When did (will) Jesus open the first seal in Rev. 6 and what does it represent?

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lamad

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Don't forget to include the part that the "FOR" also pertains to:

"and hast redeemed US to God by thy blood out-of EVERY..."


[do you think this ^ has anything to do with "unto the day of redemption" and "the redemption of the 'purchased-possession'" (<--that's us / 'the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY')]
I don't believe the "US." I don't think that was in the photograph copy.
 

lamad

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I fail to understand why you all fight so hard against a simple reading of the Text? It is written very plainly that a search was conducted and "no man was found."

That means that at the time, JESUS was not worthy to take the book and open the seals.

Again, why is this so difficult to believe?

Do you all struggle with John 3:16 in the same way?
 

posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
thus demonstrating His worthiness, not adding worthiness to Himself that was somehow previously lacking.

please recall your own statement:

He is never 'not worthy' This is nonsense!

or were you being sarcastic?
do you really believe God is unworthy?
 

lamad

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please see Isaiah 43:11, 45:15, Revelation 13:8, and Luke 2:11
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.
Isa 45:15 Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.
Rev 13:8 All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.

Now you are just playing games: these are all nothing but red herrings.

Let's get back to the real question: WHY was Jesus not found in that first search? (Hint: He was not hiding!)
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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I don't believe the "US." I don't think that was in the photograph copy.
In Post #39, I'd put the following LINK to another thread post...

Post #64 - https://christianchat.com/threads/revelation-study.198143/post-4522228

... where there is a 9:15-min video telling about how:

[basically, in my words...]

--of the 24 [total] manuscripts available (of the Greek) of Revelation chpt 5 [and VERSE 9 IN PARTICULAR], 23 of them have it as "US [G2248 - hemas]" and only ONE manuscript (the only other one) leaves it blank [/untranslated]. (That ONE manuscript [of 24 total manuscripts (Rev5)] that leaves it blank/untranslated is the "Codex Alexandrinus".)

[end quoting past post excerpt]



I was wondering if you could read that Post #64 (at LINK ^ ), LISTEN to the video [ignore the part where he stumbles over his words briefly, lol], and tell me what [of the info supplied therein] that it is that you DISAGREE with in that video. It would really help me out. = )
 

posthuman

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Where was Jesus at this time? Explain why Jesus was not found here.

22 “All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows who the Son is except the Father, and no one knows who the Father is except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.”

Please explain how verse 22 answers the questions as to where Jesus was when that first search was carried out.
no one knows God except those to whom God chooses to reveal Himself to. i.e. God hides Himself.

again, please see Isaiah 43:11, 45:15, Revelation 13:8, and Luke 2:11.
 

posthuman

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Now you are just playing games: these are all nothing but red herrings.
IOW you don't comprehend what you're reading, yet you think you are my teacher.
 

posthuman

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Why don't you just answer the questions!
stop replying out of frustration and give some actual thought to what i've already told you.
i've already answered your question several times. i've given you everything you need to understand it, if you could hear it.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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I fail to understand why you all fight so hard against a simple reading of the Text? It is written very plainly that a search was conducted and "no man was found."

That means that at the time, JESUS was not worthy to take the book and open the seals.
It means that a "searching judgment" has taken place, and it involved "[ppl] in heaven... in earth... under the earth"...

JESUS was the ONLY ONE "worthy" (to open the scroll / book) ;)




["the Lion of the tribe of Judah... hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof"... [OT refs-->] "Judah is my lawgiver [/scepter]"--see also Heb1:8]
 

lamad

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Apr 14, 2021
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thus demonstrating His worthiness, not adding worthiness to Himself that was somehow previously lacking.

please recall your own statement:

or were you being sarcastic?
do you really believe God is unworthy?
I was not being sarcastic. In general, "He is never not worthy." But we were not talking in general terms. We were talking about a specific verse:

2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy
[including Jesus at this time] to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

Notice WHERE this angel looked: in heaven, then in the earth, then under the earth. Where else is there? The idea is, he looked EVERYWHERE.
The intent of verses 3 & 4 are that no man anywhere was found worthy TO TAKE THE BOOK and open the seals. (the worthiness or unworthiness is only related to the BOOK.)

Why do you fight so against this verse? Why not just believe it? It is SCRIPTURE!
 

lamad

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Apr 14, 2021
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stop replying out of frustration and give some actual thought to what i've already told you.
i've already answered your question several times. i've given you everything you need to understand it, if you could hear it.
The truth is, you can't here "no man was found worthy." it is plain you don't believe that scripture. So you throw in red herrings because you don't believe this verse.
 

posthuman

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In general, "He is never not worthy."
if He is ever not worthy in any specific instance then it is a lie to say He is never not worthy.

stop and think. go away for 3 hours before you write me again.
 

posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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The truth is, you can't here "no man was found worthy." it is plain you don't believe that scripture. So you throw in red herrings because you don't believe this verse.
you're making a fool of yourself. go sit under a tree and think about the verses i gave you.
 

lamad

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Apr 14, 2021
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you're making a fool of yourself. go sit under a tree and think about the verses i gave you.
I did. I posted them. Did you not read my response?

Again I ask: why is it so difficult for you to believe this verse?
4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

Do you just not understand these simple words? Or is it you just can't believe that at this time Jesus was not worthy to take the book and open the seals?
 

lamad

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Apr 14, 2021
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if He is ever not worthy in any specific instance then it is a lie to say He is never not worthy.

stop and think. go away for 3 hours before you write me again.
We are talking about a search for one worthy to take the book and open the seals. VERY SPECIFIC. Why is it you wonder around to other things?

Do you believe John or do you not?
 

lamad

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It means that a "searching judgment" has taken place, and it involved "[ppl] in heaven... in earth... under the earth"...

JESUS was the ONLY ONE "worthy" (to open the scroll / book) ;)




["the Lion of the tribe of Judah... hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof"... [OT refs-->] "Judah is my lawgiver [/scepter]"--see also Heb1:8]
Right, but you just sidestepped the question as if to avoid it! John tells us there was a point in time that NO MAN was found worthy, and that would include Jesus Christ - who was LATER found worthy.
 

lamad

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Apr 14, 2021
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stop replying out of frustration and give some actual thought to what i've already told you.
i've already answered your question several times. i've given you everything you need to understand it, if you could hear it.
No, you have just given us red herrings. You have sidestepped the real question because it seems, you just don't believe John when He wrote that "no man was found worthy." "No man" here had to include Jesus at that point in time.
 

lamad

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Apr 14, 2021
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IOW you don't comprehend what you're reading, yet you think you are my teacher.
Since you continue to argue, or disagree, I can only understand that you DON'T believe John when he wrote that "no man was found worthy" at that point in time. "No man" had to include Jesus because He was NOT hiding as one of your red herrings suggested.
 

lamad

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Apr 14, 2021
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no one knows God except those to whom God chooses to reveal Himself to. i.e. God hides Himself.

again, please see Isaiah 43:11, 45:15, Revelation 13:8, and Luke 2:11.
I am sorry you can't understand the real question.

WHY did John write "no man was found worthy" at that point in time? You think God was hiding! How funny!

Why not read ahead and see that Jesus WAS found in the NEXT or a subsequent search. That would assist you in answering why. WHAT HAPPENED between these two searches? John gives us hints.