What is the Messianic Kingdom?

[eternally-gratefull]

The Roman empire is the fourth kingdom.

the roman army was seen as two kingdoms

1. The iron.. taking over the first three kingdoms and destroying them,l and holding great power. ruled by one king
2. iron/clay.. taking over the whole world. not one king, but ten,, three destroyed by one, and the rest of the seven giving their power to the beast.. but a splintered kingdom all the same (which is why it will only hold power for a short time, unlike the iron kingdom, which held power for hundreds of years)

That kingdom is also a type of Satan's kingdom.

why are we going back to types? Daniel told the king (these things will happen, let it be so) so why are you trying to symbolise literal things daniels said via the word of God given him would literally take place? i don't get it!!

The prophecy of the fourth kingdom Rome has been fulfilled.

yep it has, it was fulfilled when it crumpled years after the death of Christ and the destruction of jerusalem.

still waiting on the second part (iron/clay) it has not been fulfilled yet..

The fifth kingdom is the kingdom of the Messiah, is not a symbol and will be built on the ruins of the sinful empires of man, and it will fill the world (Da 2:35).

yes, you are correct. but

1. You skipped the actual 5th kingdom (iron/clay)
2. You fail to realise, the kingdom you are speaking of has yet to come into existance (built on ruined empires of men, to rule the whole world) when did this happen? look at all th egentile kingdoms which ruled since ad 70.. who had NOTHING to do with God..

It is forever (Da 2:44), set up during the Roman empire, and allows for no other Messianic kingdom.

yet the final roman kingdom has yet to be revealed.. thus the eternal kingdom could not have come yet..

as I said, the roman kingdom in jesus day, and the one who destroyed jerusalem, was the iron kingdom, not the iron and clay. if christ destroyed that with his death and ressurection, he sure took along time to destroy that kingdom when he was done, it lived under the same power for many many years after christ left this earth..

if this is a fulfillment, God must have messed up!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

are you alright?

yes, I am fine.

when God says forever, he means it

When he says I have eternal life, I have it (unless god lied)

when he says I give you and your descendants after you, as an eternal inheritance. They have it forever. Unless god lied..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

where is that described in scripture?
the place Jesus will sit on David's Throne?

The throne was promised to the line of david

any king sitting on the throne over Isreal was "sitting on davids throne"

2 sam 7: [SUP]16 [/SUP]Your house and your kingdom shall endure before [SUP][e][/SUP]Me forever; your throne shall be established forever.”’”

and repeated again later.

Ez 37: 24 “My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd; and they will walk in My ordinances and keep My statutes and observe them. 25 They will live on the land that I gave to Jacob My servant, in which your fathers lived; and they will live on it, they, and their sons and their sons’ sons, forever; and David My servant will be their prince forever. 26 I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will [h]place them and multiply them, and will set My sanctuary in their midst forever. 27 My dwelling place also will be with them; and I will be their God, and they will be My people. 28 And the nations will know that I am the Lord who sanctifies Israel, when My sanctuary is in their midst forever.”’”

who is this? King david come back from the grave?

 

[zone]

yes, I am fine.

when God says forever, he means it

When he says I have eternal life, I have it (unless god lied)

when he says I give you and your descendants after you, as an eternal inheritance. They have it forever. Unless god lied..

unless you intend to repent of calling unclean (gentiles) what God has called clean (Acts/Pentecost/Eternal Purpose/Mystery), and propping up the wall He already tore down through your personalized dispensationalism which is manifesting as barbarism for Israel, i don't really have anything to say to you.

you're on the other side of a chasm as far as i'm concerned.

you stated plainly yesterday God intends to ethnically cleanse Palestine and reserve it for Jews (for eternity?)

we already have enough apostates aiding that.
i'm not friends with people who continue to do it.
i tried for years to have you see the fruit of your beliefs.

but you said it plain as day yesterday, and my convictions don't allow for it.
sorry EG.
if you change your mind, i'm willing to be friends again.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

they're working on that.
as we speak.

what a Loving God we serve, eh?

why thank you Zone, You just proved I was right, and they do not have the land.

Also. God said he would give it to them, not that they would take it like they are doing now.. so it is obvious they are still not following God and according to Lev 26, will not have peace., or gain all their land back. because they are still in sin..

Loving God? how hypocritical of you. You think God is putting them back in their land? OT prophesies does not say it will happen that way, And God is not into what they are doing.,

if you would stop hating darbyism so much and listen to what I was trying to say, you might actually see I do not believe most of what you think I believe!

 

[Elin]

You want to continue to go here. After I proved to you from scripture, That God told abraham WHEN HE GAVE HIM THE LAND.

Are you setting Scripture against Scripture?

What part are you not understanding about:

1) God promised land to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob personally, not just to their descendants.

2) None of them ever possessed or lived in the land they personally were promised, only their descendants lived in the land.

Do you disagree with Scripture in Ac 7:5 that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob never actually possessed, owned a foot of ground there?

Please present a Scripture where the promise to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob personally of possession of land actually occurred.

What are you not getting regarding the facts here presented in Scripture?

See my thread on "The Land Promise" for presentation and resolution of 1) and 2).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The fourth kingdom Rome was one kingdom until it fell.

Then it was ten kingdoms.

That was the end of the fourth kingdom.

That is what Daniel prophesied, and that is what happened.

oh it was, then riddle me this.

out of those ten,, which one destroyed three of the others?

which of the seven gave supreme control of their kingdoms to the one John called the beast, and daniel called the little horn?

when did this reformed roman kingdom which came out of the ten gain control of the whole earth (every nation tribe and tongue as daniel and John said it would?

when did the whole world worship this new kingdom ruled by the beast?

when did this beast gain control of all finances, and force everyone to use a mark to buy or sell anything?

when you interpret prophesy, you do not take ONE part and say it is fulfilled. ALL parts must be fulfilled in order for the prophesy to be said to be complete..

even if their were ten nations. you have to prove the rest happened, i just named a few hear. can you show me where those things happened? then we can go over the rest of what daniel and john said owuld happen with this ten king kingdom rules by the beast/little horn..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

for this reason, you and i are no longer friends, EG.

why because I asked you questions?? Scripture said when Isreal is returned, all the things i asked you would happen... so why would I not ask those questions, and why would you not ask them yourself?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It's one beast and one kingdom.

Each beast is one kingdom.

Daniel interprets the iron and clay of the fourth kingdom in 2:43.[/B][/COLOR]

no actually he does not.

[SUP]40 [/SUP]Then there will be a fourth kingdom as strong as iron; inasmuch as iron crushes and shatters all things, so, like iron that breaks in pieces, it will crush and break all these in pieces.

this is one kingdom.

[SUP]41 [/SUP]In that you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, it will be a divided kingdom;

this is the fifth kingdom. He said the feet and toes were a kingdom of its own. they are not the same kingdom

 

[eternally-gratefull]

My mistake.

I meant 1Kgs 4:21, 24-25 under Solomon when they completely inhabited the land after fully possessing it under Joshua 21:43-45.

This is addressed in the thread "The Land Promise" which I just opened.

It can't.

This has massive ramification. If God gave them the land completely where they possed it.. then he was done, even though he called it an eternal covenant. then we are in trouble.

God gave me eternal life the moment I believed. If that means God fulfilled it., and he can take it away and it is no longer valid..

well you see the danger of saying Gods promise which he calls eternal are not eternal at all.. As long as he did it one time, it is enough.. eternity last forever, it does not end..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The kingdom that was a mixture of iron and clay was the apostate Roman/Jewish Hellenized kingdom of Israel, which Jesus did destroy. It has happened.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

oh so now your saying that the jewish kingdom ruled the whole world?? wow.. we keep changing things over and over don't we?

I ask you the same questions I asked a few posts ago.. when did this "hellenistic jewish" kingdom take place after the full power of rome fell apart?

 

[zone]

why because I asked you questions?? Scripture said when Isreal is returned, all the things i asked you would happen... so why would I not ask those questions, and why would you not ask them yourself?

they are back in the land?

they are living in peace?

they have no enemies?

And the land is completely theres and not mixed with gentiles?

wow, when did this happen?

PUKE.....that's why.

now it's all cleared up between us.
no need to address me personally anymore unless you straighten out that monstrous ideology.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

unless you intend to repent of calling unclean (gentiles) what God has called clean (Acts/Pentecost/Eternal Purpose/Mystery), and propping up the wall He already tore down through your personalized dispensationalism which is manifesting as barbarism for Israel, i don't really have anything to say to you.

well i will be honest with you. as long as you continue to misrepresent me. Continue to ignore what I say, OCntinue to claim i believe something I do not.. Then I want nothing to do with you. Your no better than the catholics or arminians who are pre-programed what people believe, and if one believes in one thing, then they all must believe the same perverted stuff.

Barbarialism?? you have not hear a word I said,, not one iota. You are so stuck in your hate for darbysim and what ever other form of dispensationalism you hate, you are blinded to what anyone else believes, even though youhave been told OVER AND OVER we do not believe this way, you continue to say we do.

if thats the way your going to be.. so be it!

you're on the other side of a chasm as far as i'm concerned.

you stated plainly yesterday God intends to ethnically cleanse Palestine and reserve it for Jews (for eternity?)

Oh I did? where did I say this? i said God would not give the jews their land back UNTIL THEY REPENT. which will not be until God destroys the final gentile kingdom at his return. in which God destroys all non believers, and the only ones left are believers (he who endures to the end will be saved'

do you honestly believe God was talking about eternal life here?

we already have enough apostates aiding that.
i'm not friends with people who continue to do it.
i tried for years to have you see the fruit of your beliefs.

but you said it plain as day yesterday, and my convictions don't allow for it.
sorry EG.
if you change your mind, i'm willing to be friends again.

we can;t be friends if you mind is completely shut because of the hate you have for whatever it is that pissed you off. As long as you continue to refuse to listen to a word I say without blinders on.. You will continue to hear what you want to hear. and hear nothing about what I am actually saying.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Are you setting Scripture against Scripture?

What part are you not understanding about:

1) God promised land to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob personally, not just to their descendants.

2) None of them ever possessed or lived in the land they personally were promised, only their descendants lived in the land.

Do you disagree with Scripture in Ac 7:5 that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob never actually possessed, owned a foot of ground there?

Please present a Scripture where the promise to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob personally of possession of land actually occurred.

What are you not getting regarding the facts here presented in Scripture?

See my thread on "The Land Promise" for presentation and resolution of 1) and 2).

wow.. GOD TOLD ABRAHAM HE AND HIS DESCENDANTS FOR 400 YEARS WOULD NOT POSSESS IT. THAT ABRAHAM WOULD DIE HAVING NEVER OWNED EVEN PART OF THE LAND IN IT.

and you want to continue to argue??

there is no discussion if you are going to call god a liar.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

PUKE.....that's why.

now it's all cleared up between us.
no need to address me personally anymore unless you straighten out that monstrous ideology.

lol.. The dome of the rock.. why is it there?

Why is isreal not in full control of all jerusalem?

IT MUST BE BECAUSE THE CURSE STILL STANDS,, GENTILE ARE STILL MAKING AN ABOMINATION OF THE CITY

this is what I mean that you listen with blinders. You have heard me more than enough say in daniel 9 that from the time of the destruction until the time of restoration, there will be a continual abomination of the city by gentiles..

which is what i referenced.

instead you twist what i said.

as I said, if that is the way you are going to be so be it!

 

[Abiding]

Originally Posted by Abiding

1Peter 1: 10 As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful search and inquiry, 11 seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you, in these things which now have been announced to you through those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things into which angels long to look.

Hosea 12:10 I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.

Eze 17:2 Son of man, put forth a riddle, and speak a parable unto the house of Israel;



hey bro.. not sure what you wanted these passages to mean.

how do these prove that the literal gentile kingdoms spoken of by daniel which would hold power on earth should be symbolized, and not taken literally?







This was just my comment when you said something like all scripture was fulfilled literally
And that it was clear. I dont agree that porphesy is clear. It can be after the fact.

 

[Elin]

the roman army was seen as two kingdoms

Seen by whom?

You keep going round and round the same bush.

This was addressed here and here.

 

[Abiding]

yes, I am fine.

when God says forever, he means it

When he says I have eternal life, I have it (unless god lied)

when he says I give you and your descendants after you, as an eternal inheritance. They have it forever. Unless god lied..

EG what do you do with the many "forevers" and "eternals" in the Old testament that ceased
when that "age: was complete? Like in 70ad. Things like the Temple commands, the priesthood etc.
From memory i think i found near a dozen forevers and eternals that are no more.

 

[Abiding]

It can't.

This has massive ramification. If God gave them the land completely where they possed it.. then he was done, even though he called it an eternal covenant. then we are in trouble.

God gave me eternal life the moment I believed. If that means God fulfilled it., and he can take it away and it is no longer valid..

well you see the danger of saying Gods promise which he calls eternal are not eternal at all.. As long as he did it one time, it is enough.. eternity last forever, it does not end..

Question? And this has "massive ramifications" Is the Aaronic Priesthood Eternal?
Yikes i think i see your eternal salvation slipping away

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Question? And this has "massive ramifications" Is the Aaronic Priesthood Eternal?
Yikes i think i see your eternal salvation slipping away

why would you say this? the arronic priesthood was never given to me. or any of us.. now was it??

also.. does the arronic preisthood still exist, or have power?? did it fulfill its purpose as long as it was in existance?

and finally/. is the land of canaan still exist?