What is the meaning of Hebrews 4?

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A

Ariel82

Guest
#41
The 7[SUP]th[/SUP] day? 7,000 years, the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] day or years 6,001-7,000 represents the “Sabbath millennium,” all of the Moadim (appointed times) of YHWH are prophetic pictures of works of the Messiah;



Fulfilled already- To be fulfilled in the future

1. Passover/First-fruits – Yahshua's Sacrifice(Passover), burial and resurrection (First Fruits – presenting Himself to YHWH)
2. Feast of Unleavened Bread – Removal of sin by Yahshua's perfect work as the Passover Sacrifice
3. Feast of Weeks – The blessing Holy Spirit of YHWH, coming into our lives stronger than ever

4. Feast of Trumpets – Yahshua's return and gathering of the Saints
5. Day of Atonement – Yahshua leads the army of YHWH to destroy evil rulers of this world and satan is chained for 1,000 years
6. Feast of Tabernacles – Yahshua dwells on earth for 1,000 years teaching truth and righteousness
7. The Last Great Day – satan is loosed and swiftly destroyed, the Kingdom of YHWH reigns forever



The 7[SUP]th[/SUP] day Sabbath represents “Sabbath millennium” or “the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] day”;


Psalm 90:4, “For a thousand years in Your eyes Are like yesterday that has past, Or like a watch in the night.”


2 Peter 3:8, “But, beloved ones, let not this one matter be hidden from you: that with יהוה one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”


If you add up the genealogies in the Scripture, from Adam to Yahshua it is about 4,000 years. We know Yahshua came about 2,000 years ago. This shows we are around the year 6,000 nearing the “Sabbath millennium.” This would mean that the Messiah would come in the “4[SUP]th[/SUP] day” using the a day for 1,000 year principle in 2 Peter 3:8 and Psalm 90:4. If we look to the week of creation, the sun was created in the 4[SUP]th[/SUP] day;


Genesis 1:14-19, “And the Mighty One said, “Let lights come to be in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and appointed times, and for days and years, and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth. And it came to be so. And the Mighty One made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night, and the stars. And the Mighty One set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, and to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And the Mighty One saw that it was good. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, the fourth day.”


The prophet Malachi spoke of Messiah as the “Sun of Righteousness” that would “arise with healing in His wings;


Malachi 4:2, “But to you who fear My Name the Sun of Righteousness shall arise with healing in His wings. And you shall go out and leap for joy like calves from the stall.”


If we look at the fact the literal sun was created in the 4[SUP]th[/SUP] day in context of Malachi’s prophecy this was a foreshadowing of the coming Messiah, that would come around the year 4,000, that we see did “arise with healing in His wings.


Matthew 9:20-22, “And see, a woman who had a flow of blood for twelve years came from behind and touched the tzitzit of His garment. For she said to herself, “If I only touch His garment, I shall be healed.” But יהושע turned, and when He saw her He said, “Take courage, daughter, your belief has healed you.” And the woman was healed from that hour.”


Matthew 14:35-36, “And when the men of that place recognized Him, they sent out into all that surrounding country, and brought to Him all who were sick, and begged Him to let them only touch the tzitzit of His garment. And as many as touched it were completely healed.”


It has been around 2,000 years since Yahshua came, thus;


Hosheyah 6:1-3, “Come, and let us turn back to יהוה. For He has torn but He does heal us, He has stricken but He binds us up. After two days He shall revive us, on the third day He shall raise us up, so that we live before Him. So let us know, let us pursue to know יהוה. His going forth is as certain as the morning. And He comes to us like the rain, like the latter rain watering the earth.”


Again Yahshua came 2,000 years ago that is why Hosheyah 6:1-3 says, “...After two days He shall revive us...


Mat:29-31, “Immediately, but after the tribulation of those days will the sun be darkened, and the moon will not give her light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven; and then will all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His malakim with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of earth to the other.”


Revelation 20:4-6, "And I saw thrones – and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them – and the lives of those who had been beheaded because of the witness they bore to יהושע and because of the Word of the Mighty One, and who did not worship the beast, nor his image, and did not receive his mark upon their foreheads or upon their hands. And they lived and reigned with Messiah for a thousand years and the rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended) – this is the first resurrection. Blessed and set-apart is the one having part in the first resurrection. The second death possesses no authority over these, but they shall be priests of YHWH and of Messiah, and shall reign with Him a thousand years."


So the first 4,000 years was Adam to Yahshua, 2,000 years later Yahshua returns and reigns for 1,000 years, at the end of the 1,000 years the eternal Kingdom of YHWH is established forever.


Hosheyah 6:1-3, “on the third day He shall raise us up


During ths 1,000 years satan is bound and peace, the teachings and the guidance of YHWH fills the land;


Isaiah 11:1-9, "And a Rod shall come forth from the stump of Yishai, and a Sprout from his roots shall be fruitful. The Spirit of יהוה shall rest upon Him – the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of יהוה, and shall make Him breathe in the fear of יהוה. And He shall not judge by the sight of His eyes, nor decide by the hearing of His ears. But with righteousness He shall judge the poor, and shall decide with straightness for the meek ones of the earth, and shall strike the earth with the rod of His mouth, and slay the wrong with the breath of His lips. And righteousness shall be the girdle of His loins, and trustworthiness the girdle of His waist. And a wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and a leopard lie down with the young goat, and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together, and a little child leads them. And cow and bear shall feed, their young ones lie down together, and a lion eat straw like an ox. And the nursing child shall play by the cobra’s hole, and the weaned child shall put his hand in the adder’s den. They do no evil nor destroy in all My set-apart mountain, for the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of יהוה as the waters cover the sea."


Habakkuk 2:13-14, “See, it is not from יהוה of hosts that peoples labour only for fire, and nations weary themselves for naught, for the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the esteem of יהוה, as the waters cover the sea!"


Isayah 66:21-24, “And from them too I shall take for priests – for Lĕwites,” declares יהוה. For as the new heavens and the new earth that I make stand before Me,” declares יהוה, “so your seed and your name shall stand. And it shall be that from New moon to New moon, and from Sabbath to Sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before Me,” declares יהוה. And they shall go forth and look upon the corpses of the men who have transgressed against Me. For their worm shall not die, and their fire not be quenched. And they shall be repulsive to all flesh!”


Zecharyah 14:8-21, And in that day it shall be that living waters flow from Yerushalayim, half of them toward the eastern sea and half of them toward the western sea, in summer as well as in winter. 9, And יהוהshall be Sovereign over all the earth In that day there shall be one יהוה, and His Name one. 10, All the land shall be changed into a desert plain from Geḇa to Rimmon south of Yerushalayim, and she shall be raised up and inhabited in her place from Binyamin’s Gate to the place of the First Gate and the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Ḥanan’ĕl to the winepresses of the sovereign. 11, And they shall dwell in her, and there shall be no more utter destruction, but Yerushalayim shall be safely inhabited. 12, And this is the plague with which יהוה plagues all the people who fought against Yerushalayim: their flesh shall decay while they stand on their feet, and their eyes decay in their sockets, and their tongues decay in their mouths. 13, And it shall be in that day that a great confusion from יהוה is among them, and everyone of them shall seize the hand of his neighbor, and his hand rise up against his neighbor's hand. 14, And Yehuḏah shall fight at Yerushalayim as well. And the wealth of all the nations round about shall be gathered together: gold, and silver, and garments in great quantities. 15, So also is the plague on the horse and the mule, on the camel and the donkey, and on all the cattle that are in those camps – as this plague.
16, And it shall be that all who are left from all the nations which came up against Yerushalayim, shall go up from year to year to bow themselves to the Sovereign, יהוה of hosts, and to celebrate the Festival of Sukkot. 17, And it shall be, that if anyone of the clans of the earth does not come up to Yerushalayim to bow himself to the Sovereign, יהוה of hosts, on them there is to be no rain. 18, And if the clan of Mitsrayim does not come up and enter in, then there is no rain. On them is the plague with which יהוה plagues the nations who do not come up to celebrate the Festival of Sukkot. 19, This is the punishment of Mitsrayim and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to celebrate the Festival of Sukkot. 20, In that day “SET-APART TO יהוה" shall be engraved on the bells of the horses. And the pots in the House of יהוה shall be like the bowls before the sacrifice-place. 21, And every pot in Yerushalayim and Yehuḏah shall be set-apart to יהוה of hosts. And all those who sacrifice shall come and take them and cook in them. And there shall no longer be a merchant in the House of יהוה of hosts, in that day.”
According to your timeline and words are you saying that Jesus is scheduled to come within the,next 1000 years?

What happens if your prophecy doesn't come true?
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
#42

Hebrews 4 is an important chapter with many lessons for Christian today. Here is what can be gleaned from this Scripture

1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
This is a reference to the eternal rest of God, who has finished both His creative and redemptive works. Believers have been given a promise to enter into His rest, and this would be a reference to this promise and invitation of Christ in Mt 11:28-30: Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

This is a rest of the soul which rests in the perfection of Christ and His finished work. But since this was addressed to Jewish believers who were vacillating between Moses and Christ, Paul warned them that some might come short of it if they did not rest in Christ alone.

2
For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
The Gospel was preached to the Israelites in many ways, including the Passover Lamb and the Brazen Serpent. For OT saints believing in God and believing on God was sufficient for justification. But that pillar of cloud was Christ, and so was that Rock from which the water gushed out. So the Gospel was preached to them in many ways and at different times. But as we know from Scripture, the majority of the Israelites never fully trusted God, nor obeyed Him fully. So they perished in the wilderness, other than Joshua and Caleb from that generation.

3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Genuine believers rest totally on the perfection of Christ and His finished work in His death, burial, and resurrection. So here Paul refers to the rest of God after creation as well as the rest of God after the redemptive work of Christ. We are justified by grace through faith, and not by works of righteousness which we have done.

4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
This is a reference to Genesis 1 & 2 as well as Exodus 20. Since God cannot be “tired” as men are tired and weary, His rest was a CESSATION of creative activity.

5
And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
God desires sinners to enter into His rest and have fellowship with Him. This is only possible when we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and then walk “in the Light” (or walk in the Spirit). Christians who sin and do not deal with their sins forefeit fellowship with God, and their souls are restless.

6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
So while the Gospel was preached to the Israelites in the wilderness, few entered into God’s rest because of their own unbelief. Therefore now Paul is speaking to redeemed Jews and urging them that there is a rest into which they must enter through faith.

7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Now Paul is telling these believers to respond to the convicting of the Holy Spirit after they hear this message, and to trust in Christ totally, not return to the works of the Law in order to be justified. They are not to harden their hearts when they hear the truth. And this is also a warning to us. Many Christians harden their hearts against the truth for one reason or another.

8
For if Jesus [Joshua] had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Joshua brought the new generation of Israelites into Canaan, but they did not rest in God and in faith. They did not believe God even after He gave them victory after victory, and they did not totally drive out their enemies. Thus we read in Judges that they went into idolatry again and again, and paid for it.

9
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
This was addressed to the Jewish believers to whom this epistle was written, but it also applies to us. Every generation of Christians must rest in Christ, and Christ alone. Therefore there “remaineth” a rest to the people of God. If you are not resting totally in Christ for your salvation and sanctification, you have not entered into His rest.

10
For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
The Christian who has truly entered into the rest of God will never try to earn God’s approval through his own works. Instead He will do the good works which the Holy Spirit produces in him.

11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
The use of the word “labour” here means let us strive to remain at rest in and through Christ, not depend upon ourselves, but on the Holy Spirit both to will and to do of His good pleasure. So while we “work out our salvation” through obedience and good works, we keep in mind that it is God working in and through us. This is what is means to walk by faith.

12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
This is somewhat of a digression, but it brings us back to the necessity of having the Bible search our hearts and minds constantly to see whether we are walking in faith and in the Spirit, or walking in unbelief and in the flesh.

14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
This again looks like a digression, but one of the most important facts for a Christian to maintain his rest in Christ is to remember that he has a High Priest in Heaven, who is no less than Jesus, the Son of God. Therefore there is no need to waver under any circumstances, and instead we are to hold fast to our conviction that Christ is our Sufficiency.

15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
This tells us that Jesus understands what every believer goes through when the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. He Himself was tempted in all points, “yet without sin”. This is important since the sin nature was absent from Christ’s humanity. He could not sin, He would not sin, and He did not sin. But He understand how believers are assaulted with temptations. Yet, they can be overcomers, since “faith is the victory” over sin.

16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
This is telling us that when we are tempted and sin, we must come to God’s throne of grace in order (1) to obtain mercy through confession of sins and repentance, and (2) to obtain grace from God to help us in our time of need, when assaulted by the Devil and his evil angels, who would drive us to sin and unbelief.
Thank you for the reply, much appreciated, I have a few questions:


Hebrews 4 is an important chapter with many lessons for Christian today. Here is what can be gleaned from this Scripture

1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
This is a reference to the eternal rest of God, who has finished both His creative and redemptive works. Believers have been given a promise to enter into His rest, and this would be a reference to this promise and invitation of Christ in Mt 11:28-30: Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

This is a rest of the soul which rests in the perfection of Christ and His finished work. But since this was addressed to Jewish believers who were vacillating between Moses and Christ, Paul warned them that some might come short of it if they did not rest in Christ alone.
Do you believe this rest Yahshua/Jesus offers is obtainable now or that it is eternal rest in the Kingdom?

If you beleive it is rest now and not in the kingdom how do you view this passage:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 14:13, “And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me: Write: Blessed are the dead, the ones dying in the Messiah from now on! Yes, says the Spirit: because they will rest from their labors, and their works do follow them!”[/FONT]



7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Now Paul is telling these believers to respond to the convicting of the Holy Spirit after they hear this message, and to trust in Christ totally, not return to the works of the Law in order to be justified. They are not to harden their hearts when they hear the truth. And this is also a warning to us. Many Christians harden their hearts against the truth for one reason or another.
I agree none are justified by the workd of the Law, yet it does not even mention the Law or justification, aslo what it is quoting "do not harden your hearts" is about rebellion of not doing what the Creator said:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 3:7-19, “Therefore, as the Set-apart Spirit says, “Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, in the day of trial in the wilderness, where your fathers tried Me, proved Me, and saw My works forty years. Therefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, ‘They always go astray in their heart, and they have not known My ways. As I swore in My wrath, ‘If they shall enter into My rest...’ Look out, brothers, lest there be in any of you a wicked heart of unbelief in falling away from the living Father, but encourage one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened by the deceivableness of sin. For we have become partakers of Messiah if we hold fast the beginning of our trust firm to the end, while it is said, “Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.” For who, having heard, rebelled? Was it not all who came out of Mitsrayim, led by Mosheh? And with whom was He grieved forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? And to whom did He swear that they would not enter into His rest, but to those who did not obey? So we see that they were unable to enter in because of unbelief.[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]How did they “harden their hearts” and “rebel” in the wilderness?[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Exodus 16:25-28, “And Mosheh said, “Eat it today, for today is a Sabbath to [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה, today you do not find it in the field. Gather it six days, but on the seventh day, which is the Sabbath, there is none.” And it came to be that some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather, but they found none. And [/FONT]יהוה [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]said to Mosheh, “How long shall you refuse to guard My commands and My Torah?”

Does you view consider how they hardened their hearts, in direct disobedience and that literal disobedience being called unbelief?
[/FONT][/FONT]

Heb 3:19, "[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]And to whom did He swear that they would not enter into His rest, but to those who did not obey? So we see that they were unable to enter in because of unbelief.[/FONT]
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
#43

9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
This was addressed to the Jewish believers to whom this epistle was written, but it also applies to us. Every generation of Christians must rest in Christ, and Christ alone. Therefore there “remaineth” a rest to the people of God. If you are not resting totally in Christ for your salvation and sanctification, you have not entered into His rest.

Can you quote verses how one can “rest” in Him? Do we have to do His will or is that optional?


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 14:13, “And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me: Write: Blessed are the dead, the ones dying in the Messiah from now on! Yes, says the Spirit: because they will rest from their labors, and their works do follow them!”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 11:27-30, "All things have been delivered to Me by My Father. And no one fully knows the Son except the Father, neither does anyone fully know the Father, except the Son and those whom YHWH wills the Son to reveal. Come to Me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]He says “My burden is light” we can see by the following passage “His commands are not heavy[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]So the Messiah is not giving a rest from doing the right thing….[/FONT]
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#44
Same way salvation is past present and future.

We are saved because of what Jesus did on the cross.

We are being saved by the leading of the Holy Spirit.

We will be saved when we get new resurrected bodies with our Heavenly father.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
#45
According to your timeline and words are you saying that Jesus is scheduled to come within the,next 1000 years?

What happens if your prophecy doesn't come true?
I wouldnt call it my prophecy, I believe it is in the Word, and I believe He will return, take note I never gave any kind of exact date. I would ask if you find error in my breakdown of the 7,000 year plan view first, but aside from that I would highlight a few things:

Hosheyah 6:1-3, “Come, and let us turn back to יהוה. For He has torn but He does heal us, He has stricken but He binds us up. After two days He shall revive us, on the third day He shall raise us up, so that we live before Him. So let us know, let us pursue to know יהוה. His going forth is as certain as the morning. And He comes to us like the rain, like the latter rain watering the earth.”

the 1,000 year reign and things "being held back" until the fulfness of the Gentiles"
Genesis 48:17-20, “And when Yosĕph saw that his father laid his right hand on the head of Ephrayim, it was evil in his eyes; and he took hold of his father’s hand to remove it from the head of Ephrayim to the head of Menashsheh. And Yosĕph said to his father, “Not so, my father, for this one is the first-born, put your right hand on his head.”" But his father refused and said, “I know, my son, I know. He also becomes a people, and he also is great. And yet, his younger brother is greater than he, and his seed is to become the completeness of the nations.” And he blessed them on that day, saying, “In you Yisra’yl shall bless, saying, ‘The Mighty One make you as Ephrayim and as Menashsheh!” Thus he put Ephrayim before Menashsheh.”


Now I am under no illusion that His plan works on anything except His time clock and His will, Im open to hear other views as I keep an open mind concerning prophecy, but if we take all of this into consideration and we could touch on hundreds of other Scriptures but lets consider Mat 24:

Mat
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"24:32, "“And learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that the summer is near.[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"24:33, "“So you also, when you see all these, know that He is near, at the doors.[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"24:34, "“Truly, I say to you, this generation shall by no means pass away until all this takes place."

So the generation that sees all the signs mentioned in Mat 24 will not pass until all "this" takes place, again if we condsider all things, 7,000 yr plan, all the signs it all lines up properly, "summer is near" This does not mean it is our generation as this may just be the beginning, we see mass increases in earth quakes:

Mat
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"24:7, "“For nation shall rise against nation, and reign against reign. And there shall be scarcities of food, and deadly diseases, and earthquakes in places.[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"24:8, "“And all these are the beginning of birth pains.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]

these are the numbers of magnatude 5.0 or greater earthquakes:

9th-16th century (7)

17th century (10)

18th century (14)

19th century (61)

20th century (428)

First 10 years of the 21st century (465)

“and earth quakes in place after place”"beginning of the birth pangs"

and He told us to watch
[/FONT]
Mat

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"24:42, "“Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Master is coming."
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"24:32, "“And learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that the summer is near.[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"24:33, "“So you also, when you see all these, know that He is near, at the doors.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]

[/FONT]
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
#46
Same way salvation is past present and future.

We are saved because of what Jesus did on the cross.

We are being saved by the leading of the Holy Spirit.

We will be saved when we get new resurrected bodies with our Heavenly father.
I agree with this, and the last part of this many disagree with but He said many times "endure till the end"

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 10:22, “And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matt 24:12-13, “And because of the increase in lawlessness, the love of many shall become cold. But he who shall have endured to the end shall be saved.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 10:36, “For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of Yah you may receive what is promised.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 3:14, “For we have become partakers of Messiah if we hold fast the beginning of our trust firm to the end.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 3:12, "He who overcomes, I will make a pillar in The House of My Father, and he will never go out of it. And I will write upon him the Name of My Father, and the Name of the New Yerusalem which comes down out of heaven from My Father, newly named."[/FONT]




[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 1:12, "Blessed is the man who does endure trial, for when he has been proved, he shall receive the crown of life which the Master has promised to those who love Him."[/FONT]
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
107
63
#47
I wouldnt call it my prophecy, I believe it is in the Word, and I believe He will return, take note I never gave any kind of exact date. I would ask if you find error in my breakdown of the 7,000 year plan view first, but aside from that I would highlight a few things:
I would...

see Mark 13:32 "32 [FONT=&quot]“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.[/FONT]"
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
#48
I would...

see Mark 13:32 "32 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."
yes and I didn;t say I know t he day or hour, did you even read the post beforecommenting on it? If you did you would have seen this:

after giving us a list of things to look for to KNOW He is "near at the door" He said this:

Mat

"24:42, "“Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Master is coming."

"24:32, "“And learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that the summer is near.



"24:33, "“So you also, when you see all these, know that He is near, at the doors.
I take His words seriously, and feel it my duty to watch as He said...

Do you understand the Feast of Trumpets? The day that nonoe can predict exactly when will happen, Yahshua says He will return with the sound of a great Trumpet...

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 8:2, "And I saw the seven messengers who stand before Yah, and to them were given seven trumpets."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 5:5-6, “And one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep. See, the Lion of the tribe of Yehuḏah, the Root of Dawiḏ, overcame to open the scroll and to loosen its seven seals.” And I looked and saw in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders a Lamb standing, as having been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of Yah sent out into all the earth.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 11:15, “And the seventh messenger sounded his trumpet, and there came to be loud voices in the heaven, saying, “The reign of this world has become the reign of our Master, and of His Messiah, and He shall reign forever and ever!” [/FONT]




[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, “Now, brothers, we do not wish you to be ignorant concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you be sad as others who have no expectation. For if we believe that [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]died and rose again, so also Yah shall bring with Him those who sleep in [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. For this we say to you by the word of the Master, that we, the living who are left over at the coming of the Master shall in no way go before those who are asleep. Because the Master Himself shall come down from heaven with a shout, with the voice of a chief messenger, and with the trumpet of Yah, and the dead in Messiah shall rise first. Then we, the living who are left over, shall be caught away together with them in the clouds to meet the Master in the air – and so we shall always be with the Master. So, then, encourage one another with these words."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 15:51-55, “See, I speak a secret to you: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible has to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality. And when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall come to be the word that has been written, “Death is swallowed up in overcoming. O Death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your overcoming?”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:29-31, “And immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give its light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Aḏam shall appear in the heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of Aḏam coming on the clouds of the heaven with power and much esteem. And He shall send His messengers with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His chosen ones from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.”

In Mat 24 Yahshua/Jesus gives a parable of the prototypical Feast of Trumpets as the time of His return.. Again none can exactly predict with 100% accuracy on what day it falls each year that is why "no man know the day or hour"....

yet He says to watch...
[/FONT]
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
107
63
#49
yes and I didn;t say I know he day or hour, did you even read the post before commenting on it? If you did you would have seen this:
And you cannot know the year, the decade or the century either...

The point of the texts telling us to keep watch is PRECISELY because we do not know, nor cannot know, when he will return...
Yet you are confidently telling us the timeline??!!????
Ridiculous!
 
E

Exegete

Guest
#50
"Nehemiah6" did a fine job explaining the verses of Hebrews 4 so I'll let those stand and go on to answer your question, paraphrased - "would seeking to obey God's commands be working for salvation in my eyes?" In short, no. First, we must understand what a covenant relationship is. Often times we think of this like a contract where one party promises one thing if the other party promises to do another. (think of buying a car: you will give me a car IF I give you so much money). The contract does nothing to change us, in fact, it comes between us because the terms of the deal are clearly defined. This is not a covenant. In a covenant relationship, the very definition of the parties changes. Think of Abram/Abraham in Genesis 15-17.

In the context of salvation - and this is where I believe most Christians get it wrong - salvation is not a contract, it is a covenant. The very nature of my being changes. I'm no longer a 'me', I'm a 'we' because Christ is in me. As a result, when it comes to keeping God's commandments, it's not because I HAVE to obey them to be accepted by Him but rather, because of the love that I have for Him I WANT to obey them. This is not me working to obtain any "greater salvation or reward" but working to please my Father and nothing more. As someone once said, "there is nothing you can do to make God love you any less; and nothing you can do to make Him love you any more."
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
#51
And you cannot know the year, the decade or the century either...

The point of the texts telling us to keep watch is PRECISELY because we do not know, nor cannot know, when he will return...
Yet you are confidently telling us the timeline??!!????
Ridiculous!
Mat 24, Revelation and the prophets tell us the coming things. Revelation gives very detailed breakdown of what will happen in the endtimes.

I have studied the entire word, and given focus to end times prophecy ffrom Genesis to Rvelation:

Genesis 49:1-2,1 And Ya‛aqoḇ called his sons and said, “Gather together, so that I declare to you what is to befall you in the last days:"2 “Gather together and hear, you sons of Ya‛aqoḇ, and listen to Yisra’ĕl your father."

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 1:1-2, “Revelation of [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah, which [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה gave Him to show His servants what has to take place with speed. And He signified it by sending His messenger to His servant Yoḥanan, who bore witness to the Word of [/FONT]יהוה[FONT=Times New Roman, serif], and the witness of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah – to all he saw."[/FONT][/FONT]

Mat
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"24:32, "“And learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that the summer is near.[/FONT]




[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"24:33, "“So you also, when you see all these, know that He is near, at the doors.

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"24:36, "“But concerning that day and the hour no one knows, not even the messengers of the heavens, but My Father only[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"24:42, "“Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Master is coming."

He gave us signs to look for and told us to watch BECAUSE we don;t know exactly when, why do you think all this prophecy is given and we are told to watch? Because we are supposed to ignore it?
[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
18,013
9,149
113
#52
Do you believe this rest Yahshua/Jesus offers is obtainable now or that it is eternal rest in the Kingdom?
Yes. This rest in Christ is a present rest within the believer's soul based upon three things (1) Christ has done everything for my eternal salvation, (2) the indwelling Holy Spirit will do everything for my sanctification, provided I have offered myself as a living sacrifice to God (not doing my will but His will), and (3) God will eventually perfect me and glorify me by His grace, since He has predestined me to be "conformed to the image of His Son" (perfect as Christ).

All of this is God's work, so we can rest. I did not say "coast". I said rest, since the believer is appointed unto good works. So while we will be very busy serving God and Christ, our souls will be at peace and at rest because we do not have to produce anything. The Holy Spirit will produce the fruit of the Spirit and the works of the Spirit.
If you believe it is rest now and not in the kingdom how do you view this passage:
Revelation 14:13, “And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me: Write:Blessed are the dead, the ones dying in the Messiah from now on! Yes, says the Spirit: because they will rest from their labors, and their works do follow them!”

This ties right in. "Rest from their labors". As I said we must be busy doing God's work, but one day we will rest from our labors, and those saints will rest from their labors.
I agree none are justified by the works of the Law, yet it does not even mention the Law or justification, also what it is quoting "do not harden your hearts" is about rebellion of not doing what the Creator said:
The Law for justification is not mentioned here, but the whole epistle is about that issue. This ties in with Heb 3:12: Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

What was this unbelief? Not resting in the finished work of Christ, but seeking to revive the observances of the Law of Moses.

Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised)... Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle... [and the Old covenant] Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation...

 
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Mar 28, 2016
15,957
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#53
Can you quote verses how one can “rest” in Him? Do we have to do His will or is that optional?


Revelation 14:13, “And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me: Write:Blessed are the dead, the ones dying in the Messiah from now on! Yes, says the Spirit: because they will rest from their labors, and their works do follow them!”
I would offer…It becomes confusing because someone violated the principle found in Deuteronomy 4 in so much that we are not to add to a word( singular) another meaning. It could cause plagiarism by the father of lies and make it about flesh and blood, the things of men

Somehow the word Sabbath which is simply means rest with no other meaning added... someone decided to make it into a time sensitive word in arguing about a ceremonial law as a shadow of the eternal rest we will receive when we receive our new incorruptible bodies . Until that happens every time day and night, week days and week ends as long at today is today every time we do not harden our hearts in unbelief at the hearing of His word we have entered that rest .It comes along with our daily bread our comfort food .

Study the phrase: "not being mixed with faith in them that heard it". Its the key to entering His Sabbath he is our rest or city of refuge As His city prepared as His eternal bride the church .

Hebrews 4 King James Version (KJV)
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear
his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief......(no faith)


 
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beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
332
83
#54
Mat 24, Revelation and the prophets tell us the coming things. Revelation gives very detailed breakdown of what will happen in the endtimes.

I have studied the entire word, and given focus to end times prophecy ffrom Genesis to Rvelation:

Genesis 49:1-2,1 And Ya‛aqoḇ called his sons and said, “Gather together, so that I declare to you what is to befall you in the last days:"2 “Gather together and hear, you sons of Ya‛aqoḇ, and listen to Yisra’ĕl your father."

Revelation 1:1-2, “Revelation of יהושע Messiah, which יהוה gave Him to show His servants what has to take place with speed. And He signified it by sending His messenger to His servant Yoḥanan, who bore witness to the Word of יהוה, and the witness of יהושע Messiah – to all he saw."

Mat
"24:32, "“And learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that the summer is near.




"24:33, "“So you also, when you see all these, know that He is near, at the doors.


"24:36, "“But concerning that day and the hour no one knows, not even the messengers of the heavens, but My Father only




"24:42, "“Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Master is coming."

He gave us signs to look for and told us to watch BECAUSE we don;t know exactly when, why do you think all this prophecy is given and we are told to watch? Because we are supposed to ignore it?



Amos 3v7 Surely the Lord God will do nothing 'but he reveals his secret unto his servants the prophets.
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
107
63
#55
Mat 24, Revelation and the prophets tell us the coming things. Revelation gives very detailed breakdown of what will happen in the endtimes.

I have studied the entire word, and given focus to end times prophecy ffrom Genesis to Rvelation:
Pity Mark 13:32 contradicts you then!
Obviously you are not studying hard enough....

But then again all cults think they can predict Christ's return so you are in good (I mean bad) company there!
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#56
LOL indeed.

clever analogies over the written Word...
There is nothing wrong with analogies to help explain the meaning of what someone is saying. Jesus used parables.

It's sad you don't understand what was being said.

The question is do you worship the Creator or the Creation?

God or statues of God?

Why can't you understand that the weekly sabbath are like statues that are set up in memory of the 7th day of creation?

It's a simple concept and if you took a moment to pray, you Would probably get what is being said and agree instead of argue.
 
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A

Ariel82

Guest
#57
"Nehemiah6" did a fine job explaining the verses of Hebrews 4 so I'll let those stand and go on to answer your question, paraphrased - "would seeking to obey God's commands be working for salvation in my eyes?" In short, no. First, we must understand what a covenant relationship is. Often times we think of this like a contract where one party promises one thing if the other party promises to do another. (think of buying a car: you will give me a car IF I give you so much money). The contract does nothing to change us, in fact, it comes between us because the terms of the deal are clearly defined. This is not a covenant. In a covenant relationship, the very definition of the parties changes. Think of Abram/Abraham in Genesis 15-17.

In the context of salvation - and this is where I believe most Christians get it wrong - salvation is not a contract, it is a covenant. The very nature of my being changes. I'm no longer a 'me', I'm a 'we' because Christ is in me. As a result, when it comes to keeping God's commandments, it's not because I HAVE to obey them to be accepted by Him but rather, because of the love that I have for Him I WANT to obey them. This is not me working to obtain any "greater salvation or reward" but working to please my Father and nothing more. As someone once said, "there is nothing you can do to make God love you any less; and nothing you can do to make Him love you any more."
It's not a bill of sale, or contract for work....the New Covenant is adoption papers into God's family. It changes who we are and we will be given New names written on white stones.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
22,467
11,159
113
56
#58
Eisgesis.....adding the requirement to keep the Sabbath to a message about the future promise of ceasing from all work and abiding in Christ

*****
Hebrews 4:9 Greek Text Analysis

Bible > Greek > Hebrews 4:9
◄ Hebrews 4:9 ►
The argument is that the Greek word "sabbatismos" means that there is Sabbath keeping that remains for the Christian. Notice that the Greek word "sabbatismos" is used no where else in the Bible! Amazing that Sabbatarians would suggest that this is the word for "keeping the weekly Sabbath" when it is never used anywhere else, in spite of the many references to Jews keeping the weekly Sabbath in the New Testament!

W. E. Vine, Greek Dictionary on "Rest" proves the Sabbatarian argument wrong:

A2. KATAPAUSIS (2663), in classical Greek, denotes a causing to cease or putting to rest; in the N.T., rest, repose; it is used (a) of God's rest, Acts 7:49; Heb. 3:11, 18; 4:1, 3 (twice), R.V. (1st part), "that rest" (the A.V., "rest," is ambiguous), 5, 11; (b) in a general statement, applicable to God and man, 4:10.

A4. SABBATISMOS (4520), a Sabbath-keeping, is used in Heb. 4:9, R.V., "a Sabbath rest," A.V. marg., "a keeping of a Sabbath" (akin to sabbatizoµ, to keep the Sabbath, used, e.g., in Ex. 16:30, not in the N.T.); here the Sabbath-keeping is the perpetual Sabbath rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with the Father and the Son, in contrast to the weekly Sabbath under the Law.

Because this Sabbath rest is the rest of God Himself, 4:10, its full fruition is yet future, though believers now enter into it. In whatever way they enter into Divine rest, that which they enjoy is involved in an indissoluble relation with God.

Hebrews 4:9, we read - So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

*So here the Sabbath rest is the perpetual rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with Jesus Christ, in contrast to keeping the weekly seventh day Sabbath under the Law. :)
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
#59
The argument is that the Greek word "sabbatismos" means that there is Sabbath keeping that remains for the Christian. Notice that the Greek word "sabbatismos" is used no where else in the Bible! Amazing that Sabbatarians would suggest that this is the word for "keeping the weekly Sabbath" when it is never used anywhere else, in spite of the many references to Jews keeping the weekly Sabbath in the New Testament!

W. E. Vine, Greek Dictionary on "Rest" proves the Sabbatarian argument wrong:

A2. KATAPAUSIS (2663), in classical Greek, denotes a causing to cease or putting to rest; in the N.T., rest, repose; it is used (a) of God's rest, Acts 7:49; Heb. 3:11, 18; 4:1, 3 (twice), R.V. (1st part), "that rest" (the A.V., "rest," is ambiguous), 5, 11; (b) in a general statement, applicable to God and man, 4:10.

A4. SABBATISMOS (4520), a Sabbath-keeping, is used in Heb. 4:9, R.V., "a Sabbath rest," A.V. marg., "a keeping of a Sabbath" (akin to sabbatizoµ, to keep the Sabbath, used, e.g., in Ex. 16:30, not in the N.T.); here the Sabbath-keeping is the perpetual Sabbath rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with the Father and the Son, in contrast to the weekly Sabbath under the Law.

Because this Sabbath rest is the rest of God Himself, 4:10, its full fruition is yet future, though believers now enter into it. In whatever way they enter into Divine rest, that which they enjoy is involved in an indissoluble relation with God.

Hebrews 4:9, we read - So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

*So here the Sabbath rest is the perpetual rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with Jesus Christ, in contrast to keeping the weekly seventh day Sabbath under the Law. :)
I agree Hebrews 4 is about a continual Sabbath remaining, that has been the main point of this thread, I beleive the continual Sabbath is eternal life in the Kingdom:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 14:13, “And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me: Write: Blessed are the dead, the ones dying in the Messiah from now on! Yes, says the Spirit: because they will rest from their labors, and their works do follow them!”

why will the dead in Messiah rest?

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 21:3-4, "And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of YHWH is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and YHWH Himself will be with them, and be their Father. And YHWH will wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there will be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, nor will there be any more pain, for the former things have passed away.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
#60
There is nothing wrong with analogies to help explain the meaning of what someone is saying. Jesus used parables.

It's sad you don't understand what was being said.

The question is do you worship the Creator or the Creation?

God or statues of God?

Why can't you understand that the weekly sabbath are like statues that are set up in memory of the 7th day of creation?

It's a simple concept and if you took a moment to pray, you Would probably get what is being said and agree instead of argue.
I t hink you are misunderstanding me? hAVE i UOTED THESE VERSES MULTIPLE TIMES THAT SHOW THE 7TH DAY sABBATH IS REMEMBERANCE OF THE 7TH DAY OF CREATION:

SO the 7th day of creation has nothing to do with the 7th day Sabbath?

Genesis 2:1-3, “Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their array. And in the seventh day the Mighty One completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made. And the Mighty One blessed the seventh day and set it apart, because on it He rested from all His work which the Mighty One in creating had made.”

Exodus 20:8-11, “Remember the Sabbath day, to set it apart." Six days you labor, and shall do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of יהוה your Mighty One. You do not do any work – you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days יהוה made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore יהוה blessed the Sabbath day and set it apart.”
My point is that it looks back to the 7th day of creation and forward to the 1,000 reigin of Messiah..