand. But he was lied to and was told by abraham that she was his sister. Any thoughts?
It was kind of like a half lie not that it makes it o.k. as Sarah I believe was a half sister to Abraham going off memory here and sometimes it can be faulty.
 

Gadget

Senior Member
Nov 11, 2014
185
0
0
#19
That kinda makes sense. God did intervine. But what if he hadnt? ( i know if if and buts were candy and nuts...) but my point is say he hadnt. Or didnt understand the message? Would he have died from it?
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
12,898
681
113
63
#20
That kinda makes sense. God did intervine. But what if he hadnt? ( i know if if and buts were candy and nuts...) but my point is say he hadnt. Or didnt understand the message? Would he have died from it?
I believe he probably would have died, but like you say it is a what if? The reality was he was warned and obeyed that warning. So no what if's really apply here.

God is fair and just and He gives us mercy and many chances to accept Jesus as our Savior. God loves us and is for us not against us if He were He would have zapped us out of existence and started over, but God is not and unjust God and gives all of us chances, over and over again. Sometimes chances we aren't even aware of.