What Is/Was The Light?

[WebersHome]

-
In the April 2014 edition of Discover magazine, astrophysicist/cosmologist
Avi Loeb states that the Bible attributes the appearance of stars and galaxies
to the divine proclamation "Let there be light". Is Mr. Loeb's statement
correct? No; of course not. God created light on the very first day of
creation; while luminous celestial objects weren't created until the fourth.

The Bible is notoriously concise in some places; especially in it's story of the
creation of light. Well; the creation of light was an intricate process. First
God had to create particulate matter, and along with those particles their
specific properties, including mass. Then He had to invent laws to govern
how matter behaves in combination with and/or in the presence of, other
kinds of matter in order to generate photons. The same laws that make it
possible for matter to generate photons also make other conditions possible
too; e.g. thermodynamics, fusion, dark energy, gravity, atoms, molecules,
magnetism, radiation, high energy X-rays and gamma rays, temperature,
pressure, force, inertia, friction, and electricity; et al. So the creation of light
was a pretty big deal; yet Genesis scarcely gives its origin passing mention.

†. Gen 1:1-2 . .The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the
surface of the deep

That statement reveals the cosmos' condition prior to the creation of light;
and no mystery there because sans the physics that make light possible, the
cosmos' particulate matter would never have coalesced into something
coherent.

2Cor 4:6 verifies that light wasn't introduced into the cosmos from outside in
order to dispel the darkness and brighten things up a bit; but rather, it
radiated out of the cosmos from inside-- from itself --indicating that the
cosmos was created to be self-illuminating by means of the various
interactions of the matter that God made for it; including, but not limited to,
the Higgs Boson.

Some Bible students regard science an enemy of religion; but I sincerely
believe that is a bad attitude to take towards science. Galileo believed that
religion and science are allies rather than enemies-- two different languages
telling the same story. Religion provides answers to questions that science
cannot answer, while science provides answers to questions that religion
doesn't answer.

1Tim 6:20 commands Christ's followers to avoid "science-- falsely so-called".
However, not all science is false. Previous to what we might call the modern
era, many scientific ideas were theoretical and largely untested. And
therefore subsequently proven largely false. But that all began to change as
men begin making, not ideas, but discoveries; and discoveries are far more
reliable than untested ideas.

There are well-meaning folk who prefer to keep science out of the first
chapter of Genesis. I truly believe that is an error because though the
cosmos has a supernatural origin, it is not a supernatural cosmos; rather, it
is a very natural cosmos and the creation story makes better sense, at least
to me anyway, when it's approached from that angle.

===================================

 

[granpa]

micro organisms were created on the fourth day

 

[dcontroversal]

God is the lofty one who inhabits eternity and by his very nature is eternal, has always been, will always be....

God IS (BE VERB) LIGHT and DWELLS in light...

Could it also be that God, in saying let there be light, was his first act in creation to begin to reveal HIMSELF and HIS glory to the creation that he was bringing into existence?

 

[crossnote]

His Word is Light. As soon as He spoke there was Light!

Genesis 1:3 And God said (spoke), Let there be light: and there was light.

 

[posthuman]

in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth

according to big-bang models (in a very general sense, models in which the entire universe was created in one moment, in one place), in the beginning everything was a sort of "soup" of fundamental particles and energy. this would have been very dense, and not at all solid in any part, because of the extreme temperature and pressures. so hot at first, that photons could not have existed at all in the very beginning (light was not yet created) and so dense, that when the universe expanded and cooled to the point a photon could exist, it could not travel even a planck-length (the smallest possible measurable distance, according to quantum theory) without hitting another particle -- that is, the universe was not transparent to light.
modern science implies that in the beginning , the world was a dark, dense and formless sea of high-energy matter and radiation. there was no light.

The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep.
And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

as the universe continued to cool and expand, there should have been a moment in "time" - the "clock" having begun at the moment of creation - when the density of all that is reached such a level that photons were now able to travel a measurable distance (search astrophysics literature for "mean-free-path of photons" and "recombination"). for the first time, at a single identifiable time, the universe became "transparent" to photons - that is to say, physically, before this time, there was no "light" and then after this time, there was "light"

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

at this point, for the first time in the history of the universe, mass and energy, light and darkness became distinguishable from each other. physically speaking, in terms of what big-bang cosmology predicts.

And God saw that the light was good.
And God separated the light from the darkness.

models these days rely on a thing physicists call "hyperinflation" - that the universe must have expanded in the early universe at a speed faster than the speed of light (otherwise, there would be no darkness, every part of the universe being reachable in spacetime by this early light - which should have been at first everywhere, at once - which is not the case, as when we look up into the night sky, it is dark, and light and darkness are separated). without hyperinflation (which is necessary for the physics for other reasons than this as well) there could be no darkness, no night.

God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night.
And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.

 

[crossnote]

Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

 

[WebersHome]

Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by
the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things
which do appear.

The Bible tells me that God did it; but the Bible doesn't tell me how God did
it. For that information, I look to science.

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[crossnote]

The Bible tells me that God did it; but the Bible doesn't tell me how God did
it. For that information, I look to science.

===========================================

The bible does tell you how God did it...you're just not listening.

Genesis 1:3, 6, 9, 11, 14, 20, 26
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.


Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

 

[crossnote]

The bible does tell you how God did it...you're just not listening.

Genesis 1:3, 6, 9, 11, 14, 20, 26
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.


Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

The bible says 'how', science only attempts to describe the after effects of the 'how'.

 

[sealchan]

I like what Gerald Schroeder has written on this topic:

The Science of God: The Convergence of Scientific and Biblical Wisdom | Gerald Schroeder

 

[JesusistheChrist]

God is the lofty one who inhabits eternity and by his very nature is eternal, has always been, will always be....

God IS (BE VERB) LIGHT and DWELLS in light...

Could it also be that God, in saying let there be light, was his first act in creation to begin to reveal HIMSELF and HIS glory to the creation that he was bringing into existence?

Hi, dcontroversal.

What you stated above is basically what I've always considered (I'm not sure) myself for some of the following reasons:

"Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you? Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord. Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ." (II Corinthians 3:1-4:6)

Here, while contrasting the Old Testament law of Moses which was "written and engraven in stones" and which he referred to as both "the ministration of death" and "the ministration of condemnation" in that "the letter killeth" with the New Testament which is "written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart" and which he referred to as both "the ministration of the Spirit" and "the ministration of righteousness" in that "the Spirit giveth life", the Apostle Paul also made a contrast between how that "the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away" and how that "God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ".

Whew...talk about your run on sentences!

IOW, whereas "the glory of Moses' countenance" was a reflection of the glory of the Old Testament law "which glory was to be done away", there is a "glory that excelleth" which reflects the glory of the New Testament for us and such is not only found "in the face of Jesus Christ", but such also seems to be being compared by Paul with the original light which God commanded to shine out of darkness way back in Genesis 1:3-5:

"And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." (Genesis 1:3-5)

Could it be that this original "light" which God called "Day" was indeed "the light of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ"? I mean, Jesus is referred to as both "the light of the world" (John 8:12, 9:5) and "the day star" (II Peter 1:19) or "the Sun of righteousness" (Malachi 4:2) in scripture, isn't He? Also, I cannot help but to think of what Peter, James and John witnessed while they were on the Mount of Transfiguration with Jesus:

"And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light." (Matthew 17:1-2)

Similarly, I cannot help but recall what Paul witnessed while on the road to Damascus:

"Whereupon as I went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests, At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me. And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest." (Acts 26:12-15)

Seeing how the light of Christ outshone even the brightness of the midday sun, I also cannot help but to ponder that which the Bible says is yet to come in the New Jerusalem:

"And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof." (Revelation 21:23)

When all of these things are considered together, it does seem quite plausible that the "light" which first "shone" in Genesis 1:3-5, a "light" which preceded the making of the physical Sun, may have indeed been "the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ". Again, Paul certainly did seem to be comparing the two in what we read earlier, namely this:

"For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ." (II Corinthains 4:6)

Anyhow, that's just my 2 1/2 cents worth.

Oh, btw...

Semper Fi.

 

[Dean]

My every lasting light is the sun, it's my rising savour it rises every moring if it don't rise we won't last long.
it gives us energy and grows are crops and makes it rain to grow are grapes so we can make wine so its turning water into wine.
when I go down to the lake when it's out and stay there for 5 hours fishing I see the sun walking along the water as the day goes by hour by hour, and worship day is sun day.
The sun is the light, that's why its in the middle of the cross on every church you go in, you see the circle in the cross.
the sun belongs to God he created the sun so it's gods sun and it the light of the world and every eye shall see him.
this is just my way of thinking please don't be mad as everyone as the right to think there own way don't they.

 

[dcontroversal]

Hi, dcontroversal.

What you stated above is basically what I've always considered (I'm not sure) myself for some of the following reasons:

"Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you? Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord. Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ." (II Corinthians 3:1-4:6)

Here, while contrasting the Old Testament law of Moses which was "written and engraven in stones" and which he referred to as both "the ministration of death" and "the ministration of condemnation" in that "the letter killeth" with the New Testament which is "written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart" and which he referred to as both "the ministration of the Spirit" and "the ministration of righteousness" in that "the Spirit giveth life", the Apostle Paul also made a contrast between how that "the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away" and how that "God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ".

Whew...talk about your run on sentences!

IOW, whereas "the glory of Moses' countenance" was a reflection of the glory of the Old Testament law "which glory was to be done away", there is a "glory that excelleth" which reflects the glory of the New Testament for us and such is not only found "in the face of Jesus Christ", but such also seems to be being compared by Paul with the original light which God commanded to shine out of darkness way back in Genesis 1:3-5:

"And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." (Genesis 1:3-5)

Could it be that this original "light" which God called "Day" was indeed "the light of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ"? I mean, Jesus is referred to as both "the light of the world" (John 8:12, 9:5) and "the day star" (II Peter 1:19) or "the Sun of righteousness" (Malachi 4:2) in scripture, isn't He? Also, I cannot help but to think of what Peter, James and John witnessed while they were on the Mount of Transfiguration with Jesus:

"And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light." (Matthew 17:1-2)

Similarly, I cannot help but recall what Paul witnessed while on the road to Damascus:

"Whereupon as I went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests, At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me. And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest." (Acts 26:12-15)

Seeing how the light of Christ outshone even the brightness of the midday sun, I also cannot help but to ponder that which the Bible says is yet to come in the New Jerusalem:

"And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof." (Revelation 21:23)

When all of these things are considered together, it does seem quite plausible that the "light" which first "shone" in Genesis 1:3-5, a "light" which preceded the making of the physical Sun, may have indeed been "the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ". Again, Paul certainly did seem to be comparing the two in what we read earlier, namely this:

"For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ." (II Corinthains 4:6)

Anyhow, that's just my 2 1/2 cents worth.

Oh, btw...

Semper Fi.

Some deep thoughts for sure.....and God is very deep and his ways are so much higher than our ways.....The light makes manifest for sure and God most definitely reveals himself unto humanity dia His Son Jesus Christ which is the ICON of the invisible Heavenly Father!

 

[Dean]

just reply with your own brain not something written in a book, my thoughts on what I think is just what I think myself I'm not saying anyone else should think that way, Jesus is a metophor for the sun in my eyes, whether Jesus was a man is irrelevant to what I'm saying.

 

[WebersHome]

just reply with your own brain not something written in a book

†. John 3:6 . . That which is born of the flesh is flesh

The human mind is produced by a 3-pound lump of flabby organic tissue,
and not even all three of those pounds are dedicated to cognitive processes.

The human mind is not only produced by organic tissue, but it's very fragile
too and it doesn't take much brain damage to make someone a moron or
even to make them someone else.

I once read the story of a woman who was in a very bad auto accident that
left her in a coma for a while. When she came to; the woman was someone
else. Her favorite foods were no longer her favorite foods. Her favorite colors
were no longer her favorite colors. She preferred different fashions, different
kinds of music, different hair styles, different kinds of entertainment, and
even her mannerisms were different. She came out of the coma with a
whole new personality. The woman was so unlike her original self that
neither her own children nor her own husband recognized her. They could
legitimately ask: Where is our mother; and what have you done with her?

What happened? Well obviously her brain function changed. The auto
accident had somehow altered its activity; subsequently making her into
another woman. It's somewhat disturbing to realize that we are who the
organic tissues of our bodies have made us; and that those same organic
tissues can make us become someone else; and there is not one thing we
can do to stop it.

It is very humbling to realize that all of us are the persons that not we; but
that our brains make us; and our brains can very easily make us into
another person without our consent.

A touching movie based on this very subject is "Regarding Henry" starring
Harrison Ford. He plays a hard-boiled, callous attorney who, after being shot
by a punk in a mom and pop store robbery, comes out of a coma with a
totally different personality. The hard-boiled, callous attorney is gone. One
of the two bullets he was hit with had damaged an important vein in his
shoulder area that supplied blood to his head.

You say "reply with your brain". Well let me ask: just how reliable is your
brain? especially its imaginations; which are merely the result of electrochemical
activity. Do you honestly believe that your brain's electrochemical activity produces
infallible results each and every time? Nobel Prize winner John Nash once thought
so until he found out that he had schizophrenia and didn't even know it.

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