What word stumbles many in 1 Tim. 2:12, speaking of woman not to ”teach or have...”?

[crosspreacher]

Re: What word stumbles many in 1 Tim. 2:12, speaking of woman not to ”teach or have..

We should obey to our pastor as God gave him to rule over us. For someone to rule over the church, he must be a man.not woman because the woman must keep silent and cannot teach. Paul had not ordain them to teach.
If you let women to teach men, you are against Paul.

 

[GreenNnice]

Re: What word stumbles many in 1 Tim. 2:12, speaking of woman not to ”teach or have..

We should obey to our pastor as God gave him to rule over us. For someone to rule over the church, he must be a man.not woman because the woman must keep silent and cannot teach. Paul had not ordain them to teach.
If you let women to teach men, you are against Paul.

OK, bro, suit yourself. But, God NEVER in Scripture says a "We should obey our MAN PASTOR ONLY as God gave him rule over us."

In fact, nowhere in Scripture, is where you will find ANY Scripture saying "Woman are not to pastor a church." It's NOT in there.

And, furthermore, 1 Tim. 2:12 is speaking of same ideas of 1 Cor. 14:34-35, laywomen, wives, who are with husbands and sit in the pew, it is NOT speaking of a woman who is 'called' to pastor a church, and, yes, pastor over not just women, but, you men, too, especially PASTORING men that don't read words well enough before deciding to yell at one of miladies on here , LOL. let's take the name, angela, for example, and, who say 'Junia was a woman ! ' when that fact was pointed out by the poster (gasp, alas! a woman) in her earlier posts.

One thing about guys too, they get toooo emotional preaching, sometimes, even the best of them while women, hmmm, they are cool and collected, I like the word 'sang froid,' they are confident, too, because Christ has touched their life to come to the pulpit in a way that is going to be direct as a lightning bolt from Cupid through heart. Don't kid yourself, it's pretty obvious that women pastors are not the norm in the bible, like never are there woman preachers. But just because something is not the norm, and, never happened in one time period does not mean it never will happen in another. Paul's time was directly against women, their rights were very limited as Paul speaks both in 1 Cor. 14:34-35 and 1 Tim. 2:11-15. "Childbearing' being their best norm, so to speak. This is not to say that is bad, it is not, and, for most women, THIS path is the norm, get married, get a husband, and, have kids, and, probably, teaching women is a good idea, as Paul expresses it in 1 Tim. 4 but sometimes God works mysteriously and a woman can even teach men in bible class, as He wills it so, and, there WILL be good fruit. And, if not good fruit, and, bad, instead, then, that could happen to a man preaching just as easy as a woman preaching. The key is following the Lord and He will lead that church His way.
Every church is His bride, every church should follow His best for it.

The Israelites had God Himself their guide and ruler and king but they complained and murmored and whined and so God sent them that nice guy, Saul, who was overbearing and treated them MUCH worse than God would ever treat them. In fact, God's rule was good--punishment His rule was to some, but GOOD, all the time, God was doing GOOD ! Saul was bad, even subscribed to evil spirits and demons toward the end of his life and chasing David around in hopes of killing Him. Still, Saul was 'God's annointed,' so.....

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You have GOT to be kidding me. God puts a pastor in charge of a church to 'rule over them'??? No, no, no, a pastor = a shepherd, and he leads the flock (church God's apponted him to) , crossedpreacher. C'mon, bro, don't be so crossed up

 

[Angela53510]

Re: What word stumbles many in 1 Tim. 2:12, speaking of woman not to ”teach or have..

I find it very frustrating that I post the Greek, links to scholarly research, and I get no discussion of my posts.

Only the same tired arguments with nothing to back them up. Please post the reasons using Greek, and contemporaneous sources. Some decent hermeneutics and exegetics would also be highly appreciated.

You are spouting opinions which are based on bad translations of the Bible. When you can discuss this at an intelligent level, you will find that Paul supported women totally on the issue of women being in ministry. What he did not like was out of control ex-priestesses of Artemis coming into Timothy's church and trying to dominate. And I think that is a true statement. That was not for all time, and I bet Paul is still rueing the fact that his words have been so twisted as to disenfranchise half of the Christians in the world, who are gifted, called, intelligent and trained from doing the job that God has called them to do.

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Gal 3:28

Those are Paul's words, not mine!

 

[GreenNnice]

Re: What word stumbles many in 1 Tim. 2:12, speaking of woman not to ”teach or have..

I find it very frustrating that I post the Greek, links to scholarly research, and I get no discussion of my posts.

Only the same tired arguments with nothing to back them up. Please post the reasons using Greek, and contemporaneous sources. Some decent hermeneutics and exegetics would also be highly appreciated.

You are spouting opinions which are based on bad translations of the Bible. When you can discuss this at an intelligent level, you will find that Paul supported women totally on the issue of women being in ministry. What he did not like was out of control ex-priestesses of Artemis coming into Timothy's church and trying to dominate. And I think that is a true statement. That was not for all time, and I bet Paul is still rueing the fact that his words have been so twisted as to disenfranchise half of the Christians in the world, who are gifted, called, intelligent and trained from doing the job that God has called them to do.

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Gal 3:28

Those are Paul's words, not mine!

Preach it, sister !

What about the word, 'over,' does that warrant any discussion ? The Greek definition of the word "over" is contextually what? What does Paul mean by this prepositional phrase ?

Over a man = domineering control over a man
Over a man = choice over a man as in order

Do verses immediately around it give any clue of the right understanding for us of the word 'over' for 'to teach or have authority over a man' 1 Tim. 2:12 verse ?

I may be looking like I am disproving my argument, do keep in mind, looks can be deceiving, for faith is not seen, and, a lack of faith could very well deceive you
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Here, for now, is Greek on the word, "authentein," and, Greek is what Paul spoke in in 1st century b.c., NOT ENGLISH . no comprende of it

The twelfth verse (italicized above) contains a rare Greek verb, found only here in the entire Bible. This word, authentein, is ordinarily translated "to bear rule" or "to usurp authority"; yet a study of other Greek literary sources reveals that it did not ordinarily have this meaning until the third or fourth century, well after the time of the New Testament. Essentially the word means "to thrust oneself. "Its earliest meanings are noteworthy, since they might provide a quite different understanding of a difficult text. We must also examine the closely related nouns authentia (later translated as "power"), authentes (after the New Testament period, "master") and the adjective authentikos, which still survives in English as "authentic." Although the usages prior to and during the New Testament period are few and far between, they are briefs of murder cases and once to mean suicide, as did Dio Cassius. Thucydides, Herodotus, and Aeschylus also use the word to denote one who slays with his own hand, and so does Euripides. The Jewish Philo, whose writings are contemporary with the New Testament, meant "self-murderer" by his use of the term.

 

[Stephen63]

Re: What word stumbles many in 1 Tim. 2:12, speaking of woman not to ”teach or have..

When folks proclaim that we must search out the context of the Scripture, that does not simply mean surrounding Scripture. It also means the historical context as well. Both Corinth and Ephesus had goddess worship as the primary source. The Temple of Artemis (Diana) of Ephesus was one of the great wonders of the world. This exalted the women's role in that the worship of Diana required a high priest as well as many priestesses. Both Corinth and Ephesus' churches have problems with idol worship and its attitudes mixing into the church, just like when the children of Israel went into the promised land and took with them a mixture of beliefs from Egypt, as well as adding to the mix the idol worship of the Canaanites.