Matt 3:7-10, "But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them; O brood of vipers, who has warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bring forth fruits befitting repentance! And do not think you can say to yourselves: We have Abraham as our father! For I say to you that Yahweh is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones! And the ax is already laid against the root of the trees. Therefore, every tree which does not bear righteous fruit is cut down, and cast into the fire."
What Outward Observances of the Law Equals!
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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ahhaha
K
Yes Jesus did say that to the young ruler, yet the point He was making in this passage to was that the young ruler and the Pharisees did not keep the whole law they claimed. For Jesus made a point that even though the ruler had kept the 10 commandments he still neglected the more important part of the law, and that is love.
The 10 commandments and your walk mean nothing if it is not done in love.......
But now the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD WITHOUT THE LAW is manifested, being witnessed by the LAW AND THE PROPHETS; Even the righteousness of GOD which is by faith OF JESUS CHRIST unto ALL and UPON ALL them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being JUSTIFIED FREELY by HIS GRACE through the redemption that is in CHRIST JESUS....
What law was Paul practicing as a Pharisee the Law of Yahweh or the Babylonain Talmud (oral law)?
And if you mean "outwardly kept law" as in said they did but in reality did not at all, then I agree. If you are trying to say they kept Yahweh's Law Scripture says this is not so;
Yahchanan (John) 7:19, "Was not the Law given to you through Mosheh? And yet none of you keep the Law! Why do you seek to kill Me?"
The entire society respect the pharisees law as if it were the Law of Yahweh that is why Yahshua went to such lengths to put a difference between the two.
I have to say I think the majority of us debating here comes from our differening views of what the pharisees actually did, which is a key principle to understand if one wants to understand the teachings of Messiah, and any who say we dont need to know that...
And if you mean "outwardly kept law" as in said they did but in reality did not at all, then I agree. If you are trying to say they kept Yahweh's Law Scripture says this is not so;
Yahchanan (John) 7:19, "Was not the Law given to you through Mosheh? And yet none of you keep the Law! Why do you seek to kill Me?"
The entire society respect the pharisees law as if it were the Law of Yahweh that is why Yahshua went to such lengths to put a difference between the two.
I have to say I think the majority of us debating here comes from our differening views of what the pharisees actually did, which is a key principle to understand if one wants to understand the teachings of Messiah, and any who say we dont need to know that...
1. What was the purpose of the LAW?
2. Other than Jesus has one man kept the entire LAW?
3. Does KEEPING the LAW save ONES eternal SOUL? Refer to 1 and 2 on the list
4. If your break the least of the commandments of the LAW what are you guilty of?
5. Do you KEEP every LAW that GOD gave?
6. Is our salvation based upon adherence to the law or GRACE?
7. Is the law of faith?
8. Moses and the LAW led the people to the promise land, but did MOSES take then into the PROMISE LAND or was it a SAVIOR (JOSHUA) that LED them into the promise LAND?
2. Other than Jesus has one man kept the entire LAW?
3. Does KEEPING the LAW save ONES eternal SOUL? Refer to 1 and 2 on the list
4. If your break the least of the commandments of the LAW what are you guilty of?
5. Do you KEEP every LAW that GOD gave?
6. Is our salvation based upon adherence to the law or GRACE?
7. Is the law of faith?
8. Moses and the LAW led the people to the promise land, but did MOSES take then into the PROMISE LAND or was it a SAVIOR (JOSHUA) that LED them into the promise LAND?
1. To show us how we should carry ourselves, to show us our faults, to show us the character of Yahweh, because the universe NEEDS to be governed by something, if there is no Law there os no transgression. If there is no Law everything satan is doing is just fine and dandy....Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."
2. No the Messiah is the ONLY man that ever was flawless concerning the Law of Yahweh.
3. No. Only Yahweh can do that, period.
4. Breaking all of them.
5. No, but I do try to follow all the ones that apply to me. (NO I don't pick and choose, Levite Laws are not for me, thus THEY don't apply to me)
6. you said, "Is our salvation based upon adherence to the law or GRACE?" Our salvation depends on our faith and works, period. Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, (in conformity) with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."Mattithyah 19:17-21, "But He said to him: Why do you question Me about righteousness? There is only One Who is the standard of perfection, and that is Yahweh; so if you would enter into life, keep the Laws of Yahweh. He then asked Yahshua; Which ones? Yahshua said: You shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery. You shall not steal. You shall not bear false testimony. Honor your father and mother, and; You shall love your neighbor as yourself. The young man said to Him; All these things I have kept from my youth up; what do I yet lack? Yahshua said to him: If you want to come to the perfection of Yahweh, go and sell of what you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and you will be walking in Yahweh's ways, and following Me."
7. Is the law of faith? Im guessing you saying "what is" The Law of faith is following everything Yahweh says. Doubt that? Lets let Scripture show us this is so;Heb 4:2, "For this message was preached to us, as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not benefit them, because they did not share in the faith of those who obeyed. "Heb 3:16-19, "For some, when they had heard, rebelled. But not all rebelled who came out of Egypt through Mosheh. But with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? And to whom did He vow that they would not enter into His rest, but to those who did not obey?So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief."
8. "Moses and the LAW led the people to the promise land, but did MOSES take then into the PROMISE LAND or was it a SAVIOR (JOSHUA) that LED them into the promise LAND?"
No, Yahweh LEAD the people to the promised land, not Mosheh and the Law... And what does Mosheh not entering Israyl have to do with this? Did the Israylites bring Yahweh's Law into the land? Does the real Savior bring Yahweh's Law into the promised land? Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh." Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected." Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."
Do we then do away with the Law through the faith? Yes we ignore it!... WAIT.... the verses does not go like that, hold on, let me copy and paste it;
Romans 3:31, "Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law."
1. It was our schoolmaster that points us to CHRIST
2. NO ONLY JESUS which makes his sacrifice for sin acceptable in the sight of the Father
3. NO, Salvation is by Grace dia faith as NO flesh shall be justified in his sight by the keeping of the law
4. Agreed, guilty of them all
5. NO..impossible as there is not a just man upon the earth that does good and sins not
6. If it is of law it is NO LONGER GRACE..BY GRACE are you saved dia FAITH
7. And the law is NOT OF FAITH Galatians 3:12
8. And I have led you forty years in the wilderness....Deuteronomy 29:5 and Moses representing the law SINNED once in the wilderness (struck the rock x2) and was not allowed to enter the promise land as the LAW will NEVER deliver anyone from the wilderness of sin into the promise land as it takes a savior, the savior JESUS
2. NO ONLY JESUS which makes his sacrifice for sin acceptable in the sight of the Father
3. NO, Salvation is by Grace dia faith as NO flesh shall be justified in his sight by the keeping of the law
4. Agreed, guilty of them all
5. NO..impossible as there is not a just man upon the earth that does good and sins not
6. If it is of law it is NO LONGER GRACE..BY GRACE are you saved dia FAITH
7. And the law is NOT OF FAITH Galatians 3:12
8. And I have led you forty years in the wilderness....Deuteronomy 29:5 and Moses representing the law SINNED once in the wilderness (struck the rock x2) and was not allowed to enter the promise land as the LAW will NEVER deliver anyone from the wilderness of sin into the promise land as it takes a savior, the savior JESUS
Why not quote the verses immediately before that verse like.....
Therefore we conclude that a man is JUSTIFIED by faith without the deeds of the law..
Is he God of the Jews only? is he not also of he Gentiles? YES of the Gentiles also:
Seeing it is ONE God , which shall justify the circumcision BY FAITH, and the uncircumcision through FAITH.
Do we then make VOID the law through FAITH? God forbid: yea, we ESTABLISH the LAW.
Therefore we conclude that a man is JUSTIFIED by faith without the deeds of the law..
Is he God of the Jews only? is he not also of he Gentiles? YES of the Gentiles also:
Seeing it is ONE God , which shall justify the circumcision BY FAITH, and the uncircumcision through FAITH.
Do we then make VOID the law through FAITH? God forbid: yea, we ESTABLISH the LAW.
it is the same law that Jesus lived out perfectly....so nothing is wrong with the law...but with man(flesh)...so man must submit his flesh unto death and live according to the Spirit of Christ to fulfil the righteousness of the law...
[SUP]
3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
1 John 2:6
He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
[SUP]
3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
1 John 2:6
He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
The law was never removed.....but in Christ through death one is removed from the penalty of the law which is death....for the law has no power over the dead...and those who are dead to the flesh are alive in Christ and live as he lived...walk as he walked and talk as he talked...they are the ones he will raise in the last day...anyone found not abiding in Him falls under the law
John 15 King James Version (KJV)
15 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15 King James Version (KJV)
15 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.