WHEN DID GRACE BY FAITH END AND SALVATION BY WORKS BEGIN AS IN SHEEP/GOAT JUDGEMENT

[Pilgrimshope]

Philippians4-13plus12a

wonder if Paul was a believer of

“And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove;

and nothing shall be impossible unto you.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭17:20‬ ‭

“For with God nothing shall be impossible.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭1:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭19:26‬ ‭

We think of all things being possible

Is this possible ?

“I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭12:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Is this possible ?

“This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.


But ye have not so learned Christ; if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; and be renewed in the spirit of your mind; and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.


Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: neither give place to the devil.

Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, ( see (genesis 6:6-7)whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:

and be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:17-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Is it possible to change from a sinner to a child of God ? By the grace of God amen it is all things are possible with the lord who is and was and will always be his grace that saves

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[WayneKCobb]

So, what is your definition/meaning of Jesus' grace? What does grace mean? This is what it means to me.

Grace is divine help and strength that we receive through the atonement of Jesus Christ. Through grace, we are saved from sin and death. In addition, grace is an enabling power that strengthens us from day to day and helps us endure to the end. Effort is required on our part to receive the fulness of the Lord’s grace.

Yes, we are saved through Jesus' grace. And He gives us the criteria through which He will save us in the "Judgement of Nations".

If you disagree with my meaning/definition of ' Jesus' grace' tell me your definition.

Also, my defination of faith in Jesus is believing all that He taught and all that He taught us to do. That is true faith to me.

If you disagree with my meaning/definition of faith in Jesus, then please share your understanding of faith.

Hi, Arthur,

I looked for you definition of faith and did not find your Biblical definition. Could you help me by answering these four questions.

1. What is hope?
2. How does one get hope?
3. How is faith like hope?
4. How is faith different than hope?

Thank you so much!

God bless you,
Wayne

 

[Cameron143]

Hi Cameron, If I may, can I ask you four questions:
1. What is Hope?
2. How do you get Hope?
3. How is faith like Hope?
4. How is faith different than hope?

Thanks and God bless you,
Wayne

Probably easier to start with faith since Hebrews 11 clearly defines it. Faith is the substance of things hoped for; the evidence of things not seen.
Hope is an anticipation of something.
Hope, biblically, is an anticipation of a promise of God. Faith is the evidence that that hope will indeed be fulfilled.

 

[Cameron143]

Hi Cameron, If I may, can I ask you four questions:
1. What is Hope?
2. How do you get Hope?
3. How is faith like Hope?
4. How is faith different than hope?

Thanks and God bless you,
Wayne

As I reread my answer, I saw that I didn't actually answer all your questions. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 15:13 suggests hope comes from the Holy Spirit.

 

[Magenta]

“And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain
of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove;

Jesus' words in Matthew 17:20-21
Faith the size of a mustard seed moved the mountain of my unbelief.

 

[Magenta]

“For with God nothing shall be impossible.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭1:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭19:26‬ ‭

Luke 1:37

 

[Magenta]

And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that
ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.” Romans‬ ‭12:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Romans 12:2

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Probably easier to start with faith since Hebrews 11 clearly defines it. Faith is the substance of things hoped for; the evidence of things not seen.
Hope is an anticipation of something.
Hope, biblically, is an anticipation of a promise of God. Faith is the evidence that that hope will indeed be fulfilled.

“Hope is an anticipation of something. “

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭

hearing the Hope Jesus told us about creates that hope that brings us to the evidence what I’m mean is hearing the gospel creates faith in us if we believe what we’re hearing

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.


…If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”( this type of thing is creating faith so we understand )
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32, 51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

All I mean is there’s a source of faith in the world that creates true Hope based on what our lord said to believers , and reveals the evidence of changed people through simply hearing and believing the gospel

hearing what the lord said about being saved and believing it

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16, 20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Omegatime]

How about take your faith debate somewhere else

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Jesus' words in Matthew 17:20-21
Faith the size of a mustard seed moved the mountain of my unbelief.

those are beautiful colors looks like Christmas time for some reason haha

Yes I’m not sure if mine is that big but it’s there for sure I think that’s one common point everyone who comes here with good intent shares we all believe in Jesus in the most basic and important way and that’s a lot to share in common

 

[Pilgrimshope]

How about take your faith debate somewhere else

lol yeah I won’t comment on your post anymore “ omegatime “ peace to you though

 

[Omegatime]

lol yeah I won’t comment on your post anymore “ omegatime “ peace to you though

TY-This thread is about what is in Mat 25

 

[Pilgrimshope]

TY-This thread is about what is in Mat 25

yeah no worries

 

[arthurfleminger]

Hi, Arthur,

I looked for you definition of faith and did not find your Biblical definition. Could you help me by answering these four questions.

1. What is hope?
2. How does one get hope?
3. How is faith like hope?
4. How is faith different than hope?

Thank you so much!

God bless you,
Wayne

I will give you my opinion on your questions. I think that hope is what we desire/want to happen and faith is what we believe and trust will happen.

I can best support this by example. I have that faith that Jesus suffered and died for me and offers me His salvation. And I hope to share in Jesus' salvation and that He will save me.

 

[Omegatime]

To conclude I see I was wrong to say salvation was given to the sheep. John 146 said it was for entry into the kingdom of God which I think is correct

 

[Blade]

For me I look at just who was Jesus talking to at the time. Not the Church no any "Christian" it was to the Jewish people and what they will see. John 3:16-17 Rom 10:9-10 yeah should be easy to understand this gift it has no ties with it we as man that know nothing is this life is free and it must be worked for. This seems to be how some look at this free gift. Yet it was just believe on the lord Jesus/Yeshua Christ. So any "works" I do have nothing what so ever to do with salvation they are works of righteousness. And all of it will I lay at His feet on day.

So as I understand Caught up already happened. Who goes? If we read Cor and the people there then at what 15 the sweet holy Spirit uses a word twice "ALL". Anyway Christ comes in the clouds sets foot on the earth and gathers the nations. I don't read about all the dead gathered or all those in heaven as in Paul, Peter, James, David or me or any of my family members that are now with the Father as the thief is who will not be there when Christ splits sheep and goats. Its those that just came out of the great tribulation. There is no judgment coming Christ whom believe in trust in became sin for me and took my place. So there is nothing to judge other then the GOOD works I did or didn't to so I will or will not get rewards but I will at that time be as He said "where I am you will be". I will be with Him in His Fathers house since He said it and He can not lie.

Something I have to re dig on is sleep. Some say when Paul said "sleep" that verse means death yet then it was used say somewhere else it means those that are asleep as in not living for Christ. I did a quick look and it can mean that but..

 

[WayneKCobb]

Hi, Arthur,

I looked for you definition of faith and did not find your Biblical definition. Could you help me by answering these four questions.

1. What is hope?
2. How does one get hope?
3. How is faith like hope?
4. How is faith different than hope?

Thank you so much!

God bless you,
Wayne

ANSWER:

What is Hope? We get hope when we receive knowledge and trust that this knowledge is true.
How is Faith like hope and how is faith different that hope? Like hope, faith has trust in the knowledge that we have received whether that knowledge is true or false. Faith is different than hope. This is described in James 2:14-16, there are three levels of faith:

1. A dead faith - It has no works.

2. A unperfected faith - It will obey God when God so commands us to do so The example given is Abraham in Genesis 15 and Abramam's faith was reckoned unto Abraham as righteousness. God knew that Abraham would obey Him.

3. A perfected faith - It is a faith that has trusted in God and obeys God like Abraham obeyed God and went to sacrifice Isaac when God commanded him to do so.

Also, faith CAN be seen, and hope CANNOT be seen.

Matthew_9:2 And they brought to Him a paralytic lying on a bed. Seeing their faith, Jesus said to the paralytic, "Take courage, son; your sins are forgiven."

Mark 2:5 And Jesus seeing their faith *said to the paralytic, "Son, your sins are forgiven."

This also brings us to the fact that there are two different types of works: A works of faith

1Thessalonians 1:3 constantly bearing in mind your work of faith and labor of LOVE and steadfastness of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ in the presence of our God and Father,

2Thessalonians 1:11 To this end also we pray for you always, that our God will count you worthy of your calling, and fulfill every desire for goodness and the work of faith with power,

An example of how our faith in God works is found in Colossians 2:12:

Colossians 2:12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

Also, in the conversions in the Book of Acts, faith is NEVER in the Active Voice (something you do). We do not baptize ourselves. Someone else always baptizes us. They are doing the work.

Thank you for listening.

God bless you,
Wayne

 

[WayneKCobb]

I will give you my opinion on your questions. I think that hope is what we desire/want to happen and faith is what we believe and trust will happen.

I can best support this by example. I have that faith that Jesus suffered and died for me and offers me His salvation. And I hope to share in Jesus' salvation and that He will save me.

ANSWER:

What is Hope? We get hope when we receive knowledge and trust that this knowledge is true.
How is Faith like hope and how is faith different that hope? Like hope, faith has trust in the knowledge that we have received whether that knowledge is true or false. Faith is different than hope. This is described in James 2:14-16, there are three levels of faith:

1. A dead faith - It has no works.

2. A unperfected faith - It will obey God when God so commands us to do so The example given is Abraham in Genesis 15 and Abramam's faith was reckoned unto Abraham as righteousness. God knew that Abraham would obey Him.

3. A perfected faith - It is a faith that has trusted in God and obeys God like Abraham obeyed God and went to sacrifice Isaac when God commanded him to do so.

Also, faith CAN be seen, and hope CANNOT be seen.

Matthew_9:2 And they brought to Him a paralytic lying on a bed. Seeing their faith, Jesus said to the paralytic, "Take courage, son; your sins are forgiven."

Mark 2:5 And Jesus seeing their faith *said to the paralytic, "Son, your sins are forgiven."

This also brings us to the fact that there are two different types of works: A works of faith

1Thessalonians 1:3 constantly bearing in mind your work of faith and labor of LOVE and steadfastness of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ in the presence of our God and Father,

2Thessalonians 1:11 To this end also we pray for you always, that our God will count you worthy of your calling, and fulfill every desire for goodness and the work of faith with power,

An example of how our faith in God works is found in Colossians 2:12:

Colossians 2:12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

Also, in the conversions in the Book of Acts, faith is NEVER in the Active Voice (something you do). We do not baptize ourselves. Someone else always baptizes us. They are doing the work.

Thank you for listening.

God bless you,
Wayne