What must I do to be saved

[Jewel5712]

I thought 'real' believers never leave. So, you are either saying that the Parable of the Prodigal Son is not a proof text for 'once saved always saved', or you believe the new Freegrace version of once saved always saved which says that even if you leave the faith you are still saved. Which are you?



No, salvation is lost due to your unbelief.



This is the MAIN reason people can not hear what I'm saying. They instantly think that I'm saying salvation is lost by sinning. I'm saying salvation is lost by a return to unbelief. That is what the Galatians were doing. Paul warned them they will lose the efficacy of Christ in justification and will not be heirs if they fall away from faith and trust in Christ for justification.


No. Once God turns you over to your unbelief and you lose salvation, that's it. You don't get a second chance to be born again. God does not allow his Son to be re-crucified and put to open shame that way.




Ultimately, unforgiveness is a sign of unbelief. Ultimately, the forgiven Christian who does not forgive is living away from God in unbelief. If he does not repent in the space God provides, he will be condemned as an unbeliever when Jesus comes back to settle accounts.


Reread Matthew 18:23-35 again. He WILL do that. Or do you not believe the scriptures?

Like I say, getting red-pilled is not easy:


Red pill and blue pill
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_pill_and_blue_pill

The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are a popular cultural meme, a metaphor representing the choice between:

• Knowledge, freedom, and the brutal truths of reality (red pill)
• Security, happiness and the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue pill)

The terms, popularized in science fiction culture, are derived from the 1999 film The Matrix. In the film, the main character Neois offered the choice between a red pill and a blue pill by rebel leader Morpheus. The red pill would free him from the enslaving control of the machine-generated dream world and allow him to escape into the real world, but living the "truth of reality" is harsher and more difficult. On the other hand, the blue pill would lead him back to stay in the comfortable simulated reality of the Matrix.

Whew...anyway..either you have faith or you dont..people accept jesus all the time but CHOSE to do things THIER way instead of GODS way..does that mean that God stomps his feet..gets vengeful and says "just for that im taking your salvation away? ABSERD..besides if you dudnt have faith how could you concieve Gods love for you to accept him anyway...? Btw..not blue or red pill..purple please?

 

[Ralph-]

Amen brother! Also NO CROP/FRUIT "except" in the 4th soil. It amazes how the same people who point to James chapter 2 and shout "faith without works is dead" from the roof tops will turnaround and say that "fruitless" faith (shallow, temporary belief) in the parable of the soils represents saving faith.

If soil #2 was fruitless you'd have a point for discussion. But as it is, Jesus plainly said the word was growing in that person and produced the fruit of joy.

 

[Jewel5712]

If soil #2 was fruitless you'd have a point for discussion. But as it is, Jesus plainly said the word was growing in that person and produced the fruit of joy.

Faith without works is not faith at all.its good intentions..the fruits of the spirit are manifested essence of the faith inside that are nurture ir cut off (pruned) ..question is..what kind of "fruit" are we bearing?

 

[Ralph-]

Whew...anyway..either you have faith or you dont..people accept jesus all the time but CHOSE to do things THIER way instead of GODS way..does that mean that God stomps his feet..gets vengeful and says "just for that im taking your salvation away? ABSERD

If you mean people believe then decide to not believe, then 'yes', God takes away their salvation. That's what the Galatians were doing. They had put themselves in danger of no longer being heirs of eternal life by turning away from faith in Christ for justification. Have you read that Book in the Bible?

..besides if you dudnt have faith how could you concieve Gods love for you to accept him anyway...?

Not sure of your point, but of course it takes God's gift of faith for you to then believe and trust in the blood of Christ for justification. The point is, some really do walk away from the faith God has given them to believe and they stop believing. The Bible says they will not be saved when Jesus returns. Instead, all they have to look forward to is the wrath of God at the coming Judgment.

Btw..not blue or red pill..purple please?

Purple? A mix between the illusion and the reality? That may be worse than the blue pill. Knowing some truth and not embracing it is definitely worse than not knowing it at all.

 

[mailmandan]

If soil #2 was fruitless you'd have a point for discussion. But as it is, Jesus plainly said the word was growing in that person and produced the fruit of joy.

Soil #2 was fruitless, so I do have a point. I already refuted your argument in post #476. - https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/what-must-i-do-to-be-saved.177680/page-24

 

[Ralph-]

Faith without works is not faith at all.

Ultimately, that is true.

the fruits of the spirit are manifested essence of the faith inside that are nurture ir cut off (pruned) ..question is..what kind of "fruit" are we bearing?

The question is, are you characterized by fruit bearing? Surely, you don't think that, yesterday, when you did not respond according to the fruit of the Spirit that meant you were not saved as mailmandan is trying to twist my argument against his doctrine.

 

[Ralph-]

Soil #2 was fruitless, so I do have a point. I already refuted your argument in post #476. - https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/what-must-i-do-to-be-saved.177680/page-24

And I refuted them. But you refuse to acknowledge the honest, reasonable, scriptural rebuttal I gave you.

The word is PLANTED in soil #2. That means they believed (see 1 John 5:10), and that's what Jesus plainly said anyway--they believed. But you are projecting your predetermined 'once saved always saved' bias on it and concluding that since they did not keep believing they were not 'really' saved to begin with. The passage does not say that. You added that to the passage. And there is no legitimate scriptural support for that contention anywhere else in the Bible.

Your problems are 1) you're reading the passage as if it's a passage about salvation instead of what it is, a passage about fruit bearing, and 2) you're reading it through the blinders of traditional 'once saved always saved' doctrine. Did you know that even Freegrace 'once saved always saved' doctrine acknowledges that the 2nd type of soil really did believe? (Of course, they then go on to say they are still saved despite no longer believing.) You did not know this did you? But I'm guessing it doesn't matter to you, just as long as they believe in 'once saved always saved' all is good, right?

I'm not smarter than you mailmandan. What I am is more familiar with other thoughts and insights that exist outside of the blinders of your traditional 'once saved always saved' doctrine. You're like a horse with blinders on each side of it's eyes that keep them from seeing things on the sides and only able to see the narrow view in front of them. I challenge you to take the blinders off. Yes, like a horse it's going to startle you at first and you're going to rear up in self defense. But you need to do it so you can see the whole picture and form your doctrine on all of the truth, not just the narrowed version of truth 'once saved always saved' has only allowed you to see.

 

[Ralph-]

Whew...anyway..either you have faith or you dont..

Oh, and by the way. There is weak faith and there is strong faith. But I understand how it is that you look at faith in an either/or kind of way. That is how most Christians see it. Because that is what traditional 'once saved always saved' doctrine teaches them.

People with weak faith in whom the word is not well rooted can fall away in unbelief. It is the people with strong faith in whom the word is deeply rooted and who persevere in fruit bearing who can not have the word uprooted from them in unbelief.

 

[mailmandan]

Its offucial..youre completely off your rocker..lol. You dont listen to other people but are entagled with confusion and wish to bring tgat on others dispite others showing you truth. Its not my job to argue with you but pray that God will open your eyes and give you wisdom and understanding as people have been patient with your continued stubborness...

You hit the nail on the head!

 

[Jewel5712]

You hit the nail on the head!

BANG!

 

[Ralph-]

Hey, mailman, if you want to keep your blinders on and prefer to only see what 'once saved always saved' let's you see that's your privilege. Prolly best you just move on and don't look at my posts anymore.

 

[Ralph-]

BANG!

Take another blue pill, Jewel. Take another blue pill. It'll keep you in the comfort and safety and blissful ignorance of the illusion.

It takes courage to take the red pill and see the uncomfortable reality of the truth. I know. But truth loving, honest people are going to do it.

 

[Ralph-]

"Whoever will listen let him listen, and whoever will refuse let him refuse; for they are a rebellious house."-Ezekiel 3:27

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

If soil #2 was fruitless you'd have a point for discussion. But as it is, Jesus plainly said the word was growing in that person and produced the fruit of joy.

Joy is a fruit of the spirit.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. Galatians 5:22-23​

 

[calibob]

Hey, mailman, if you want to keep your blinders on and prefer to only see what 'once saved always saved' let's you see that's your privilege. Prolly best you just move on and don't look at my posts anymore.

please, quit trying to make a science project out of salvation. The printing press was only invented about 500 years ago. Since there were almost no books, most people couldn't read. Jews being a notable exception. Reading the scrolls was required in order to become a man. Their was no new testament before the Counsel of Trent. People still got saved.

If someone wants to read the bible and sees it as some kind of theological OBSTICLE course, and argue like opposing lawers about the finer points of scripture, Fine, they'll make goo d seminary students but Grace dosn't depend on your or my point of view or education. JESUS SAVES!

 

[Ralph-]

Joy is a fruit of the spirit.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. Galatians 5:22-23​

Mailmandan's argument was Mormon's have joy in their religion. But they do not have the word of God planted in them. The 2nd type of soil has the word of God sown planted and growing in them and it is producing the fruit of the Spirit, joy. Mormon's? They have the word of Joseph Smith planted in them.

 

[Ralph-]

please, quit trying to make a science project out of salvation. The printing press was only invented about 500 years ago. Since there were almost no books, most people couldn't read. Jews being a notable exception. Reading the scrolls was required in order to become a man. Their was no new testament before the Counsel of Trent. People still got saved.

If someone wants to read the bible and sees it as some kind of theological OBSTICLE course, and argue like opposing lawers about the finer points of scripture, Fine, they'll make goo d seminary students but Grace dosn't depend on your or my point of view or education. JESUS SAVES!

It sounds like what you're saying is I'm talking over your head. Which I probably am. I know that most people in the church have little personal knowledge of the Bible to have even a reasonable base knowledge of scripture from which to understand what I'm saying. I'm well aware of this.

 

[mailmandan]

please, quit trying to make a science project out of salvation. The printing press was only invented about 500 years ago. Since there were almost no books, most people couldn't read. Jews being a notable exception. Reading the scrolls was required in order to become a man. Their was no new testament before the Counsel of Trent. People still got saved.

If someone wants to read the bible and sees it as some kind of theological OBSTICLE course, and argue like opposing lawers about the finer points of scripture, Fine, they'll make goo d seminary students but Grace dosn't depend on your or my point of view or education. JESUS SAVES!

I made my point (that Ralph twisted) in post #476. - https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/what-must-i-do-to-be-saved.177680/page-24

 

[Ralph-]

I made my point (that Ralph twisted) in post #476. - https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/what-must-i-do-to-be-saved.177680/page-24

No, what happened is your presentation did not stand up to cross examination.

I have to say, I'm really disappointed in you. I thought if anyone here would be able to honestly acknowledge, or at least just respect some additional insight about this subject outside of their own it would be you. I was wrong.

 

[gb9]

It sounds like what you're saying is I'm talking over your head. Which I probably am. I know that most people in the church have little personal knowledge of the Bible to have even a reasonable base knowledge of scripture from which to understand what I'm saying. I'm well aware of this.

hey ralphie, got a question- does Jesus save us, or does Jesus give us a chance to be saved, but it is up to us to do our part? which one?