When Has God Gathered After He Scattered Without Any Repentance?

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Evmur

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WHAT RESTORATION? Romans 11? No matter how loud the "Israel in prophecy" crowd demands it, Romans 11 no where speaks of national restoration, but restoration of a individual remnant natural branches that may be grafted in via their repentance alongside us wild branches. No separate nation. No more "Jew or Gentile". No more Israel in prophecy...unless you're talking about Spiritual Israel, the church, which is called "the Israel of God" that walks "according to this rule" of the new creature in Christ.

Some would claim wrongly dividing the word of God as "the work of the devil."

You play scriptural hop scotch, you quote those portions which suit your opinions and ignore those that do not.

Paul speaks loud and clear about their restoration.

Romans. 11.11
Have they stumbled so as to fall? God forbid ... YOU say they have, Paul says different.

But through their trespass salvation come to the Gentiles so as to make Israel jealous. Now if their trespass means riches for the world and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles how much more will their full inclusion mean?

The remnant bramches do not need to be re-grafted in, they were never grafted out. It was those who rejected Christ who were grafted out and need to be grafted back in and they will be.

The apostolic church are the remnant.
 

Evmur

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Very strong delusion this. Very wicked. Hagee is teaching insane heresies.
C.H. Spurgeon was no dispensationalist he believed in the future restoration of Israel as have bible lovers since earliest times. it would be tiresome to quote the church fathers [so called]
 

tribesman

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C.H. Spurgeon was no dispensationalist he believed in the future restoration of Israel as have bible lovers since earliest times. it would be tiresome to quote the church fathers [so called]
Tiresome because most of them would gainsay you?

And for me Spurgeon is not always a reliable resource. There is no justification for this "christian zionist" lunacy.

Oh by the way, Charles Taze Russell was a "christian zionist" big time. Joseph Smith's buddy Orson Hyde was one too. There you have your "fathers".
 

Evmur

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Paul is saying believing Jews + believing gentiles = all Israel. It was a mystery.

I'm not being conceited. Will you please look at the urgency and seriousness of Paul's words? Unbelieving Jews need to be grafted in now, not after Jesus returns.


Yes. Instead of coming and condemning sinner who brutally mistreated him, he patiently endured abuse to "ransom" sinners from death.
It was Paul's words "lest ye be wise in your own conceits..." it was part of the scripture I quoted from him saying that all Israel would be saved.

Israel will be converted and be accepted.

Actually it was the Romans who crucified our Lord not that the Jews were guiltless they were guilty. Jesus did not condemn them why do you? do you think they are more sinner than you?
 

Evmur

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Tiresome because most of them would gainsay you?

And for me Spurgeon is not always a reliable resource. There is no justification for this "christian zionist" lunacy.

Oh by the way, Charles Taze Russell was a "christian zionist" big time. Joseph Smith's buddy Orson Hyde was one too. There you have your "fathers".
I am not a Zionist nor was Spurgeon, we simply believe the scripture. Who cares what Russell or Smith believed.

What Paul taught was what we go by.

"for if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead?" If the first fruits is holy so is the whole lump and if the root is holy so are the branches."
 

tribesman

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I am not a Zionist nor was Spurgeon, we simply believe the scripture. Who cares what Russell or Smith believed.

What Paul taught was what we go by.

"for if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead?" If the first fruits is holy so is the whole lump and if the root is holy so are the branches."
That's all you got? One scripture?

No. What the zionists dream up is not what the Bible teaches, seen in the light of all scripture. Some jews will repent though, and they are already doing so now. Let's focus on that and totally drop this political "pro-state of Israel" thingy.
 

Evmur

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That's all you got? One scripture?

No. What the zionists dream up is not what the Bible teaches, seen in the light of all scripture. Some jews will repent though, and they are already doing so now. Let's focus on that and totally drop this political "pro-state of Israel" thingy.
What do you mean "pro-state of Israel"? are you anti-state of Israel? is it not God who forms nations?

Paul says plenty
"as regards the gospel they are enemies for your sake but as touching election they are BELOVED for the sake of their forefathers. For the gifts and call of God are irrevocable."

YOU say God has revoked His gifts and call to Israel, Paul says they are irrevocable.
 

Journeyman

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Jan 10, 2019
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Yes, but in the millennial reign of Christ, Israel will be the only nation with a special relationship with God, that other gentile nations won't.

That is why many OT prophecies, like that found in Zechariah 8, indicated that gentiles from all nations would have to make a special trip to Jerusalem to meet with the Lord

7 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Behold, I will save my people from the east country, and from the west country;

8 And I will bring them, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness.

20 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; It shall yet come to pass, that there shall come people, and the inhabitants of many cities:

21 And the inhabitants of one city shall go to another, saying, Let us go speedily to pray before the Lord, and to seek the Lord of hosts: I will go also.

22 Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the Lord of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the Lord.

23 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

You have a different interpretation of this passage from Zechariah 8?
I don't have a different interpretation. I've already taken hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, our Lord Jesus,

But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto thecity of the living God, theheavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, Heb.12:22
 

tribesman

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Oct 13, 2011
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What do you mean "pro-state of Israel"? are you anti-state of Israel? is it not God who forms nations?

Paul says plenty
"as regards the gospel they are enemies for your sake but as touching election they are BELOVED for the sake of their forefathers. For the gifts and call of God are irrevocable."

YOU say God has revoked His gifts and call to Israel, Paul says they are irrevocable.
I have not said so. It's just that I don't buy into imposters claim of being israelites.

Israel is just a wordly political state. Not "formed by God" more or less than any other national state.

If you think today's Israel are the same people as the ancient hebrews you're only ignorant.

And it is not me but GOD who defines what Israel is. It is not what the modern day jew claim.

Read up on things better.
 

Evmur

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Feb 28, 2021
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I have not said so. It's just that I don't buy into imposters claim of being israelites.

Israel is just a wordly political state. Not "formed by God" more or less than any other national state.

If you think today's Israel are the same people as the ancient hebrews you're only ignorant.

And it is not me but GOD who defines what Israel is. It is not what the modern day jew claim.

Read up on things better.
Are you American? how can we be sure? the Jews in Israel are distinct from every other ethnicity, they are the same people who have wandered the earth these 2, 000 years being persecuted from one nation to the next. Most of those who founded modern Israel were the survivors of Nazism and Communism.
 

tribesman

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Oct 13, 2011
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Are you American? how can we be sure? the Jews in Israel are distinct from every other ethnicity, they are the same people who have wandered the earth these 2, 000 years being persecuted from one nation to the next. Most of those who founded modern Israel were the survivors of Nazism and Communism.
No, I am NOT an american.

Your ignorance about what makes up modern jewry is huge. You are deceived by this "christian zionist" plot. Deceived.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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I don't have a different interpretation. I've already taken hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, our Lord Jesus,

But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto thecity of the living God, theheavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, Heb.12:22
I see, so you believed Zechariah 8 has already been fulfilled.
 

Journeyman

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It was Paul's words "lest ye be wise in your own conceits..." it was part of the scripture I quoted from him saying that all Israel would be saved.

Israel will be converted and be accepted.

Actually it was the Romans who crucified our Lord not that the Jews were guiltless they were guilty. Jesus did not condemn them why do you? do you think they are more sinner than you?
Being wise in conceit happens to anyone who forgets he is saved by faith, no matter what race he is, Jew or gentile.

Paul isn't teaching that "all Israel" =all Jews. He's teaching that believers, whether Jew or gentile = all Israel.

Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Rom.11:18

Our Lord Jesus bears all by faith in him.

And I'm not condemning unbelieving Jewish or gentiles, no matter how conceited they are.
 

Journeyman

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I see, so you believed Zechariah 8 has already been fulfilled.
It is being fulfilled. I don't need Jesus to return and send out more Jews to teach me about God. He has given me peace that passes all understanding and made me fruitful and no enemy can defeat me. Continue to ignore what Jesus, his disciples and the Holy Spirit teach if you want, but I advise against it.
 

Platosgal

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Mar 17, 2020
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This is an interesting chat

How can American Christians

Who watch Netflix( AntiChrist programing) and media outlets that literally HATE Christ
Worship Trump
Stand silent against Abortion
Allow Heritics and Pedophiles to give sacraments and lead supposed churches
Support False Prophets

Judge Israel or Jews??

The arrogance is mind boggling
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
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It is being fulfilled. I don't need Jesus to return and send out more Jews to teach me about God. He has given me peace that passes all understanding and made me fruitful and no enemy can defeat me. Continue to ignore what Jesus, his disciples and the Holy Spirit teach if you want, but I advise against it.
If you are in the body of Christ, you will obviously have no need, your location will be in heaven.

But there will still be unsaved gentiles during those 1000 years
 

tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
4,617
271
83
This is an interesting chat

How can American Christians

Who watch Netflix( AntiChrist programing) and media outlets that literally HATE Christ
Worship Trump
Stand silent against Abortion
Allow Heritics and Pedophiles to give sacraments and lead supposed churches
Support False Prophets

Judge Israel or Jews??

The arrogance is mind boggling
Ya but how many people doing the same thing are strongly pro-Israel?

The US have a big guilt in "christianizing" every damnable thing possible. Just put the word "christian" before anything and hocus-pocos, it's christian. Soon we see christian satanism.
 
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
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Debunked again and again, for yearrrsss, and then someone starts it all over again.
Yes, debunked by the same pagan descendants of the Khazars who love all that sweet moolah that rolls in from Christian suckers, who operate the porn industry in the U.S. and fight for the communist agenda in the U.S. :)
Romans 11
I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don’t you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel: 3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me”[a]? 4 And what was God’s answer to him? “I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”[b] 5 So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace.


What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened, 8 as it is written:

“God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that could not see and ears that could not hear, to this very day.”

Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!..


If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!


I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way[e] all Israel will be saved. As it is written:

“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27 And this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”



28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
Israel is done - individual Israelites, however, we’re promised in Romans 11 redemption in Christ. You’re misapplying the promise.

This same Paul says those who belong to Christ are “heirs according to the promise”. Are you going to argue the entire “nation of Israel” will be saved, like Caiphas and those you claim are Israel today who spit in Christians and mock Jesus?

GOD NEVER GATHERED THEM AFTER SCATTERING THEM WITHOUT THEM FIRST HAVING REPENTED.
 

Platosgal

Active member
Mar 17, 2020
277
181
43
Tjis is all because Women are leading the church
Real Men of God need to stand up
And say No!

What difference does it make what
Isreal is doing?

American Christians
NEED to Repent

And read the word and Follow Chr

Ya but how many people doing the same thing are strongly pro-Israel?

The US have a big guilt in "christianizing" every damnable thing possible. Just put the word "christian" before anything and hocus-pocos, it's christian. Soon we see christian satanism.
 

tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
4,617
271
83
Tjis is all because Women are leading the church
Real Men of God need to stand up
And say No!

What difference does it make what
Isreal is doing?

American Christians
NEED to Repent

And read the word and Follow Chr
True. And that repentance includes repenting of this "Israel first" and "christian zionist" deception. It is not from God.