Whatever Happened to the Ten Commandments?

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K

Karraster

Guest
#61
True, I did make that mistake. I was so caught up in showing the Ten as example that I didn't consider the errant order those I posted appeared in. Great catch! (y)

The "tablets" image you posted is from that same site where I got the "traditional version". It doesn't call them incorrect however, the author calls them counterfeit and the work of Satan. I don't blame Satan for clouding my thoughts looking at the traditional version. It was my error in not being more careful by taking the image from Google images to post, and not reading the linked site behind them.

From the site: "It might surprise you, but the Ten Commandments that we traditional know is really NOT the same with the Ten Commandments written in the Bible. When I first discovered this, I was stupefied how Satan was very successful in deceiving many people to accept a counterfeit Ten Commandments. "
Thank you for clarifying. I appreciate it!
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
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#62
Jeremiah said the New Covenant would replace the Old Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31–34). Moses said the Old Covenant was the Ten Commandments (Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:13; Deuteronomy 9:9 etc.). And Jesus said: “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.” (Matthew 5:17–18).
For those who are not in Christ, meaning they reject Christ, are they still under the Mosaic law?

What I mean, does the Mosaic law stand for unbelievers to condemn them until heaven and earth pass and all be fulfilled?
 

Whispered

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#63
The 10 Commandments cannot be replaced or pass away for they are spiritual laws, and laws of love towards God and people which are the 2 greatest commandments.

For in the Old Testament there was the spiritual laws to love God and people, and the physical laws since it was a physical covenant with blessings only on this earth not in the spiritual realm.

In the New Testament it is spiritual laws and not the physical laws for Jesus took the physical ordinances of Israel out of the way nailing them to His cross for they were contrary to us which means they had no bearing on spiritual salvation.

But the spiritual laws can never pass away.

Paul said we do not void out the law through faith but we establish the law, live up to it, which we can do by the Spirit that was not available to receive in this sense in the Old Testament, which are the laws of love, moral laws, which Paul said the law is spiritual, holy, just, and good.

Jesus fulfilled the law by being a sinless man and fulfilling all the roles associated with Israel concerning their operation which He is the perfect Saint, perfect King, perfect High Priest, perfect Prophet, and the temple and the sacrifice, and whatever else He had to fulfill which has to be done in the physical realm on earth.

But Jesus has not fulfilled the role of perfect King on earth for He came as a servant and not to rule so that must be done.

That is what the millennial reign of Christ is about fulfilling the role of perfect King on earth and ruling the world.

So for people that say the millennial reign is spiritual and does not take place on earth cannot be true for it must be done on earth for it to be effective.

When Jesus fights the world and defeats them He will spare one sixth of them and Jesus and the saints will rule over them, and in that day the LORD shall be King over all the earth, and there shall be one LORD and His name one which none of the heathen will acknowledge any God or religious figure but Jesus.

When the millennial reign is over then Jesus has fulfilled the role of perfect King on earth, and the law is fulfilled, and heaven and earth will pass away and there will be a new heaven and earth wherein dwells righteousness where sin has never been and sin will never be, the New Jerusalem, and the angels and the saints will remember nothing prior to the New Jerusalem for the former earth shall not be remembered, nor come to mind for it is associated with sin and rebellion.

The 10 commandments can never be done away with for they are spiritual laws not physical laws, and are laws of love towards God and people.

Which is why when the rich man asked Jesus how he can inherit eternal life Jesus told him to obey the 6 commandments of the 10 commandments that have to do with loving people not offending them, for love works no ill towards their neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law, which the rich man said he obeyed them from youth which Jesus said he lacked one thing and that is to sell all he had that was not a necessity and give to the poor for that is part of loving people to put people above our wants that is not a need.

Concerning the sabbath day that is part of the physical ordinances that Jesus took out of the way for it is a physical sabbath and a physical rest and applied to this earth.

But Jesus went away to prepare a place for the saints the new earth, and when a person receives the Spirit the kingdom of God is within them and they belong to that spiritual kingdom.

Which in the Old Testament, Isaiah 28, God said concerning the New Testament that with stammering lips and another tongue will He speak to these people saying this is the rest wherewith you may cause the weary to rest, and this is the refreshing, yet they would not hear.

So it is a spiritual sabbath by the Spirit in the New Testament and the saints belong to the new earth.

For Jesus took the physical sabbath out of the way nailing it to His cross so let no person judge you concerning that, or meats for God said all meat is good and nothing to be refused for it is spiritual now.
Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever. The Epistle to the Hebrews chapter 13:8. I think of all those Old Testament texts that inform us God said His laws are forever, and how His Sabbath is to be a statute through all the generations, and then wonder how New Testament people can claim the opposite according to their tradition.
 

Whispered

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#64
For those who are not in Christ, meaning they reject Christ, are they still under the Mosaic law?

What I mean, does the Mosaic law stand for unbelievers to condemn them until heaven and earth pass and all be fulfilled?
The Epistle to the churches in Corinth, 1st Corinthians chapter 5 tells us we're not to judge by what God's law says those who are outside the church; unbelievers.
This was I think the case when Jesus gave the Great Commission to His Disciples.

The Book of Matthew chapter 28:16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17 And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[b] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#65
Perhaps you should read the chapter in Genesis that pertains to Abraham and Sarah his wife. God punished Pharaoh and Pharaoh rewarded Abraham. God did not punish Abraham. And all was to fulfill Gods plan for Abraham.
You mean God told Abraham to lie about Sarah? Are you a mormon?
 

Nebuchadnezzer

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Feb 8, 2019
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#66
The Epistle to the churches in Corinth, 1st Corinthians chapter 5 tells us we're not to judge by what God's law says those who are outside the church; unbelievers.
This was I think the case when Jesus gave the Great Commission to His Disciples.

The Book of Matthew chapter 28:16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17 And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[b] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
How can I judge others outside the church for not following the Mosaic Law if I too do not follow the Mosaic Law?

My questions are just questions, for real. I am not trying to push a doctrine with my questions. I am trying to learn.

Here are my questions again:
For those who are not in Christ, meaning they reject Christ, are they still under the Mosaic law?
What I mean, does the Mosaic law stand for unbelievers to condemn them until heaven and earth pass and all be fulfilled?

I have traditionally learned that the Mosaic Law was a conditional convenant that God many only with the Israelites. However, man is to die once and then face judgement. What laws (or morals) will man be judged upon then if not from the Mosaic Law? Is it only the moral laws?

Now I think maybe Romans 3 provides some answers to my questions. Help please.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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#67
For those who are not in Christ, meaning they reject Christ, are they still under the Mosaic law?

What I mean, does the Mosaic law stand for unbelievers to condemn them until heaven and earth pass and all be fulfilled?
Before and during the Mosaic law, the law written on the heart, the Two Great Commandments condemn everyone. We all know how we want others to treat us but we always treat them in ways less than that = sin. But in the New Birth, we can rise above our sinfulness and treat others as equals. Like the early church did in Acts.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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#68
How can you say there is no love in the ten commandments? Can you steal from people when you love? How about telling tales about them? Name one that isn't a way of loving. We know that to accept Christ's way is not to legalistically obey, but to obey with the spirit of the Lord, but that does not mean that we should not use the commandments as a guide to the spirit of the lord.
The TCs say do nothing. The Two Great Commandments say Love and do unto others as you would have them do unto you. People in the graveyard keep the Ten Commandments perfectly by doing nothing.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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#69
No one can fulfill the 2 Great Commandments either. Love with all your heart, mind and soul is like the mathematical equivalent of infinity.

You cannot reach infinity.
The Spirit of God in the hearts of believers is infinite. Plus, we have Christ's imputed righteousness.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#70
How can you say there is no love in the ten commandments? Can you steal from people when you love? How about telling tales about them? Name one that isn't a way of loving. We know that to accept Christ's way is not to legalistically obey, but to obey with the spirit of the Lord, but that does not mean that we should not use the commandments as a guide to the spirit of the lord.
That’s the point

it does not show you how to love

God is the one who empowers us to love, and when we love, by practice we do not break commands.

if we try to just follow the commands, where is our focus? well of course it is on self, how am I doing, what should I do, or not do.

when your focused on loving and serving, you do not need to focus on any command, because by practice they will be fulfilled in anything you do.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#71
Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever. The Epistle to the Hebrews chapter 13:8. I think of all those Old Testament texts that inform us God said His laws are forever, and how His Sabbath is to be a statute through all the generations, and then wonder how New Testament people can claim the opposite according to their tradition.
Just because Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever does not mean that the old covenant is the same as the new covenant.

The Word of God makes it quite clear that Sabbath observance was a sign between God and Israel: “The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested.” (Exodus 31:16-17)

In Deuteronomy 5, Moses restates the Ten Commandments to the next generation of Israelites. Here, after commanding Sabbath observance in verses 12–14, Moses gives the reason the Sabbath was given to the nation Israel: “Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.” (Deuteronomy 5:15)

Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel (Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3, 32; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31) that is not binding on Christians under the new covenant.

*Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#72
The Spirit of God in the hearts of believers is infinite. Plus, we have Christ's imputed righteousness.
Yes, because Christ has fulfilled the 2 Great Commandments, when God sees us, he sees us in Christ.

So he also sees us having fulfilled them too. That is what imputed righteousness is telling you.
 
Apr 17, 2019
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#73
Jesus was born under the Law and was the only human to live up to them with fidelity. But upon his death, Jesus freed those under the Law (including the basic Ten Words or Commandments) “by becoming a curse instead” of them. His death provided for the ‘blotting out of the handwritten document,’ it being nailed to the cross.—Ga 3:13; Col 2:13, 14.

Nevertheless, a study of the Law with its Ten Words is essential for Christians, for it reveals God’s viewpoint of matters, and it had “a shadow of the good things to come,” of the reality that belongs to the Christ. (Heb 10:1; Col 2:17; Ga 6:2)
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#74
Jeremiah said the New Covenant would replace the Old Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31–34). Moses said the Old Covenant was the Ten Commandments (Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:13; Deuteronomy 9:9 etc.). And Jesus said: “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.” (Matthew 5:17–18).

So how do we harmonize Jeremiah who says the New Covenant will replace the Ten Commandments? And Moses who confirms the Ten Commandments are the Old Covenant. With Jesus who says “one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.” Does this mean heaven and earth cannot end until he fulfills all? And that he would do this before the New Covenant could begin?

The solution is in the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus shows how to fulfill the Ten Commandments with the Two Great Commandments. The Two Great Commandments teach: “…. Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.” Luke 10:27 (KJV 1900) Calling for positive action based on love towards God and people.

In the parable of the Good Samaritan the passersby avoided the mugging victim. But they kept the Ten Commandments. They kept the eighth commandment by not stealing more from the victim while in a vulnerable position. But they still robbed him according to the Two Great Commandments. By not treating him as their equal and running to his aid.

So Why the Ten Commandments? The Ten Commandments aimed at controlling the wicked unbelievers in the nation. These were so wicked it took 40 years of toil to complete an eleven day journey from Egypt to Canaan. Wandering in the desert until all but faithful Caleb and Joshua dropped dead. God denied them the land promises because of their sin.

As Paul says: “But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;” 1 Timothy 1:8–10 (KJV 1900)

It is obvious Abraham, Abel, Job and other believers did not need the Law or they would have had it too. When God removed the unbelievers from Israel under Christ (Romans 11), he removed the Ten Commandments with them (Colossians 2:14). Leaving only the moral law in its spiritual application for believers.

During the closing years of the Old Covenant Jesus preached the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5-7). Showing the Ten Commandments were morally equal to the Two Great Commandments when understood. As with the Good Samaritan, passively not stealing from someone according to the Ten Commandments is still stealing if you owe them the same treatment you lavish on yourself. Not stealing under threat of death does not make you good. It only makes bad people not do badly under threat of death. Only when obeyed actively in love for God and others did a person keep the Ten at a level equal the Two Great Commandments.

Jesus showed how to fulfill the Law. If he fulfilled the Ten Commandments on the cross as the unbelieving Jews understood them. He would not have lusted after Pilate’s wife. Or stolen his spear. Or coveted the soldier’s shield, and such. And then he would have felt good about himself for not doing these when he wanted to. This is the level most kept the Ten Commandments as seen in the Pharisees. And then perhaps thanking God as the Pharisee that he is not like others who do such.

But when Jesus fulfilled the Two Great Commandments, he fulfilled the Ten Commandments in a proper way too. Because when spiritually understood they have equal moral value to the Two Great Commandments. (Matthew 22:40).

So how did Jesus fulfill the Law?

“And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.” Luke 10:27 (KJV 1900)

When Jesus fulfilled the Law on the cross, he Loved God with all his mind, body, soul, and heart and strength. And his neighbor as himself.

He gave all his body over to the worst death imaginable in love for God and enemies. He gave his entire mind and soul in love for God when he said “not my will but thy will be done”. And he gave his last ounce of strength in his love for God and enemies as we wrenched the last drop of blood from him. And he loved his enemies as his own self when he asked God to forgive them for killing him.

So Jesus when fulfilling the Two Great Commandments also fulfilled the Ten to the fullest extent. And in that he abolished them in their redundancy by nailing them to his cross (Colossians 2:14). So when we think of the Law as believers today, we see the Ten Commandments no longer in their elementary form. But in their spiritual form equal to the Two Great Commandments through the Sermon on the Mount. Providing a practical application of the Two Great Commandments for everyday life.

I would agree and also suggest. The letter of the law death which is signified by Moses as the law giver it represents the old covenant and Elias to repents the prophets was to represent the unseen power of God as the "law of faith" the new covenant.

.When mixed together both law the one seen the letter and the one not seen faith make the perfect or complete law spoken of in Psalm 19 . Apart from each no law.

The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple. The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes. Psalam 19: 7-8

Two Great Commandments for everyday life. Today if you hear his voice mix faith the unseen in what you see or hear and he will give us rest..

The rest( gospel) the rich man in the parable did not receive.( sola scriptura)

Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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#75
Just because Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever does not mean that the old covenant is the same as the new covenant.

The Word of God makes it quite clear that Sabbath observance was a sign between God and Israel: “The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested.” (Exodus 31:16-17)

In Deuteronomy 5, Moses restates the Ten Commandments to the next generation of Israelites. Here, after commanding Sabbath observance in verses 12–14, Moses gives the reason the Sabbath was given to the nation Israel: “Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.” (Deuteronomy 5:15)

Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel (Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3, 32; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31) that is not binding on Christians under the new covenant.

*Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
Those parts of the Old that Jesus reiterated in the New are. And Gentiles are grafted in, therefore one cannot say, oh, that's only for the Jews, when God grafted Gentiles = Nations, into the Covenant.
 

Whispered

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#77
The TCs say do nothing.
That is patently false.
Thou shalt not... is not saying, do nothing. It is the command against doing what comes after . Thou shalt not murder, etc... Are you here to actually discuss what is in scripture? Or are you here as a contrarian intending to mess with those who are in Christ.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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#78
That is patently false.
Thou shalt not... is not saying, do nothing. It is the command against doing what comes after . Thou shalt not murder, etc... Are you here to actually discuss what is in scripture? Or are you here as a contrarian intending to mess with those who are in Christ.
The moral law contained in the Ten Commandments need for sinners to not sin. = do nothing. Because whatever is not of faith is sin.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#80
Jesus was born under the Law and was the only human to live up to them with fidelity. But upon his death, Jesus freed those under the Law (including the basic Ten Words or Commandments) “by becoming a curse instead” of them. His death provided for the ‘blotting out of the handwritten document,’ it being nailed to the cross.—Ga 3:13; Col 2:13, 14.

Nevertheless, a study of the Law with its Ten Words is essential for Christians, for it reveals God’s viewpoint of matters, and it had “a shadow of the good things to come,” of the reality that belongs to the Christ. (Heb 10:1; Col 2:17; Ga 6:2)
Amen

but the law should never be used as a guide for christian growth, it was never given for that purpose