When Does the New Heaven, New Earth, New Jerusalem come into being?

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When does the New Heaven, New Earth and New Jerusalem come into being?

  • After the tribulation and at the beginning of the thousand years?

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • After the thousand years and after the Great White Throne Judgment?

    Votes: 10 100.0%
  • No sure

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    10

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,374
113
#21
Here are some of the problems that I find with the belief that the new heaven, new earth and new Jerusalem begins after the Lord returns to the earth to end the age and at the onset of the thousand year reign of Christ:

1). Then I saw a great white throne and the One seated on it. Heaven and earth fled from His presence and no place was found for them

As the verse above states, this takes place at the onset of great white throne judgment, which is after the thousand year reign of Christ and where at which time heaven and earth flee from God and no place is found for them and that because they are passing away. That said, this would negate the idea of the new heaven and new earth coming into being at the onset of the thousand years. Otherwise the heaven and earth fleeing would have to be referring to the new heaven and earth.

2). Satan is cast into the Abyss at the beginning of the thousand years

If the new heaven and new earth are implemented at the same time that Satan is thrown into the Abyss, which is at the beginning of the thousand years, that would mean for one that Satan would be destroyed with the earth when it is destroyed by that fervent heat. Yet we know that Satan is released from the Abyss at the end of the thousand years. In addition, if the new earth had an Abyss, it would be tainted with Satan being restricted in it. In that case the new earth would already be off to a bad start with sin of Satan spilling over into the new earth.

However, the Abyss that is being referred to is the one that is on this present earth. The Abyss is the same place that those demonic beings collectively named 'Legion' begged Jesus not to cast them into found in Luke 8:30-31. It is also the same place that the beast/angel currently resides and is waiting to be released from as revealed in Rev.9:11, 11:7, 17:8, to name a few.

3). At the end of the thousand years, God rains down fire on those who surround Jerusalem, killing them all.

Regarding the new heaven and earth, Revelation 21:4 states that "He will wipe away every tear from their eyes,’ and there will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the former things have passed away.” Since the final rebellion where God rains fire down upon those who surround Jerusalem takes place at the end of the thousand years, it would be in conflict with the fact that the scripture states that there will be no more death, for it will have passed away. In other words, if the new heaven and earth come into being at the onset of the thousand years, death should not exist during that time and thereafter. Yet we see from God's destruction of those who surround the city, that death would still exist at the end of the thousand years.

4). There would be no fulfillment of Isaiah 2:4 when the nations beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks.

After the tribulation period, when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, Isaiah 2:4 takes place where the Lord will settle disputes between the nations and they will beat their weapons of war into implements for agricultural use. If the new heaven and earth were to come into being at the onset of the thousand years, where this present earth is destroyed by fire with everything in it melting in fervent heat, then there would be no weapons of war to burn. And the fact that it states that nation shall not take up sword against nation and will not train for war anymore, would infer that the thousand years continues on this present earth and not on the new heaven and earth.

Besides the few I mentioned here, I'm sure that there are many other scriptural examples as to why the new heaven and new earth cannot come into being at the onset of the thousand years.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,374
113
#22
If we regard the Millennium as a "preview" of the New Heavens and the New Earth, it fits perfectly. However since there is unrighteousness after the Millennium, God has to deal with that, after which there is a supernatural fiery cleansing of the earth and the first heaven (possibly even the second heaven since there are man-made objects floating around in space). Everything on the surface of the earth (probably even below the surface) will be wiped out.

What we are not told is where God will take the righteous earth-dwellers during that time of cleansing, but the earth will be repopulated and the kingdom of Israel will be established on earth for eternity in the New Earth. The New Jerusalem will be the heavenly body which replaces the sun and gives light to the earth. God has not revealed to us absolutely everything, but we can certainly connect the dots as far as possible.
I have often wondered the same thing in regards to the cleansing of this present earth in preparation for the thousand year reign of Christ. For during the tribulation period, the seas and fresh water will have been turned into literal blood, there will be dead bodies everywhere, the cities of the nations will have collapsed and there will be no more mountains and islands as a result of the earthquake at the 7th bowl judgment. Obviously there has to be some sort of cleansing in order for the earth to be habitable, but as you stated, there is nothing mentioned regarding the millennial cleansing. We know that the Abyss will not be wiped out, because Satan will be released from there at the end of the thousand years. This thread must be driving the Amillennialist crazy, since they believe that we are already living in a nonliteral thousand years! :cool:
 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,673
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#23
This has been my conclusion as well. I started this thread because there are expositors, scholars and theologians and every one in between who believe that the new heaven and new earth take place at the onset of the millennial kingdom. However, there are problems with this position. For example in Revelation 20:11, which takes place after the thousand years and at the onset of the great white throne judgment (GWTJ), it states that the "The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them." This would have to be referring to this current heaven and earth which are going to pass away, i.e. cease to exist and not the new heaven and earth. This would also demonstrate that at the time of the GWTJ the new heaven and earth have not yet come into existence.

Another problem that arises is that Revelation 21:4 states "there will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the former things have passed away." My point being is that if the new heaven, new earth and new Jerusalem were to be implemented at the onset of the thousand year reign of Christ, then during that time entire thousand years and beyond there will be no more death. Yet, at the end of the thousand years, all of those people that Satan deceived are killed when God rains down fire upon them. This would demonstrate that death, pain and sorrow have not yet passed away.
Yes, in agreement with the issues you have pointed out.

Revelation 22:

1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.



 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,820
755
113
#24
End Time Chronology (Historicist View):

- Messiah dies & resurrects

- Ascension of Messiah into Heaven // First 4 seals loosed // Holy Spirit given (Pentecost)

- Martyrdom of Apostles // 5th Seal

- Jerusalem punished for rejecting Messiah (using Roman Empire) // 6th Seal

- Roman Empire punished for destroying Jerusalem (using barbarian armies) // 7th Seal // Trumpets 1-4

- Appearance of Man of Lawlessness (blasphemous "Beast") // changes times & laws

- "holy" Roman world punished for blasphemy (using Muslims) // Trumpet 5 (locust)

- "holy" Roman world punished for blasphemy (using Asians) // Trumpet 6 (fire & brimstone)

- Great Tribulation of Jews (by "Beast" & Nations) // Church Age (Time of Gentiles)

- Nations punished for Great Tribulation of Jews (using plagues) // Trumpet 7 // Bowls 1-6

- Gathering of Believers (Jew & Gentile) unto Messiah // rapture - resurrection // Marriage Supper

- Destruction of "Beast" & his Army by Messiah & His Army // bowl 7

- The Millennium // Iron-Rod rule over Nations // satan imprisoned

- The Battle of Gog and Magog // satan freed to deceive

- Satan cast into the Lake of Fire

- The Great While Throne Judgment

- (The burning up of the earth and its atmosphere mentioned in 2 Peter)

- The New Heavens and the New Earth

- The New Jerusalem descending from Heaven.