"When A Jew Rules the World: What the Bible Really Says about Israel in the Plan of God"

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Roar

Active member
Oct 14, 2021
165
46
28
#21
I have nothing against Jews in general and I believe that God restored the nation of Israel. But God's promised salvation was to Abraham, born in Ur of the Chaldees. The promise was that all the families of the earth would be blessed. Lord Jesus traces His human ancestry to Adam. Israel as a nation was an utter failure, except for brief periods of obedience to God. Even the elite, Abraham, David, Solomon and Elijah were flawed characters. I support Israel the nation. I believe God blesses the nations that support Israel, hence the decline of the once "Great" Britain. However, there is now no distinction between Jew and Gentile Christians. Lord Jesus is the Last Adam, not Moses, David, Isaiah or Elijah. Jews have no special claim on Jesus. They crucified Him.


God later confirms the promise to Abraham's son Isaac (Genesis 26:3), and then to Isaac's son Jacob (Genesis 28:13). The Book of Exodus describes the Promised Land in terms of the territory from the River of Egypt to the Euphrates river (Exodus 23:31).

Genesis 26:3, New King James Version

3 Dwell in this land, and I will be with you and bless you; for to you and your descendants I give all these lands, and I will perform the oath which I swore to Abraham your father.

Genesis 28:13, New King James Version

13 And behold, the Lord stood above it and said: “I am the Lord God of Abraham your father and the God of Isaac; the land on which you lie I will give to you and your descendants.
 

Roar

Active member
Oct 14, 2021
165
46
28
#22
I have nothing against Jews in general and I believe that God restored the nation of Israel. But God's promised salvation was to Abraham, born in Ur of the Chaldees. The promise was that all the families of the earth would be blessed. Lord Jesus traces His human ancestry to Adam. Israel as a nation was an utter failure, except for brief periods of obedience to God. Even the elite, Abraham, David, Solomon and Elijah were flawed characters. I support Israel the nation. I believe God blesses the nations that support Israel, hence the decline of the once "Great" Britain. However, there is now no distinction between Jew and Gentile Christians. Lord Jesus is the Last Adam, not Moses, David, Isaiah or Elijah. Jews have no special claim on Jesus. They crucified Him.
Correction: Our sins crucified Him as no power on earth could hold Him on that cross but He willing laid down His life for all our sins! If you want to see who crucified Him look in the mirror. Stop blaiming only the Jews.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#23
mmm Jesus didnt really want to rule the world though.
Remember how satan offered him all the kingdoms of this world and he didnt take it?

Because Jesus was destined to rule HEAVEN. What Jesus did was save people from this world, cos this world is going to be burned up. And then a new heaven and earth he will give those who are saved.

Jesus LOVED the world but didnt want to rule it. The God of this world (Satan) already has dominion. Jesus didnt want to join forces with Satan! lol
 

Roar

Active member
Oct 14, 2021
165
46
28
#24
mmm Jesus didnt really want to rule the world though.
Remember how satan offered him all the kingdoms of this world and he didnt take it?

Because Jesus was destined to rule HEAVEN. What Jesus did was save people from this world, cos this world is going to be burned up. And then a new heaven and earth he will give those who are saved.

Jesus LOVED the world but didnt want to rule it. The God of this world (Satan) already has dominion. Jesus didnt want to join forces with Satan! lol

Revelation 19-20 answers you question as Revelation 20:4 says "4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. " Read it all in context. As the Bible says He does rule it before the New Jerusalem and the New Earth comes in Revelation Chapter 21..
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,915
817
113
#25
mmm Jesus didnt really want to rule the world though.
Remember how satan offered him all the kingdoms of this world and he didnt take it?

Because Jesus was destined to rule HEAVEN. What Jesus did was save people from this world, cos this world is going to be burned up. And then a new heaven and earth he will give those who are saved.

Jesus LOVED the world but didnt want to rule it. The God of this world (Satan) already has dominion. Jesus didnt want to join forces with Satan! lol
Well...I'm not sure that's the notion we're meant to draw from the scene.

The Messiah wasn't just offered the kingdoms of the world. The offer was, receive all the kingdoms of the world if you will bow down to me. He rejected the condition because only the Father is to be worshipped.

Upon overcoming satan's temptations in the wilderness, The Messiah emerged preaching the kingdom where He said "my Father has given me all things." (John 3:35; 16:15).


Matthew 28:18
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,776
113
#26
How can anyone who claimes to have read the New Testament not hear Jesus Yeshua when He taught He had to go to His own people first.
Please notice who comes before Israel in this prophecy of Simeon in the temple:
Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: For mine eyes have seen thy salvation [Christ], which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel. (Luke 2:29-32)

It should be noted that it was the Holy Spirit who brought Simeon to the temple, and it was the Spirit who spoke through him. So firstly we find that Christ is the Salvation of "all people". Then He is the Light of the Gentiles. And finally He is the glory of Israel. That is God's order.

But Israel rejected Him, while the first people to worship Him were Gentile Magi, and the first converts of Christ were actually Samaritans (John 4). And whose faith in Israel impressed Christ to the point were He "marvelled"? It was a Roman centurion!

But what did God have to say about the Jews?
ROMANS 10: BUT THEY HAVE NOT ALL OBEYED THE GOSPEL
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

Who was Isaiah speaking about in verse 20? GENTILES. So today the Church is primarily Gentiles who will be kings and priests in the Kingdom of God.
 

Roar

Active member
Oct 14, 2021
165
46
28
#27
Please notice who comes before Israel in this prophecy of Simeon in the temple:
Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: For mine eyes have seen thy salvation [Christ], which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel. (Luke 2:29-32)

It should be noted that it was the Holy Spirit who brought Simeon to the temple, and it was the Spirit who spoke through him. So firstly we find that Christ is the Salvation of "all people". Then He is the Light of the Gentiles. And finally He is the glory of Israel. That is God's order.

But Israel rejected Him, while the first people to worship Him were Gentile Magi, and the first converts of Christ were actually Samaritans (John 4). And whose faith in Israel impressed Christ to the point were He "marvelled"? It was a Roman centurion!

But what did God have to say about the Jews?
ROMANS 10: BUT THEY HAVE NOT ALL OBEYED THE GOSPEL
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

Who was Isaiah speaking about in verse 20? GENTILES. So today the Church is primarily Gentiles who will be kings and priests in the Kingdom of God.


Romans 11
New King James Version


Israel’s Rejection Not Total
11 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, 3 “Lord, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life”? 4 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. [a]But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.
7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written:
“God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that they should not see
And ears that they should not hear,
To this very day.”
9 And David says:
“Let their table become a snare and a trap,
A stumbling block and a recompense to them.
10 Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see,
And bow down their back always.”
Israel’s Rejection Not Final
11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their [b]fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. 12 Now if their [c]fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!
13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. 15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and [d]fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, [e]goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own [f]opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be [g]saved, as it is written:
“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;

27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”
28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has [h]committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!
34 “For who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has become His counselor?”
35 “Or who has first given to Him
And it shall be repaid to him?”
36 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.


2 Timothy 3:16-17
New King James Version


16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for [a]instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
 

SomeDisciple

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2021
2,268
1,049
113
#28
I'd agree that "a Jew" isn't the best description of Jesus. He was obviously a lot more than "a Jew". He certainly didn't identify with the sects of Jews that had formed. (pharasees, saducees, essenes, et. al.)

"And Pilate asked him, Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answering said unto him, Thou sayest it."

"you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship.”
21Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews."

I think he definitely identified with, and was identified with the Jewish race and country as a whole, though.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,776
113
#29
Israel’s Rejection Not Total
I agree that God does have a future plan for redeemed and restored Israel after the Second Coming of Christ. The Church does not replace Israel as many have falsely taught.

What is really puzzling is that all of Israel did not believe on Yeshua ha Mashiach when He came to Israel as Jesus of Nazareth. And the mob in Jerusalem allowed themselves to be manipulated into crying out loudly "Crucify him!" "Crucify him!" According to the Acts of Pilate, there were demons among that crowd. But Pilate proved himself to be a coward, and God already knew this in advance.
 

Roar

Active member
Oct 14, 2021
165
46
28
#30
I'd agree that "a Jew" isn't the best description of Jesus. He was obviously a lot more than "a Jew". He certainly didn't identify with the sects of Jews that had formed. (pharasees, saducees, essenes, et. al.)

"And Pilate asked him, Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answering said unto him, Thou sayest it."

"you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship.”
21Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews."

I think he definitely identified with, and was identified with the Jewish race and country as a whole, though.
He was the first Messianc Spirit Filled Jew that walked in His Fathers Way Perfectly! Hallelujah, Glory to God in the HIGHEST!
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,776
113
#31
If you want to see who crucified Him look in the mirror. Stop blaming only the Jews.
Are you forgetting that it is God who blamed the Jews through Stephen and Peter?

ACTS 2: PETER SPEAKING BY THE HOLY SPIRIT
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

ACTS 7: STEPHEN SPEAKING BY THE HOLY SPIRIT
51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. 52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#32
Well...I'm not sure that's the notion we're meant to draw from the scene.

The Messiah wasn't just offered the kingdoms of the world. The offer was, receive all the kingdoms of the world if you will bow down to me. He rejected the condition because only the Father is to be worshipped.

Upon overcoming satan's temptations in the wilderness, The Messiah emerged preaching the kingdom where He said "my Father has given me all things." (John 3:35; 16:15).


Matthew 28:18
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
well true though Jesus was kinda ALREADY ruling but it wasnt the kingdoms of this world...!
The heavenly kingdom or Gods kingdom is a realm in which you must be invited to enter. Not everyone automatically gets in. Rich people have a harder time entering eg camel through needle? People cant just gatecrash.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
9,386
5,725
113
#33
I was not tearing down a brother but simply pointing out the fact that it was unwise to speak of Jesus as "a Jew". He did not identify Himself with the Jews.
What an utterly bizarre comment.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#34
not really lucy

lions eat lambs, but lambs dont eat lions.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,932
1,262
113
Australia
#35
  • What exactly is the Abrahamic Covenant, and is it still relevant today?
  • Has the New Testament done away with the Old Testament?
  • Is the Church the new and true Israel?
  • What is the Kingdom of God?
  • What lies ahead for the State of Israel?
  • How should gentile believers relate to unbelieving Jews?

(Joel Richardson)
  • What exactly is the Abrahamic Covenant, and is it still relevant today?...... Jesus' death is what it is all about.
The covenant of grace was first made with man in Eden. After the Fall, there was given a divine promise that the seed of the woman should bruise the serpent's head. To all men this covenant offered pardon and the assisting grace of God for future obedience through faith in Christ. It also promised eternal life. This same covenant was renewed to Abraham in the promise, “In thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed.” Gen 22:18 Abraham trusted in Christ for the forgiveness of sins. It was this faith that was accounted unto him for righteousness.
Though this covenant was made with Adam and renewed to Abraham, it could not be ratified until the death of Christ. It had existed by the promise of God; it had been accepted by faith; yet when ratified by Christ, it is called a new covenant.
  • Has the New Testament done away with the Old Testament?...
No way.
  • Is the Church the new and true Israel?
Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Israel can do nothing without Christ.
The natural branches are Israel, The tree is made up those that abide in Christ.
Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Israel failed as a nation. They did not accept the most Holy and were cut off.
Mat 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Mat 21:44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
  • What is the Kingdom of God? ...... It is were God rules. His principles and order are in place physically, mentally and spiritually.
Mar 4:30 And he said, Whereunto shall we liken the kingdom of God? or with what comparison shall we compare it? He could not employ the kingdoms of the world as a similitude. In society He found nothing with which to compare it. Earthly kingdoms rule by the ascendancy of physical power; but from Christ's kingdom every carnal weapon, every instrument of coercion, is banished. This kingdom is to uplift and ennoble humanity. God's church is the court of holy life, filled with varied gifts and endowed with the Holy Spirit.
  • What lies ahead for the State of Israel?
The same as all other nations..... Without Christ they are nothing. We are not saved as a nation or because of our blood line, we are saved individually.
  • How should gentile believers relate to unbelieving Jews?... Love them as ourselves. do to them as we would have them do to us.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,932
1,262
113
Australia
#36
All should understand that Israel is twelve tribes.

Israel is also our heavenly nation with its capital being the New Jerusalem, for since the first Jerusalem the replacement was made necessary.

All should be aware that all who believe are Jews by translation, not of some bogus denomination claiming to represent Israel, for the original Israelites did not have denominations, only but most importantly, their country headed by a High Priest who in turn was headed by God.

All the above is quite a mystery which I do not claim to understand fully, however because the Word teaches all of this I, by the gift of faith, believe it, for the Word is God, amen.
The kingdom is made by God in Heaven and God gave to Israel the plans, and the patterns (Sanctuary, City, and salvation), but they were never able to rally achieve what God wanted. These plans and services were given so we could understand heaven and redemption. Today we have the History and even better we have Jesus.
The Jews have the History but most don't accept Jesus. We are sons of God by adoption and therefore Jews.

Focusing on the Jewish nation today is a trap because we are not saved through them or their actions but are saved by being sons and daughters of God, we need to Focus on Jesus.

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Heb 8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
Heb 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.