What is your BEST PROOF for a pre-trib Rapture?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
7,850
1,565
113
So how long then, which one of the seven days is it now? Which one ended and which one began? In Luke 21:24 Jesus said they would fall by the edge of the sword(ad66-70 makes sense) then led away captive(1st,2nd,3rd rebellion ended with them led away captive) and Jerusalem trodden down by the gentiles until their times are full,,,hmm dome of the rock's still standing and gentiles are still trodding it down to this day... https://biblehub.com/luke/21-24.htm https://biblehub.com/interlinear/romans/11-25.htm
 
Dec 30, 2019
1,266
290
83
their age, not ours.
Everything in the OLD is a shadow and type of the NEW. Everything God did with the Old Testament Saints He is now doing with the New Testament Saints. Only we have a better covenant based on better promises. Also we live in the time of the final harvest. People looked forward to this time. Just as people in the future will look back on the time we now live in. In the same way we study the beginning of the church age they will study the end of the church age. This is a turbulent time to live but there is more of the power of God to overcome our adversity then what we ever had before at any time in the history of man. There are many names for this age: Time of the Gentiles, Holy Spirit dispensation and so on.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
7,850
1,565
113
I think we are in the final great harvest. More people will come to Christ in the next 10 years then ever before. As a dispensationalist I believe the church age is 2,000 years. Then the Kingdom Age will begin. There is a lot of teaching that there is a 7 year tribulation period between the Church Age and the Kingdom age. The Bible is not real clear about how we go from one age to the next.

I tend to believe one third of the people are going to be saved. This is based on the idea that one third is a few and two thirds is many. If you look at the origional language this is a possible understanding of what Jesus was teaching us. "And in all the land, declares the LORD, two-thirds will be cut off and perish, but a third will be left in it. This third I will bring through the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold. They will call on My name, and I will answer them. I will say, ‘They are My people,’ and they will say, ‘The LORD is our God.’" (Zechariah13:8,9)

Usually a remnant or 10% of the population survive an extinction and repopulate the earth. We saw a major extinction around 12,000 years ago when the ice age ended. This is when the wholly Mammoths and Saber tooth tigers died off.

Sounds like the great tribulation to me...
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
7,850
1,565
113
hmm, there are no pre-trib,pre-wrath,pre-millenials participating in this thread....
 
Dec 30, 2019
1,266
290
83
Sounds like the great tribulation to me...
I believe the "Jewish" people will be God's witness during the Tribulation period. 144,000 - 12,000 from each tribe. They are already writting their books and getting their teaching ready for the gentiles that are alive at that time. My ancient history teacher in High School was a German "Jew" that escaped Germany before the Holocaust. He lived to be 100. He was the one that got me started with my studies.
 

Attachments

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
7,850
1,565
113
I believe the "Jewish" people will be God's witness during the Tribulation period. 144,000 - 12,000 from each tribe. They are already writting their books and getting their teaching ready for the gentiles that are alive at that time. My ancient history teacher in High School was a German "Jew" that escaped Germany before the Holocaust. He lived to be 100. He was the one that got me started with my studies.

I can assure you that there will be no other Gospel witnessed at that time than the same Paul delivered... https://biblehub.com/interlinear/galatians/1-8.htm https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/14-6.htm that is unless this angel is then cursed...
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
7,850
1,565
113
Paul did not add anything to what we received from Moses and Jesus.

That is on the road to Damascus,with a letter in his hand giving him authority to arrest Christians, while in the midst of denying his blood even while he had no remorse nor regard for Jesus and although Saul was not in the midst of repenting the Lord appeared to him while he was in the act of persecuting his Church correct?
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
9,080
3,968
113
mywebsite.us
Not every occurance of the word 'sea' in the Bible means something other than "sea" - sometimes, it actually means "sea"...

;)
 
Dec 30, 2019
1,266
290
83
was in the act of persecuting his Church correct?
He persecuted the church because of his zeal for God. "In my zeal for God I persecuted the church" (Phil3:6) Perhaps this is why they say we are going to be surprised at who is going to be in Heaven. We are told: "when the blood of your martyr Stephen was shed, I stood there giving my approval and guarding the clothes of those who were killing him." (Acts22:20) We have to be careful what we approve of in life. Then he tells us: "Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners--of whom I am the worst." (1Timothy1:15) This is a testimony that Jesus is able to save the worst of all sinners.

We see a lot of this in the world today where people want the approval of others. I have nephews and nieces that do not talk to me because I will not approve of what they are doing and how they live their life. We had a case end up in the supreme court because a baker would not approve of a wedding and decorate their cake. He would sell them a cake but he would not decorate it for them.

So Paul considered himself to be the worst of all sinners. Not because of what he did, but because of what he approved of: "I stood there giving my approval". God showed him mercy, grace and forgiveness. He came to a saving knowledge of the truth. Although people believe that God never did fully heal his eyes and that was his thorn in his flesh. "For I bear you witness that, if possible, you would have plucked out your eyes and given them to me. " (Gal4:15)
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
I think we are in the final great harvest. More people will come to Christ in the next 10 years then ever before. As a dispensationalist I believe the church age is 2,000 years. Then the Kingdom Age will begin. There is a lot of teaching that there is a 7 year tribulation period between the Church Age and the Kingdom age. The Bible is not real clear about how we go from one age to the next.

I tend to believe one third of the people are going to be saved. This is based on the idea that one third is a few and two thirds is many. If you look at the origional language this is a possible understanding of what Jesus was teaching us. "And in all the land, declares the LORD, two-thirds will be cut off and perish, but a third will be left in it. This third I will bring through the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold. They will call on My name, and I will answer them. I will say, ‘They are My people,’ and they will say, ‘The LORD is our God.’" (Zechariah13:8,9)

Usually a remnant or 10% of the population survive an extinction and repopulate the earth. We saw a major extinction around 12,000 years ago when the ice age ended. This is when the wholly Mammoths and Saber tooth tigers died off.
Zech 13 was about Antiochus and the Maccabees. Indeed, 2/3 or 80,000 Jews were killed and 40,000 remained. The population of Jerusalem at that time was 120,000.

An age is approximately 2,150 years. Many say we are about to enter the Age of Aquarius. An age corresponds to the average time it takes for the vernal equinox to move from one constellation of the zodiac into the next. This average can be computed by dividing the earth's 25,800-year gyroscopic procession period by twelve, the number of zodiac constellations. It was approximately 2,100 years from Abraham to 70 AD. This age was called the Mosaic Age or the Age of the Law. The great tribulation which separated the Mosaic from the Messianic Age lasted 7 years from the start of the war in 66 AD to its final conclusion at Masada in 73 AD.

The Church Age = the Kingdom Age

What comes next is anyone's guess. We may very well have a global great tribulation although none is predicted in the Bible. The Bible contains few facts about our age and almost nothing about it's end.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
Not every occurance of the word 'sea' in the Bible means something other than "sea" - sometimes, it actually means "sea"...

;)
yes, sometimes. But in prophesy the key is knowing when it means Gentile nations outside Israel and when it means a body of water.
 
Dec 30, 2019
1,266
290
83
we are about to enter the Age of Aquarius.
That is the kind of stuff that Abraham was called to come out from among them and separate himself. (Genesis 12:1) They had truth and error mixed together. Today astrology and astronomy are separated from each other. I go by what Nasa says. I go by what can be tested and verified. When I worked as an electrician you had to get it right or things started to spark, melt or catch on fire.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
Your seeing the Jews undergoing the GT and not who Jesus said in Matthew 24:9 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/24.htm

In fact in ad70 those who endured the siege of Jerusalem are seen by many as such in this but in Matthew 24:9 he said "...they will deliver you(the disciples/Church) and that they would be hated for the name of him(Jesus) so bare in mind that 1.1 million Jews died in the siege and 6 million in ww2(which is sorrowful) but of those not one of them died for Jesus name's sake(they don't believe Jesus is the Messiah we do and we face the GT).
In Mat 24:9, who did Jesus say would die for His name's sake? Who was Jesus talking to? Look at the 3 companion passages. The answer is found in Mk 13: 3 "Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John, and Andrew asked Him privately..." Thus, depending on which of the four He was looking at, He was talking to them, not some distant audience. Thus we should expect to find examples of the below happening to some, or all, of the above 4.

Mat 24:9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake.

Mark 13:9 “But watch out for yourselves, for they will deliver you up to councils, and you will be beaten in the synagogues. You will be brought before rulers and kings for My sake, for a testimony to them. 10 And the gospel must first be preached to all the nations. 11 But when they arrest you and deliver you up, do not worry beforehand, or premeditate what you will speak. But whatever is given you in that hour, speak that; for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit. 12 Now brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. 13 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake.

Luke 21:12 But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name’s sake. 13 But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony. 14 Therefore settle it in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer; 15 for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or resist. 16 You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will put some of you to death. 17 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake.

Taking all three companion passages together we know that of the group of Peter, James, John and Andrew some of these 4 were put to death. History tells us 3 of them were. All were subject to persecution. We have several examples of some being delivered up to councils, synagogues and prisons. Let's see if we can find fulfillment of the above with these 4.

Peter: Acts 4 is the first example of Peter and John being arrested and brought before the Jews and threatened. We find Peter in prison in Acts 12. We all know the predictions Jesus had for Peter being led away when he was old. Peter was brought before Nero and later killed by Nero.

James: James, the brother of John was killed by King Herod by sword in Acts 12. James, the half-brother of Christ was thrown from the temple roof in 66 AD and later that same day, the Romans arrived. Since Peter and Andrew were brothers, it is reasonable to assume brothers John and James were the other 2. Thus James, the brother of John, was the first of the 4 to be martyred.

John: Was arrested with Peter in Acts 4. Early church tradition says that Nero attempted to kill John by dumping him in a vat of boiling oil, but John was unharmed thus Nero banished him to Patmos.

Andrew: The Bible says little about Andrew but church tradition claims Andrew was martyred by crucifixion in the city of Patras (Patræ) in Achaea. Early texts, such as the Acts of Andrew known to Gregory of Tours describe Andrew as bound, not nailed, to a Latin Cross of the kind on which Jesus is said to have been crucified; yet a tradition developed that Andrew had been crucified on a cross of the form called crux decussata (X-shaped cross, or "saltire"), now commonly known as a "Saint Andrew's Cross" - supposedly at his own request, as he deemed himself unworthy to be crucified on the same type of cross as Jesus had been.

Thus in these four disciples, the one Christ spoke to in the above 3 companion passage fit every things Christ predicted. Thus there is no need to keep looking for future fulfillment to peoples thousands of years later.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
That is the kind of stuff that Abraham was called to come out from among them and separate himself. (Genesis 12:1) They had truth and error mixed together. Today astrology and astronomy are separated from each other. I go by what Nasa says. I go by what can be tested and verified. When I worked as an electrician you had to get it right or things started to spark, melt or catch on fire.
You sound a little like doubting Thomas, LOL. When I was a nuclear engineer I had to get it right or submarines sank or reactor plants exploded or melted down.
 
Dec 30, 2019
1,266
290
83
You sound a little like doubting Thomas, LOL. When I was a nuclear engineer I had to get it right or submarines sank or reactor plants exploded or melted down.
You would never hear the end of that. We still hear about the meltdown in Russia & Japan. Both of my sons are engineers. I can do basic math: Physics - Trig and so on. But not as advanced as they do.
 

Attachments

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
You would never hear the end of that. We still hear about the meltdown in Russia & Japan. Both of my sons are engineers. I can do basic math: Physics - Trig and so on. But not as advanced as they do.
I worked at the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard for 7 years; 5 years as a reactor air engineer (Code 2320) and 2 years as a steering and diving engineer (Code 380). We lost the Thresher back in the day, before my time, so yeah, ship safety was always a priority. The Thresher loss was thought to have been from a poor pipe weld which led to the Sub Safe Program whereas all hull pipe joints had to be x-rayed from then on.

We had training on the Ukraine incident as well as other US nuke accidents that most never heard about. I was never great at math. Hated Calculus and had to take it three times. Never once used it. Computers made manual calculations obsolete.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
.
What I am saying is it was the "end of an aeon/age" (one of the 7 days of Gen.2:4/ 7 1000 years), and the "beginning of the next" in the series(week) of seven...

In 2 Peter 3:18 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_peter/3-18.htm Peter says "to him be the glory (both) now and to the day of eternity". The word translated "of eternity" is #165 https://biblehub.com/greek/165.htm aion/age . So if Peter says "both now and to the day of eternity" he is seeing the age he was in separate from the one he refers to as coming.
Hmmmm.

After the defeat of the ac and his army is a period of 1000 yrs.

A rest. A peiod of 1000 of 7000, a 7th "day" rest.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
The devil is chained. No devil in the mix.
Satan taken out.
A period of rest.
 
Dec 30, 2019
1,266
290
83
Never once used it. Computers made manual calculations obsolete.
My son is very good at coming up with a formula. I wanted to know how much information the atoms in the body could hold. If we want to store one bit of information in each atom then the atoms in the human body could hold all the information on the internet 22,000 times over. I had someone on line do the math and they came up with the same results. This was a challenge to show if memory could survive death and I think I showed that not only could our memory survive death, it could survive cremation also.

Moore's Law predicted that the amount of data that can be stored on a microchip would double every 18 months. Now we are down to one bit per atom. If Moore's law is going to continue then we will have to find a way to fit more then one bit of information in an atom. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/03/170309120521.htm

The other one we worked on was the spindown rate of the earth and the recession rate of the moon. We can go back to see when the earth and moon had their collision. Also this is the cause of our tide, our season and the weather patterns that we have. He works with a lot of people that are a lot smarter then he is, but he is really good at coming up with formulas that makes it easy to figure something out. Then as you say, once you have the formula the computer can do all the math.