What is the minimum beliefs needed to be a Christian

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phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
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#61
Bad hermeneutics to make a doctrine out of one Scripture verse - Psalm 51:5

Studied this in Hebrew this year, and it comes out a bit differently - and certainly not enough evidence to make a doctrine out of. That being said, I am willing to be convinced there is original sin, as I have been taught all my life.

Although personally, I don't really care if there is Original Sin or not. We all sin and fall short of the glory of God. We all need Jesus Christ as a Saviour. Whether it started at the Fall, or early in our lifetimes. So Original Sin is probably not a necessary belief to be a Christian.

Hi Angela,

The hermeneutic is not from one scripture, I thought you may have noticed that by reading my post?

Yes there are many Hebrew 'Scholars' who would disagree with you.

You see in order to believe you can earn your salvation requires there to be no original sin, original sin does not mean that you have sinned as soon as you are born.. I am sure most seminarys would atleast teach that?
 
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Huckleberry

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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#62
Genesis 8
21 And when the Lord smelled the pleasing aroma, the Lord said in his heart, “I will never again curse[a] the ground because of man, for the intention of man's heart is evil from his childbirth. Neither will I ever again strike down every living creature as I have done.
Even the link in your supposed verse doesn't use the word "childbirth", not even in the foot notes.
Where did you pull that out of? Yourear?
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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#63
Hi Angela,

The hermeneutic is not from one scripture, I thought you may have noticed that by reading my post?

Yes there are many Hebrew 'Scholars' who would disagree with you.

You see in order to believe you can earn your salvation requires there to be no original sin, original sin does not mean that you have sinned as soon as you are born.. I am sure most seminarys would atleast teach that?
You only posted one verse. And I am wondering from my post how you could possibly have read that I think original sin is sinning early in life? I believe that is the sin we do and is accounted against us, unless we follow Christ. From what ever age one knows right from wrong.

Original sin is the sin we purportedly inherit, ancestral sin resulting from Adam's rebellion in the Garden of Eden. My issue is whether Original sin is true, since I took Hebrew, and our prof talked a lot about Psalm 51:5, as we studied the whole psalm.

Psalm 51:5 is one of the big verses used to support Original Sin. What if that verse was because David's mom conceived him illegitimately? That would make him "conceived in sin." Which is the exact wording in Hebrew, I might add.

In fact, the concept wasn't even alluded till till Irenaeus in the 2nd century. Not that it makes it wrong or right. Perhaps a new thread could discuss this. I sit on the fence with this issue.

But I will point out as a former teacher, Phil, that "seminaries" is the correct English spelling of the word. Change the "y" to "i" and add "es". Just saying. Of course, I didn't learn that in Seminary, probably somewhere in grade 4 or 5 English!
 
Aug 5, 2013
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#64
Jesus would NEVER keep secret the way to salvation.In reference to the the answer about commandments, the question posed to Him was "What are the greatest commandments?"
That's a different part of the gospels. You ought to have checked the reference. Here it is again. It begins with:

As [Jesus] was setting out on a journey, a man ran up to Him and knelt before Him, and asked Him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
 
Aug 5, 2013
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#66
The commandments follows belief. By the way when you read the story of the rich man about giving all his possessions away, you will notice the man asked Jesus "what good thing must I do to receive eternal life" instead of "how should one receive eternal life".
My reply is exactly the same as the one above in response to psalm6819 -- you ought to have checked the reference. It doesn't say what you think it does... the rich young ruler literally asked "what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"
 
Aug 5, 2013
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#67
The whole old and new testament talks about the promise of the messiah, Abraham had faith in the promise and it was counted to him for righteousness and Jesus often spoke of faith...
...but he didn't speak of faith when asked about how one attains eternal life, which is pretty important.

While I don't think it's really relevant about whether the "whole old... testament talks about the promise of the messiah", you ought to know better. I certainly do.
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#68
You only posted one verse. And I am wondering from my post how you could possibly have read that I think original sin is sinning early in life? I believe that is the sin we do and is accounted against us, unless we follow Christ. From what ever age one knows right from wrong.

Original sin is the sin we purportedly inherit, ancestral sin resulting from Adam's rebellion in the Garden of Eden. My issue is whether Original sin is true, since I took Hebrew, and our prof talked a lot about Psalm 51:5, as we studied the whole psalm.

Psalm 51:5 is one of the big verses used to support Original Sin. What if that verse was because David's mom conceived him illegitimately? That would make him "conceived in sin." Which is the exact wording in Hebrew, I might add.

In fact, the concept wasn't even alluded till till Irenaeus in the 2nd century. Not that it makes it wrong or right. Perhaps a new thread could discuss this. I sit on the fence with this issue.
Original Sin is based more on headship than it is on Psalm 51:5.

But I will point out as a former teacher, Phil, that "seminaries" is the correct English spelling of the word. Change the "y" to "i" and add "es". Just saying. Of course, I didn't learn that in Seminary, probably somewhere in grade 4 or 5 English!

 
Feb 17, 2010
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#70
Minimum requirement to be Christian = God's FAITH IN YOU.... Not yours in HIM, HIS IN YOU!

Only if GOD has FAITH IN YOU, YOU ARE HIS CHILD!.... For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.


 
I

in2it

Guest
#71
You only posted one verse. And I am wondering from my post how you could possibly have read that I think original sin is sinning early in life? I believe that is the sin we do and is accounted against us, unless we follow Christ. From what ever age one knows right from wrong.

Original sin is the sin we purportedly inherit, ancestral sin resulting from Adam's rebellion in the Garden of Eden. My issue is whether Original sin is true, since I took Hebrew, and our prof talked a lot about Psalm 51:5, as we studied the whole psalm.

Psalm 51:5 is one of the big verses used to support Original Sin. What if that verse was because David's mom conceived him illegitimately? That would make him "conceived in sin." Which is the exact wording in Hebrew, I might add.
I was taught that we didn't inherit sin but that we have to live with the consequences of Adam and Eves sin.

For example: If my mother was a drug addict and basically neglected me as a child, at some point in my life I would suffer the consequences of her sins. That in no way qualifies me for repeating her behavior.

We should all take responsibility for our own sins.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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#72
I would also like to point out that my Texan Southern Baptist professor did not tell us to believe or not believe in Original Sin. He actually said it was a hard case to prove in Hebraic thinking using Psalm 51:5, and had some very good reasons. Sadly I cannot remember them all, and my notes are put away. I still have the actual transcriptions from Hebrew, but not the notes.

His big reason for telling us this, was so that we would "think" and also search the scriptures. That is one of the purposes of Seminary - to make you think and search. I know that thinking through all my doctrine really helped reinforce my faith. It is also the reason I enjoy this forum so much.

Some people come in here with pure garbage, such as Mary worship, and because I know it is not in the Bible at all, I can throw it out. Others come in here with doctrines I have not heard about, and I can learn, and make a decision based not just on what I read here, but what the Word of God says. Preferably not Scripture torn out of context or mistranslated.

Finally, there are people coming here who directly contradict the Word of God, on things that to me are a necessity (such as the divinity of Christ). It sharpens me to read and to enter into the discussion. Whether these heretics are convinced is another issue. But maybe some people who did not know or understand have learned from the discussion from the many people who have very strong doctrine and who have really searched the Scriptures.

Which is really what this post is about. What is essential to believe as a Christian, and what is unnecessary? Maybe a post for each item, except the ones that already have over 100 threads on them?

And no, Jimmie, not rustled at all! Just enjoying thinking out loud and wondering what others have learned on the topic of Original Sin, from their reading of the Bible.
 

Nautilus

Senior Member
Jun 29, 2012
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#73
meh an innate trait that probably is a subconscious reaction in infants who wouldnt even begin to understand concepts such as god, or lying does not seem like it would equate to the same thing as lying. At least not as far as the sin goes. Especially when its compared to animals who dont even posess souls or rationality.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#74
people do understand that original sin, and man being born with a sin nature are the same? We are all born "apart from God" are we not? If we are "apart from God," what does that say about our nature?
 
Aug 5, 2013
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#75
Minimum requirement to be Christian = God's FAITH IN YOU.... Not yours in HIM, HIS IN YOU!

Only if GOD has FAITH IN YOU, YOU ARE HIS CHILD!.... For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.


Why would an omniscient being need faith? What could be "unseen" to someone who sees everything?
 
Feb 17, 2010
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#76
Faith is a GIFT of God! Only if God gives you that faith, you are HIS! Jesus said to the disciples... If you had FAITH the size of a mustard seed, you would..... So even the least bit of FAITH GOD GIVES a person makes that person A GIFT RECEIVER of GOD! God does not NEED the faith, WE DO! IF we do not get the gift of faith from God, we cannot be His Children!
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#77
...but he didn't speak of faith when asked about how one attains eternal life, which is pretty important.

While I don't think it's really relevant about whether the "whole old... testament talks about the promise of the messiah", you ought to know better. I certainly do.
[video=youtube;LBSRiwy4T7k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBSRiwy4T7k&list=TLC-ZJazpkN1--0g78PhgUZ0HvajVMyy2_[/video]

excuse me, starcrash:)
i thought you were an atheist here to challenge our beliefs and your own. which is fine.
so why are you posting jews for judaism videos which deny Jesus is the Christ?

is it that you believe them, in their denial based on their readings (= unbelief)?
please clarify. are you an adherent of judaism?
t.y. zone
 

Drett

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2013
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#78
I was surprised to see this thread about minimum beliefs needed to be a Christian. I don't quite know the train of thought, but it appears that you present doctrinal beliefs outside of true Christian beliefs, and it's good that you clarified that. In my estimation however, if one seeks the acceptance of God on the premise of minimal beliefs, they are not one of His children. I would also say the one principle belief one must have, is to die to the flesh, and sincerely ask God to kill the carnal man inside us all (every day, continuously).

1 Corinthians 15:31 (KJV)

[SUP]31 [/SUP]I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

Then the carnal is replaced by the Spiritual man.

Luke 9:23-24 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.
Hi Just-Me

I have an interest in different religions. Discussions like these I learn a lot about different aspects of Christianity.
 
S

Saved_Forever

Guest
#79
Hi Just-Me

I have an interest in different religions. Discussions like these I learn a lot about different aspects of Christianity.
May I ask why you are so interested in Christianity? I know your original belief is Islam. Are you just interested in the aspects of Christianity or are you doing some soul searching? I kinda like to know what your train of thought is on this one.
 
Jul 25, 2013
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#80
...but he didn't speak of faith when asked about how one attains eternal life, which is pretty important.

While I don't think it's really relevant about whether the "whole old... testament talks about the promise of the messiah", you ought to know better. I certainly do.
Actually Jesus did speak of faith to the rich man, you just don't want to open your mind to understanding. What do you think Jesus is telling him? He is saying, take your Idol, your god, your money, your riches, and sell it all and give it to the poor and then you just acquired faith by that act to have real treasures in heaven. The man plainly didn't have faith to believe Jesus at his Word and Jesus knew it and so did the rich man plain and simple. Understand now?