You people and you no works fallacy, if you think you can continue if sin and get to Heaven you are in for a big surprise. Scripture does say that we are not saved by works, but it speaking of dead works done before faith in Christ. Works outside of faith are dead and faith without works is equally dead. However I do not see many claiming our faith cannot save us. Why is that? Our keeping ourselves unspotted from sin remaining clean and faithful to God and His Christ are essential to receive eternal life.
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C
Repentance is not turning from (i.e., forsaking) one's sins, nor even being willing to turn from one's sins; Repentance is turning to the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved from one's sins (Romans 4:5). Salvation is receiving; NOT giving. Eternal life is the free gift of God (Romans 5:15;6:23), paid for by Jesus' precious literal blood (1st Peter 1:18,19). To be saved we simply need to come as a guilty sinner to Jesus Christ to have our sins washed away by His redeeming blood (1st John 1:7). Salvation is turning to Jesus to be forgiven of one's sins; NOT turning from one's sins in order to be forgiven by Jesus.
But you said repentance is changing one's mind, not turning to anyone in particular (eg Jesus). You just said now that "Repentance is turning to the Lord Jesus Christ ". How do you explain then that John was giving the baptism of repentance, and people were coming to be baptised by him, before people even knew Christ or who He was?
Well in the case of John the baptist, people turned from their sins first , were baptised, and then when Jesus Christ came, they believed on Him. The bible says if we confess our sins , God is faithful to forgive us. The forgiveness is usually conditional upon our confession or repentance. How can God forgive someone , if they keep on doing the same wrong things and aren't willing to change?
C
I said Repentance is 'changing one's mind'. Yes. And now you say that I'm saying turn toward Jesus? Yes. Absolutely. In the Biblical context, what do you think they are saying change your mind about? About Jesus of course! The Jews expected the coming Messiah to be different than how Jesus actually came. They expected this ruler to rule over a Kingdom, not a sacrificial lamb. That's why they didn't accept Jesus. Bascially, to repent in this context means ---Change your mind! Jesus Christ IS the Messiah! Jesus is the son of God! Repent and believe in Jesus Christ!
C
No one can repent unless God grants repentance. All of salvation, including repentance and faith, is a result of God drawing us, opening our eyes, and changing our hearts. God's longsuffering leads us to repentance (2 Peter 3:9), as does His kindness (Romans 2:4).
OSAS is a lie from Satan. Who else would want you to think that you can get saved , and then continue to sin, living in rebellion to God and His word, walking the path that leads to destruction, refusing to do the will of the Father and still go to Heaven? Only Satan would want you to think this.
Of course I do not commit unrepentant, habitual sin, if I did then I would not belong to Christ.
1st John 3
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
It is easy to tell a christian from a sinner, and it is not by what they say, but how they live.
Of course I do not commit unrepentant, habitual sin, if I did then I would not belong to Christ.
1st John 3
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
It is easy to tell a christian from a sinner, and it is not by what they say, but how they live.
C
Jesus says in John:
John 5:24 states: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."
"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."
—1st John 5:13
—1st John 5:13
God is not a liar. God has promised salvation to all those who trust upon the name of Jesus Christ... “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.” God gave us the rainbow as a token that He is an honest God Who keep His promises. Yet, those who deny Eternal Security call God a liar.
C
Eternal life cannot be lost, because it is not ours to give. Salvation is of God alone. Our only part in salvation is to BELIEVE... "This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent" (John 6:29). The greatest argument against those who teach that salvation can be lost is this... If salvation can be lost by our own sinful words, attitudes, or actions, then self-righteousness is part of salvation. Romans 10:3-4 condemns such thinking... "For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."
Those who claim that salvation can be lost are guilty of teaching salvation by self-righteousness. If I have to maintain a certain degree of faithfulness to God, a holy lifestyle, and a certain amount of faith to remain saved, then I am earning my own salvation. Ephesians 2:8,9 clearly refute such thinking... "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." No one deserves to go to Heaven. We all deserve Hellfire. We need HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS to be saved (2nd Corinthians 5:21); and not our own.
Those who claim that salvation can be lost are guilty of teaching salvation by self-righteousness. If I have to maintain a certain degree of faithfulness to God, a holy lifestyle, and a certain amount of faith to remain saved, then I am earning my own salvation. Ephesians 2:8,9 clearly refute such thinking... "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." No one deserves to go to Heaven. We all deserve Hellfire. We need HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS to be saved (2nd Corinthians 5:21); and not our own.
C
We also have a verse that warns us of the deceitfulness of our old sinful nature, which in a sense is warning us of the potential, if not the likelihood, of daily sin. "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" (Jeremiah 17:9). Even the apostle Paul was frustrated with his own battle against indwelling sin. "For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members" (Romans 7:22-23). This capacity to sin led him to cry in desperation, “What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death?” (Romans 7:24).
1John 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1John 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
also here nothing about repenting. why must we mankind, keep trying to convince ourselves that there must be something we have to do, ourselves in order to abtain salvation? when God gives it as A gift:
For the WAGES OF SIN is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.Rom 6: 23
For the WAGES OF SIN is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.Rom 6: 23
1jo 2:1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
it also says if any man, not when a man sins, we have a choice. to say that we have to sin daily is to call God a Lair for the same God that inspired 1 john 1:8 also inspired :
1co 10:13There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
2pe 2:9The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:God empowers us to not only endure our temptations but power to resist those temptations . so how do we explain 1jo 1:8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.I have Blood running through my veins you can't see the Blood but it is there, if I cut myself and allow the blood out, then you can see my Blood
i have sin in my flesh Mt 5:28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to LUST after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
but you can't see my sin if I do something that releases my sin then you can see it. so we will have sin as long as we are in the flesh , but we don't have to sin.
Ro 6:14For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.Ro 6:15What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
#1 Believeth is a continual tense, it means he who believes on me and conitnues to believe on me will have eternal life.
#2 How we know that we have eternal life is because we have received the holy Spirit and are walking in holiness.
#3 You are right God is not a liar, your understanding of what He has said because of false teachers is wrong.
Eternal life cannot be lost, however you do not receive it until this life is over, and you have endured remaining faithful to Christ until either you die or get raptured.
It always boggles my mind when people quote this verse to excuse their sin. Do you ignore all the scripture that surrounds this verse?
1st John 1
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1st John 2
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
There is no excuse for sin here, matter of fact there is no question that this passage supports my view, and if you continue in sin it is because you are no christian.
#2 How we know that we have eternal life is because we have received the holy Spirit and are walking in holiness.
#3 You are right God is not a liar, your understanding of what He has said because of false teachers is wrong.
Eternal life cannot be lost, however you do not receive it until this life is over, and you have endured remaining faithful to Christ until either you die or get raptured.
It always boggles my mind when people quote this verse to excuse their sin. Do you ignore all the scripture that surrounds this verse?
1st John 1
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1st John 2
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
There is no excuse for sin here, matter of fact there is no question that this passage supports my view, and if you continue in sin it is because you are no christian.
I believe this to be scriptures and I also believe that if we slip and sin that we don't lose our relationship with the Father but rather only our fellowship look at all the times israel failed God , let Him down, turned theirs backs on Him, and in revelation He is still ready to restore them and is has been their God the whole time in between. I want one person to step up and say that all through History that God was not God of The Jews. I believe that we should live righteous after we have called upon His name but not to keep us saved, but merely because we are saved and it is our reson service Romans 12:1-2 .there is no way one can save themselves and there is no way one can keep himself saved . this is the lie the devil is trying to deceive us by, is that Jesus was Not good enogh for our salvation But rather we have to do it ourselves, then our faith is not in Jesus, but rather we boast look at me God I kept myself saved ain't I good. My salvation present, past and future is up to Jesus and him alone .
Joh 14:6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
yes count me in the camp of Once saved always saved, For Jesus did it for me.
K
I made the following posts under the thread "What is repentance?" and I feel like that both are appropriate responses to this conversation as well...
True repentance is about fully understanding what Christ did on the cross and loving Him more than loving your desires of the flesh. Sure we all struggle, no man is perfect however, it is that burning desire for more of God that God accounts for righteousness. To truly be saved means learning to trust God fully.
There's a huge difference in simply believing in God and actually trusting in God. Many people believe in God yet you rarely see good fruit. The fruit of one who actually trusts in God is living a lifestyle committed to obedience and following His word. Salvation is more than a simple belief, it is a way of life.
When Jesus said "If you love me then obey my commandments.", Jesus was not implying that works will save you. So much is lost actually lost in the translation. What Jesus was truly saying is this: "If you love me then put your trust in me, obey me to see if my word holds true."
Those who truly love God are obedient not because they have to be in order to be saved but they do so out of trust. They love the Lord enough to know that in order to truly trust God we must walk in obedience. This is what is means to have good works.
If you ever want to be delivered from habitual sin, this point is key.... I would know!
True repentance is about fully understanding what Christ did on the cross and loving Him more than loving your desires of the flesh. Sure we all struggle, no man is perfect however, it is that burning desire for more of God that God accounts for righteousness. To truly be saved means learning to trust God fully.
There's a huge difference in simply believing in God and actually trusting in God. Many people believe in God yet you rarely see good fruit. The fruit of one who actually trusts in God is living a lifestyle committed to obedience and following His word. Salvation is more than a simple belief, it is a way of life.
When Jesus said "If you love me then obey my commandments.", Jesus was not implying that works will save you. So much is lost actually lost in the translation. What Jesus was truly saying is this: "If you love me then put your trust in me, obey me to see if my word holds true."
Those who truly love God are obedient not because they have to be in order to be saved but they do so out of trust. They love the Lord enough to know that in order to truly trust God we must walk in obedience. This is what is means to have good works.
If you ever want to be delivered from habitual sin, this point is key.... I would know!
C
Do we have a license to sin once we are saved? Of course not. But for you to say that you no longer sin is living in denial. If you no longer sin...then your a better man than the Apostle Paul who wrote that he was still the "chief sinner" long AFTER he was saved. Nowhere in my posts has there been an excuse or approving of sin. The fact is that we continue to sin after we have been saved. Do we sin a much as before we were saved? A truly born again person would certainly NOT sin as much after we are saved because of our love for Jesus Christ. A saved person also has the Holy Spirit within us to convict us when we do sin. Your self rightous error is that you feel you need to stop sinning in order to get saved. Why do you continue to feel that you can earn your way into Heaven? What horrible torment you must go through on a daily basis thinking you can lose your salvation. How many sins do you need to commit to lose your salvation? When you do lose it, what works do you have to do to get your salvation back? Will 4 sins lose your salvation? 10? 1000?? How many? Give me a figure? I also want a figure on how many good works you need to do to get your salvation back. 521? 63?
As far as you saying that you don't receive eternal life until we die, that's a lie. We have a downpayment on God's promise of eternal life. God is so loving that he seals us with the Holy Spirit NOW to show us that believers do indeed already possess eternal life...
Our salvation rests upon the redeeming work of Jesus Christ; and not upon our own self-righteousness. However, no believer has God's permission to sin and Hebrews 12:6-8 promises that God will chastise his children who do live in sin. No genuine believer can live in sin and truly be happy, because the Holy Spirit of God will convict. Nevertheless, our salvation is not conditional upon our works, good or bad. Salvation is the unconditional gift of God—paid for by Jesus' precious redeeming blood (1st Peter 1:18,19).
Watchmen, how are you doing maintaing your salvation since yesterday? Good or not so good? Did you sin today and your in danger of losing your salvation? If so, you should start working harder at it to maintain it.
P.S. Don't forget that there are sins of omission. That means that there are things you should have done but did not.
As far as you saying that you don't receive eternal life until we die, that's a lie. We have a downpayment on God's promise of eternal life. God is so loving that he seals us with the Holy Spirit NOW to show us that believers do indeed already possess eternal life...
"...ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory" —Ephesians 1:13,14
Our salvation rests upon the redeeming work of Jesus Christ; and not upon our own self-righteousness. However, no believer has God's permission to sin and Hebrews 12:6-8 promises that God will chastise his children who do live in sin. No genuine believer can live in sin and truly be happy, because the Holy Spirit of God will convict. Nevertheless, our salvation is not conditional upon our works, good or bad. Salvation is the unconditional gift of God—paid for by Jesus' precious redeeming blood (1st Peter 1:18,19).
Watchmen, how are you doing maintaing your salvation since yesterday? Good or not so good? Did you sin today and your in danger of losing your salvation? If so, you should start working harder at it to maintain it.
P.S. Don't forget that there are sins of omission. That means that there are things you should have done but did not.
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