What "law" is Romans 2:26 talking about?

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JohnRH

Junior Member
Mar 5, 2018
440
204
43
#21
Romans 2:26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision?


What law is Paul referring to? In context Paul mentions gentiles have some law written inside of them. On one hand the context makes it sound like its the law of Moses (as its a law jews HAVE and gentiles DONT) but that interpretation doesn't really make much sense as no gentile really has any idea about the dietary laws circumcision and so on that would INCLUDE in "keeping the righteous requirements of the law" so maybe this is something different? Its tricky as circumcision IS part of the law, so how could the gentile keep the righteous requirements of the law, but NOT be circumcised?


I know Paul refers to many "laws" in his writings, sometimes its the law of Christ, sometimes, Moses, sometimes the law of "sin and death" etc. But I believe this law here may be talking about something like the 10 commandments, perhaps? Give your opinions friends, I didn't post the context of the verse but im sure you guys can look it up and you probably already know it! PS: no comments about no one keeping the law etc. i know i know Paul concludes with that in Romans 3. But this thread is about what LAW Paul had in mind here.
Notice it says 'righteousness of the law'; not 'the law'. The Mosaic law (with all its details) was given to Israel, not to the Gentiles.

Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. Matt 22:37-40 (KJV)

... love is the fulfilling of the law. Romans 13:10 (KJV)

For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Gal 5:14 (KJV)

If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: James 2:8 (KJV)
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
19,685
10,280
113
#22
Something that significant would have been written.
Of course it is written as prophecy. Why don't you check it out and then go to the history books?
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
1,201
369
83
#23
Romans 2:26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision?


What law is Paul referring to? In context Paul mentions gentiles have some law written inside of them. On one hand the context makes it sound like its the law of Moses (as its a law jews HAVE and gentiles DONT) but that interpretation doesn't really make much sense as no gentile really has any idea about the dietary laws circumcision and so on that would INCLUDE in "keeping the righteous requirements of the law" so maybe this is something different? Its tricky as circumcision IS part of the law, so how could the gentile keep the righteous requirements of the law, but NOT be circumcised?


I know Paul refers to many "laws" in his writings, sometimes its the law of Christ, sometimes, Moses, sometimes the law of "sin and death" etc. But I believe this law here may be talking about something like the 10 commandments, perhaps? Give your opinions friends, I didn't post the context of the verse but im sure you guys can look it up and you probably already know it! PS: no comments about no one keeping the law etc. i know i know Paul concludes with that in Romans 3. But this thread is about what LAW Paul had in mind here.
Paul actually states, "the righteous requirements of the law".

What does Paul mean by that word righteousness?

Romans 2 is obviously part of the introduction to the church in Rome.

Romans 2 increases in complexity with the following verse.

2:24 For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you" just as it is written.

Whom is Paul talking about here?
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
1,201
369
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#24
Weren't the Babylonians obeying God (to a degree) by enslaving Israel as God had summoned Nebuchadnezzar, whereas with the Philistines, their actions against Israel were more out of their own desires? I'm not really sure about this - just putting it out there for comment.
The folk that crucified Jesus were helping God achieve salvation for everyone?
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
1,201
369
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#25
Paul is talking about the 613 laws as that was what the Jews had to keep ----not just the 10 commandments ------I believe as he is confronting Jews -------

in this verse 21 ----we see Paul giving examples -----which are from the 10 Commandments ----but the Jews were to keep all 613 and they even added their own rules to keep ---like washing your hand before eating -------

Romans 2 NIV
21 you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal?

22 You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples?

23 You who boast in the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? 24 As it is written: “God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”
That one verse (Romans 2:23) changes how we understand the letter to the Romans.

Whom is Paul talking to in Romans and what is Paul talking about in Romans?

God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”
 

Komentaja

Active member
Jul 29, 2022
138
77
28
#26
That one verse (Romans 2:23) changes how we understand the letter to the Romans.

Whom is Paul talking to in Romans and what is Paul talking about in Romans?

God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”
Are you saying all the people in Rome Paul wrote to were Jews?
 
N

notonmywatch

Guest
#27
I have a follow up question for you: Is there somewhere in the Bible where the "10 commandments" are set apart from "the laws/ordinances/etc" ? Like they are mentioned in a separate way or something? I remember once reading that in the Ark you had the BOOK OF THE LAW, one entity, and then another entity which was the TEN COMMANDMENTS, but I cant remember where I read it
They are separate entities.

Deuteronomy 31

24When Moses had finished writing in a book the words of this law from beginning to end, 25he gave this command to the Levites who carried the ark of the covenant of the LORD: 26Take this Book of the Law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, so that it may remain there as a witness against you.

The Book of the Law was a book written by Moses, and it was placed BESIDE the ark of the covenant. This Book of the Law was later seen throughout Israel's history.

2 Kings 22

8And Hilkiah the high priest said unto Shaphan the scribe, I have found the book of the law in the house of the LORD. And Hilkiah gave the book to Shaphan, and he read it. 9And Shaphan the scribe came to the king, and brought the king word again, and said, Thy servants have gathered the money that was found in the house, and have delivered it into the hand of them that do the work, that have the oversight of the house of the LORD. 10And Shaphan the scribe shewed the king, saying, Hilkiah the priest hath delivered me a book. And Shaphan read it before the king. 11And it came to pass, when the king had heard the words of the book of the law, that he rent his clothes. 12And the king commanded Hilkiah the priest, and Ahikam the son of Shaphan, and Achbor the son of Michaiah, and Shaphan the scribe, and Asahiah a servant of the king's, saying, 13Go ye, inquire of the LORD for me, and for the people, and for all Judah, concerning the words of this book that is found: for great is the wrath of the LORD that is kindled against us, because our fathers have not hearkened unto the words of this book, to do according unto all that which is written concerning us.

Again, here:

Nehemiah 8

1And all the people gathered themselves together as one man into the street that was before the water gate; and they spake unto Ezra the scribe to bring the book of the law of Moses, which the LORD had commanded to Israel. 2And Ezra the priest brought the law before the congregation both of men and women, and all that could hear with understanding, upon the first day of the seventh month. 3And he read therein before the street that was before the water gate from the morning until midday, before the men and the women, and those that could understand; and the ears of all the people were attentive unto the book of the law. 4And Ezra the scribe stood upon a pulpit of wood, which they had made for the purpose; and beside him stood Mattithiah, and Shema, and Anaiah, and Urijah, and Hilkiah, and Maaseiah, on his right hand; and on his left hand, Pedaiah, and Mishael, and Malchiah, and Hashum, and Hashbadana, Zechariah, and Meshullam. 5And Ezra opened the book in the sight of all the people; (for he was above all the people) and when he opened it, all the people stood up: 6And Ezra blessed the LORD, the great God. And all the people answered, Amen, Amen, with lifting up their hands: and they bowed their heads, and worshipped the LORD with their faces to the ground. 7Also Jeshua, and Bani, and Sherebiah, Jamin, Akkub, Shabbethai, Hodijah, Maaseiah, Kelita, Azariah, Jozabad, Hanan, Pelaiah, and the Levites, caused the people to understand the law: and the people stood in their place. 8So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

Conversely, the 10 commandments were written with the finger of God upon two tables of stone, and they were placed INSIDE the ark of the covenant.

Exodus 31

18When the LORD had finished speaking with Moses on Mount Sinai, He gave him the two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone inscribed by the finger of God.

The LORD instructed Moses to place " the Testimony" INSIDE of the ark of the covenant.

Exodus 25

16And place inside the ark the Testimony, which I will give you.

Later on in Israel's history, when the ark of the covenant was brought to Solomon's temple, there was nothing found within it but the two tables of stone upon which were written the 10 commandments.

1 Kings 8

[1] Then Solomon assembled the elders of Israel, and all the heads of the tribes, the chief of the fathers of the children of Israel, unto king Solomon in Jerusalem, that they might bring up the ark of the covenant of the LORD out of the city of David, which is Zion.
[2] And all the men of Israel assembled themselves unto king Solomon at the feast in the month Ethanim, which is the seventh month.
[3] And all the elders of Israel came, and the priests took up the ark.
[4] And they brought up the ark of the LORD, and the tabernacle of the congregation, and all the holy vessels that were in the tabernacle, even those did the priests and the Levites bring up.
[5] And king Solomon, and all the congregation of Israel, that were assembled unto him, were with him before the ark, sacrificing sheep and oxen, that could not be told nor numbered for multitude.
[6] And the priests brought in the ark of the covenant of the LORD unto his place, into the oracle of the house, to the most holy place, even under the wings of the cherubims.
[7] For the cherubims spread forth their two wings over the place of the ark, and the cherubims covered the ark and the staves thereof above.
[8] And they drew out the staves, that the ends of the staves were seen out in the holy place before the oracle, and they were not seen without: and there they are unto this day.
[9] There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone, which Moses put there at Horeb, when the LORD made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt.

So, again, the Book of the Law was a book written by Moses, which was placed BESIDE the ark of the covenant whereas the 10 commandments were written with the finger of God upon two tables of stone, which were placed INSIDE the ark of the covenant.
 

Komentaja

Active member
Jul 29, 2022
138
77
28
#28
They are separate entities.

Deuteronomy 31

24When Moses had finished writing in a book the words of this law from beginning to end, 25he gave this command to the Levites who carried the ark of the covenant of the LORD: 26Take this Book of the Law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, so that it may remain there as a witness against you.

The Book of the Law was a book written by Moses, and it was placed BESIDE the ark of the covenant. This Book of the Law was later seen throughout Israel's history.

2 Kings 22

8And Hilkiah the high priest said unto Shaphan the scribe, I have found the book of the law in the house of the LORD. And Hilkiah gave the book to Shaphan, and he read it. 9And Shaphan the scribe came to the king, and brought the king word again, and said, Thy servants have gathered the money that was found in the house, and have delivered it into the hand of them that do the work, that have the oversight of the house of the LORD. 10And Shaphan the scribe shewed the king, saying, Hilkiah the priest hath delivered me a book. And Shaphan read it before the king. 11And it came to pass, when the king had heard the words of the book of the law, that he rent his clothes. 12And the king commanded Hilkiah the priest, and Ahikam the son of Shaphan, and Achbor the son of Michaiah, and Shaphan the scribe, and Asahiah a servant of the king's, saying, 13Go ye, inquire of the LORD for me, and for the people, and for all Judah, concerning the words of this book that is found: for great is the wrath of the LORD that is kindled against us, because our fathers have not hearkened unto the words of this book, to do according unto all that which is written concerning us.

Again, here:

Nehemiah 8

1And all the people gathered themselves together as one man into the street that was before the water gate; and they spake unto Ezra the scribe to bring the book of the law of Moses, which the LORD had commanded to Israel. 2And Ezra the priest brought the law before the congregation both of men and women, and all that could hear with understanding, upon the first day of the seventh month. 3And he read therein before the street that was before the water gate from the morning until midday, before the men and the women, and those that could understand; and the ears of all the people were attentive unto the book of the law. 4And Ezra the scribe stood upon a pulpit of wood, which they had made for the purpose; and beside him stood Mattithiah, and Shema, and Anaiah, and Urijah, and Hilkiah, and Maaseiah, on his right hand; and on his left hand, Pedaiah, and Mishael, and Malchiah, and Hashum, and Hashbadana, Zechariah, and Meshullam. 5And Ezra opened the book in the sight of all the people; (for he was above all the people) and when he opened it, all the people stood up: 6And Ezra blessed the LORD, the great God. And all the people answered, Amen, Amen, with lifting up their hands: and they bowed their heads, and worshipped the LORD with their faces to the ground. 7Also Jeshua, and Bani, and Sherebiah, Jamin, Akkub, Shabbethai, Hodijah, Maaseiah, Kelita, Azariah, Jozabad, Hanan, Pelaiah, and the Levites, caused the people to understand the law: and the people stood in their place. 8So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

Conversely, the 10 commandments were written with the finger of God upon two tables of stone, and they were placed INSIDE the ark of the covenant.

Exodus 31

18When the LORD had finished speaking with Moses on Mount Sinai, He gave him the two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone inscribed by the finger of God.

The LORD instructed Moses to place " the Testimony" INSIDE of the ark of the covenant.

Exodus 25

16And place inside the ark the Testimony, which I will give you.

Later on in Israel's history, when the ark of the covenant was brought to Solomon's temple, there was nothing found within it but the two tables of stone upon which were written the 10 commandments.

1 Kings 8

[1] Then Solomon assembled the elders of Israel, and all the heads of the tribes, the chief of the fathers of the children of Israel, unto king Solomon in Jerusalem, that they might bring up the ark of the covenant of the LORD out of the city of David, which is Zion.
[2] And all the men of Israel assembled themselves unto king Solomon at the feast in the month Ethanim, which is the seventh month.
[3] And all the elders of Israel came, and the priests took up the ark.
[4] And they brought up the ark of the LORD, and the tabernacle of the congregation, and all the holy vessels that were in the tabernacle, even those did the priests and the Levites bring up.
[5] And king Solomon, and all the congregation of Israel, that were assembled unto him, were with him before the ark, sacrificing sheep and oxen, that could not be told nor numbered for multitude.
[6] And the priests brought in the ark of the covenant of the LORD unto his place, into the oracle of the house, to the most holy place, even under the wings of the cherubims.
[7] For the cherubims spread forth their two wings over the place of the ark, and the cherubims covered the ark and the staves thereof above.
[8] And they drew out the staves, that the ends of the staves were seen out in the holy place before the oracle, and they were not seen without: and there they are unto this day.
[9] There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone, which Moses put there at Horeb, when the LORD made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt.

So, again, the Book of the Law was a book written by Moses, which was placed BESIDE the ark of the covenant whereas the 10 commandments were written with the finger of God upon two tables of stone, which were placed INSIDE the ark of the covenant.
Thanks. This is what I was looking for!
 
N

notonmywatch

Guest
#29
Its tricky as circumcision IS part of the law, so how could the gentile keep the righteous requirements of the law, but NOT be circumcised?
Here is the answer to your question:

Romans 4

1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. 9Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. 10How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. 11And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: 12And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

Abram's/Abraham's faith was imputed unto him for righteousness (Genesis 15:6) PRIOR TO him ever getting outwardly circumcised (Genesis 17:23-24). As Paul said in verse 11 of what we just read, "he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also".

With this truth in mind, let's turn back to what Paul said earlier in this same epistle in relation to other uncircumcised Gentiles (Abram was an uncircumcised Gentile when righteousness was imputed to him in Genesis 15:6).

Romans 2

25For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. 26Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 27And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? 28For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Again, outward circumcision was always intended to be a "seal of the righteousness of the faith which one had yet being uncircumcised" (Romans 4:11) or "a token" (Genesis 17:11) of the same. In other words, if one wasn't previously circumcised in "the heart" or "in the spirit" (Romans 2:29), then their outward circumcision counted for absolutely nothing in God's sight.

This was not a new concept that Paul was introducing here. Instead, he was merely reiterating what God had been saying to his people throughout the Old Testament.

Here are some examples of what I'm talking about:

Deuteronomy 10

16Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

And here:

Jeremiah 4

4Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.

And here again:

Jeremiah 9

25Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will punish all them which are circumcised with the uncircumcised; 26Egypt, and Judah, and Edom, and the children of Ammon, and Moab, and all that are in the utmost corners, that dwell in the wilderness: for all these nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of Israel are uncircumcised in the heart.

The only circumcision that God has ever been interested in is the circumcision of our hearts. With this in mind, the Gentiles could keep the righteous requirements of the law without an outward circumcision because they were circumcised in their hearts.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
1,201
369
83
#32
Are you saying all the people in Rome Paul wrote to were Jews?
Why would you assume that?

Paul is certainly addressing the Jews directly in Romans 2.

Regardless of the percentage of Jews in that Roman church, Paul is directly addressing the Jews in Romans chapter two. As we can easily see from the verses below.

Romans 2:17 But if you call yourself a Jew and rely upon the Law and boast in God.

Romans 2:23 You who boast in the Law, through your breaking the Law, do you dishonor God?

Romans 2:24 For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you,” just as it is written.

Paul is not addressing the Gentiles in Romans 2. that's for sure.

Warning, if you think Paul is addressing the Gentiles in Romans 2, you misunderstand what is written in Romans 2.

Which directly impacts your theology, your interpretation!