What is reformed?

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Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#41
I believe those two witnesses are to be Enoch and Elijah.
I believe they will be Moses and Elijah (based on the nature of their miracles, and the fact the Enoch was not present at the Transfiguration of Christ). Also their ministry will coincide with the reign of the Antichrist (1260 days = 42 months = 3 1/2 years). At the same time, since they are not named, no one can be dogmatic about this (except that the coming of Elijah BEFORE the Day of the LORD is guaranteed in Malachi).
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#42
I believe they will be Moses and Elijah (based on the nature of their miracles, and the fact the Enoch was not present at the Transfiguration of Christ). Also their ministry will coincide with the reign of the Antichrist (1260 days = 42 months = 3 1/2 years). At the same time, since they are not named, no one can be dogmatic about this (except that the coming of Elijah BEFORE the Day of the LORD is guaranteed in Malachi).
Well the Jews hardly know Enoch, he is as mysterious to them as Adam, Abel and Seth, so a more credible witness to them would clearly be Moses himself.
 

Mission21

Pathfinder
Mar 12, 2019
898
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#43
I know what you're saying. Our modern day 'church' model is just as much a tradition as we say the RCC is.
We love to claim how we are separate from the RCC and from their traditions, except we have set up traditions of our own, except we toss more 'spiritual' elements to our services.
Good comment / point.
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'Modern Church ( Protestant & Catholic )' is another establishment / system.
- Similar to 'political system.'
- Focus is on 'status, power..etc.'
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I am saying this from experience.
- I was involved in several churches ( Protestant tradition ).
- During my spiritual journey.. 45+ years.

Blessings,
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,318
1,184
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#44
Forgive me, I'm new to all this. My parents were Dutch Reformed but I don't know too much about it. Do we know where the true church is then?
The true church is not a physical building. It is made up of those who have been born again of the Holy Spirit and are able to discern the things of the Spirit. They begin their new life, as babes in Christ, and began to grow as they drink the milk of the word and eventually are able to chew on the meat of the word. Isaiah 28:9-10 - Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breast. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, and there a little. Ezk 1:16 divides the babes from those who are weaned from the breast in this manner, "And their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel". The outer wheel being the larger amount as the babes in Christ and the inner wheel being the few that understand the doctrine that Jesus taught, which is the meat of the word. This may be hard for a babe in Christ to understand, but have patience. Romans 5:3-4-5, And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also knowing that tribulation worketh patience, And patience, experience, and experience, hope, And hope maketh not ashamed, because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
4,551
2,229
113
www.christiancourier.com
#45
I believe they will be Moses and Elijah (based on the nature of their miracles, and the fact the Enoch was not present at the Transfiguration of Christ). Also their ministry will coincide with the reign of the Antichrist (1260 days = 42 months = 3 1/2 years). At the same time, since they are not named, no one can be dogmatic about this (except that the coming of Elijah BEFORE the Day of the LORD is guaranteed in Malachi).
I had no intention of implying Dogma with my opinion. I'd hope no one would be so bold as to commit to such an effort. However, most anything is possible in the human way of things.
 
Apr 15, 2017
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#46
Does reformed mean? Repurposed, rebuilt, Renewed or repentant? Why didn't some Church founders go back to the first century pre RCC basics rather than attempt to modify a broken system with more rules and humanistic traditions. Is the spirit of the law so ambiguous to some they must go back to serving the letter of the law, or worse yet compound the problem's by adding more laws?

Inquiring minds want to know.
The Bible is the most misinterpreted book in the history of mankind because it is the most popular book of mankind, for not only do people only go by the Bible, but many believe the Bible has truth but not all of it, and many religions believe the Bible has truth but interpret it according to their religion, and many people have beliefs not part of the Bible, and it becomes their foundation for interpreting scriptures.

It is like when the Pharisees sent officers to take Jesus and they came back without Him, and the Pharisees said why didn't you arrest Him, and they said, no man ever spoke like this man, for Jesus spoke so boldly, and with authority in His speaking that they thought we better leave this man alone for if He is telling the truth we do not want to be going against God.

And so it is with the Bible that is speaks so boldly, and with authority that many people say we better leave this book alone for if it is telling the truth we do not want to be going against God, so the many people that will not take it literally will interpret it according to how they want to hear it for the book seems like it cannot be denied.

But the new age movement will change all that, and the world will like that interpretation and will not have to believe it according to what they want to hear for evolution will win the day.

Which I do not care what they say about their interpretations but take it like it is written not afraid of how it is written, and do not want to hear it any other way.

So I do not care what Martin Luther says, and John Wesley, and what they say of any of those other people.

The Bible says we need not that any man teach us, but the Spirit will teach us, so why worry do much what these people say, and the Bible speaks for itself.

I actually do not trust to hear other people.

But people have more differences over the Bible than any other religion, or book.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#47
Does reformed mean? Repurposed, rebuilt, Renewed or repentant? Why didn't some Church founders go back to the first century pre RCC basics rather than attempt to modify a broken system with more rules and humanistic traditions. Is the spirit of the law so ambiguous to some they must go back to serving the letter of the law, or worse yet compound the problem's by adding more laws?

Inquiring minds want to know.
In effect the Holy Spirit did take it back to the first century, a carbon copy of any reformation that restores.

To reform is to restore the government of God . The government as the gospel of peace as that which surpasses all human understanding as the understanding that God reveals making it known to us..

Two... the father and the Son working together in perfect harmony of submissiveness . The greater place and not person .The father the loving unseen authority working with the Son of man seen the willing submissiveness. The Son cries out in weakness as the father pours out the wrath. The father summits to his cry and strengthens him to finish the work .

Sola scriptura as in all things written in the law and the prophets is the restoring authority in any generation or family where two or three gather together under his name. . . sola scriptura .
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#49
Romans3:28 according to the Berean Study Bible 28) For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
Yes, justified by the work of Christ's faith as a labor of Love. It works in us to both will and do His good pleasure. Not by any work we could perform independent of His Spirit.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#50
I believe they will be Moses and Elijah (based on the nature of their miracles, and the fact the Enoch was not present at the Transfiguration of Christ). Also their ministry will coincide with the reign of the Antichrist (1260 days = 42 months = 3 1/2 years). At the same time, since they are not named, no one can be dogmatic about this (except that the coming of Elijah BEFORE the Day of the LORD is guaranteed in Malachi).
The corrupted flesh of Moses and Elijah'is long gone.

I believe they will be the law signified by Moses, and the prophets signified by Elijah .(sola scriptura) The two written witnesses of God not the witness of men. They are not miracles performed after the things seen ( literal bodies of Moses and Elijah) We walk by the unseen, eternal faith, to eternal faith

1 John 5:8-10 King James Version (KJV) And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
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Anaheim, Cali.
#51
Apostolic ways like believing God as he reveals himself through his word?
No. I meant baptism in rivers lakes and streams for the repentant adults that have come to believe. Sharing a common meal while sharing about the Lord getting reports from missionaries directly and not through the impersonal media. And collecting and sharing with the poor and needy at church and sending missionaries to prisons and hospitals as a community action not just an anonymous collection going to anonymous ministers of the gospel. That's what I'm talking about.
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
6,002
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Australia
#52
No. I meant baptism in rivers lakes and streams for the repentant adults that have come to believe. Sharing a common meal while sharing about the Lord getting reports from missionaries directly and not through the impersonal media. And collecting and sharing with the poor and needy at church and sending missionaries to prisons and hospitals as a community action not just an anonymous collection going to anonymous ministers of the gospel. That's what I'm talking about.
It's quite sad that the institutional church has turned from serving people to being served by people.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,086
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#53
That's my point. Commuion was a shared common meal. Baptism was for adults not infants. There wer no idols or statues. The believers not only worshiped but shared what they had together. Not just in words but tangible items too. And the churches sent people to other churches to learn and edify each other as well.
As far as I know, the movement that calls itself 'Reformed' has historically not tended to be into statues or even that much church art. Some of them were against decorated altars and clerical vestments. It was less ornate that Lutheranism. I don't know about now, but that is probably still true to some extent. Those in that movement can correct me if I am wrong. Movements associated with Calvinism and the churches in Geneva Switzerland in the Reformation era often call themselves Reformed. Presbyterians and Dutch Reformed are from that movement.

Historically, many of the Baptist groups had theology in line with Calvinism, but much of the movement moved away from that. In recent decades, some Baptists have called themselves 'Reformed Baptists.' Since those who historically called themselves 'Reformed' have believed in infant baptism, Baptists calling themselves that must seem strange or comical to them.

I agree with you that baptism is for those who have faith. I would not say it is for adults only since children can believe and confess their faith. Early in the Reformation period, some of the anabaptists claimed to be prophets, led a rebellion and led people to their deaths. Some started practicing polygamy. The very peaceful anabaptists got blamed for it and anabaptists were considered to be dangerous. So those on the other end of the argument polarized against infant baptism and persecuted them. Infant baptism is such a very, very old tradition and it was not specifically addressed in scripture. Lutheran and Reformed movements weren't that by the book when it comes to such doctrines.

As far as why didn't they go all the way back to the apostles? Well, if you ask some Reformed people, they will say they did. I would agree that it did not go all the way back to apostolic practice in a number of ways. I agree the early church ate an actual meal. A cracker and a tiny portion of wine might be a full meal if you were very poor, btw. I don't see the micro-portions as forbidden. It's a practical solution to prevent the gluttony problems of Corinth, but it's probably overkill that probably deprives us of some of the experience and makes it hard to make the connection between the supper and its historical roots in the last supper and the Passover. Historically, the Roman Catholics got rid of the wine for nonpriests and gave them only the tiny wafer.

I would also point out the mutually-participatory nature of New Testament meetings. Hebrews 10:24-25 indicates that when the church meetings, we are to 'exhort one another'...in the context of provoking one another to love and to good works. I Corinthians 14 contains 'commandments of the Lord' for church meetings. The type of meetings the church was assumed to have was a meeting where 'every one of you' sings, teaches, shares revelations, tongues, and interpretations. The commands there allow for interpreted tongues, for prophets to prophesy, and for 'ye all' to be allowed to prophesy. The Bible never tells 'pastors' or even elders, specifically' to preach or teach in church. Elders are to be 'apt to teach', so if 'every one of you' may teach in church, we can infer that those who were to be appointed elders in the church were to be among those who taught the assembly.

The implication seems to be that there was a somewhat 'open floor' in the church. Edersheim's 'Life and Times...' indicates that regular men in the synagogue could preach in the synagogue. in Acts, the synagogue ruler asked, "Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on." The church seemed to have a more 'open floor' than the synagogue if Edersheim presents it accurately. But the synagogue could have also had a very open format, too, to allow Jewish men to speak. Some men opposed Paul verbally in the synagogue (Acts 18:6). It is possible that Paul and Barnabas argued against false teachings in a church meeting (Acts 15:2.) Apparently, the Jerusalem church allowed members to speak on a contraversial issue during a church meeting (Acts 15:3-4) also.