when will the most evil doctrin in the world get banned on this site.
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IMO, we should not "just accept it." Flawed Theology should be challenged and argued. Elsewise, many, many sincere believers (mostly new believers) will be led down a path dark with pitfalls abounding.........
NOW.....
IF the OSAS'ers wanna change their "mantra" to Once Sanctified, Always Sanctified, then I could force myself to agree. However the oncesavedalwayssaved mantra is even refuted by Jesus Himself, as has been shown in many, many thousands of comments here on CC.
NOW.....
IF the OSAS'ers wanna change their "mantra" to Once Sanctified, Always Sanctified, then I could force myself to agree. However the oncesavedalwayssaved mantra is even refuted by Jesus Himself, as has been shown in many, many thousands of comments here on CC.
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I disagree with some of the posts and responses. I'm not backward in saying so either. However, I believe most people simply lack knowledge. Others seem to have trouble expressing what they really mean. I don't know if English is not your first language, but I sometimes find it hard to follow your logic.
I am confused by some of your objections. This one, for example.
"Or the endless fantasies of God allowing hardship or war or disease or pain and suffering. Blood shed ."
Hardship, war, disease, pain and suffering are part of the human experience. Lord Jesus said that we will suffer tribulation in this world. Now either God permits this, or God is powerless to intervene. You can't have it both ways.
I am confused by some of your objections. This one, for example.
"Or the endless fantasies of God allowing hardship or war or disease or pain and suffering. Blood shed ."
Hardship, war, disease, pain and suffering are part of the human experience. Lord Jesus said that we will suffer tribulation in this world. Now either God permits this, or God is powerless to intervene. You can't have it both ways.
There is just as much scripture to support OSAS as to contradict it. If Christians would take the time to study what the Word really says about salvation, the apparent contradiction would evaporate. There is no contradiction. The problem is the definition of salvation, which is misconstrued by many.
You do not know what sanctification is. It is in fact a gift from God and it is a person, Jesus. 1 Corinthians 1:30.
"But it is from Him that you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God [revealing His plan of salvation], and righteousness [making us acceptable to God], and sanctification [making us holy and setting us apart for God], and redemption [providing our ransom from the penalty for sin]...."
Now this needs to be worked out in our lives. That is the other aspect of salvation. We are holy, we need to live it. We are sanctified, we need to live it out day by day. We are righteous, we are justified and we are glorified. We need to learn to live in the light of what Jesus has done for us, if we are to be kingdom people.
If it was automatic, there would be no need for the Bible. Every word in the NT is addressed to Christians. We have choices to make and many are careless and lazy. That's why people need to be stirred up. But that is to exhort them to live out what God has made us to be, not to threaten them with damnation if they don't match up to your idea of holiness, or mine for that matter.
If Christians started saying, "Once born again, always born again", it would be more precise. The word salvation has lost its true meaning. It does not mean just going to heaven when you die. It means to be delivered. We need to be delivered from death, from sin, from self, Satan and the world system. That happens the moment we are born again. The Bible is crystal clear on this.
We are born again spiritually. The outworking takes place in the soul. There are two aspects. The first is spiritual knowledge. We need to know in order to grow. Along with this is the salvation of the soul. I don't know why people get so agitated by this statement. It is in God's word. And there is the problem. Many Christians do not know the difference between the initial born again experience and the ongoing salvation of the soul. Some denominations reject the idea of the salvation of soul. I know a Pentecostal pastor who was forced to stop preaching the subject by the Church authorities. He was threatened with loss of his Pastors' credentials. Personally, I would have told them what they could do with their "credentials". It is God who decides who is and who is not a ministry gift to the Church.
So much angst and so much disputation, and all totally unnecessary. If God causes us to be born again, how can we be unborn again? If God puts us into Christ, who can take us out? Is eternal life eternal or not? Is the life of Christ indestructible or not? (Hebrews 7:16)
You do not know what sanctification is. It is in fact a gift from God and it is a person, Jesus. 1 Corinthians 1:30.
"But it is from Him that you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God [revealing His plan of salvation], and righteousness [making us acceptable to God], and sanctification [making us holy and setting us apart for God], and redemption [providing our ransom from the penalty for sin]...."
Now this needs to be worked out in our lives. That is the other aspect of salvation. We are holy, we need to live it. We are sanctified, we need to live it out day by day. We are righteous, we are justified and we are glorified. We need to learn to live in the light of what Jesus has done for us, if we are to be kingdom people.
If it was automatic, there would be no need for the Bible. Every word in the NT is addressed to Christians. We have choices to make and many are careless and lazy. That's why people need to be stirred up. But that is to exhort them to live out what God has made us to be, not to threaten them with damnation if they don't match up to your idea of holiness, or mine for that matter.
If Christians started saying, "Once born again, always born again", it would be more precise. The word salvation has lost its true meaning. It does not mean just going to heaven when you die. It means to be delivered. We need to be delivered from death, from sin, from self, Satan and the world system. That happens the moment we are born again. The Bible is crystal clear on this.
We are born again spiritually. The outworking takes place in the soul. There are two aspects. The first is spiritual knowledge. We need to know in order to grow. Along with this is the salvation of the soul. I don't know why people get so agitated by this statement. It is in God's word. And there is the problem. Many Christians do not know the difference between the initial born again experience and the ongoing salvation of the soul. Some denominations reject the idea of the salvation of soul. I know a Pentecostal pastor who was forced to stop preaching the subject by the Church authorities. He was threatened with loss of his Pastors' credentials. Personally, I would have told them what they could do with their "credentials". It is God who decides who is and who is not a ministry gift to the Church.
So much angst and so much disputation, and all totally unnecessary. If God causes us to be born again, how can we be unborn again? If God puts us into Christ, who can take us out? Is eternal life eternal or not? Is the life of Christ indestructible or not? (Hebrews 7:16)
problem is people confuse the being saved with being born again. we are saved TO be born again but that being born again experience is only happening in the spirit and will FULLY happen in the resurrection when we will have our eternal bodies.
so a matter of timing though some people expect it to happen instantly all at once. There is all that walk in between...and we will still face trials and temptations and yes we may stumble and even fall but most of us can get up again. Thats what faith is all about
so a matter of timing though some people expect it to happen instantly all at once. There is all that walk in between...and we will still face trials and temptations and yes we may stumble and even fall but most of us can get up again. Thats what faith is all about
I certainly DO know what Sanctification is. Sanctification is when a believer receives the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit.
The Apostle spoke of the carnal "earthly" believer. Those new believers not yet able to feast on the meat of the Word. He also spoke of "spiritual" believers. Those who have matured in their life walk with Jesus, and have received the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. Thus becoming able to FEAST on the meat of the Word of God with "spiritual understanding" of Scripture. No longer bound to just earthly/physical understanding as are new believers not yet sanctified by the Holy Spirit.
Believe as you wish. Fine with me. It is your right. However, do not pretend to "school" me on the understanding of Scripture. You can certaily state "your opinion" on Scripture; but you have NOT been appointed as the "single source" of Scriptural interpretation.
The Apostle spoke of the carnal "earthly" believer. Those new believers not yet able to feast on the meat of the Word. He also spoke of "spiritual" believers. Those who have matured in their life walk with Jesus, and have received the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. Thus becoming able to FEAST on the meat of the Word of God with "spiritual understanding" of Scripture. No longer bound to just earthly/physical understanding as are new believers not yet sanctified by the Holy Spirit.
Believe as you wish. Fine with me. It is your right. However, do not pretend to "school" me on the understanding of Scripture. You can certaily state "your opinion" on Scripture; but you have NOT been appointed as the "single source" of Scriptural interpretation.
The Scriptures you speak of DO support Once Sanctified, Always Sanctified, but I disagree they support the OSAS ideology. Jesus Himself spoke against OSAS.....that is all I need to believe it is flawed theology. 
Galatians, Chapter 5: verses 16 through 26
16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
Bible verses related to Sanctification from the King James Version (KJV) by Relevance
- Sort By Book Order
2 Timothy 2:21 - If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
1 Thessalonians 5:23 - And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
John 17:17 - Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
2 Corinthians 5:17 - Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Galatians 2:20 - I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
2 Thessalonians 2:13 - But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
1 Thessalonians 4:3 - For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
Romans 6:6 - Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Hebrews 13:12 - Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.
1 Corinthians 6:11 - And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
1 Corinthians 1:2 - Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
Romans 6:1-23 - What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? (Read More...)
Hebrews 10:14 - For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
2 Peter 1:2-4 - Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, (Read More...)
Philippians 1:6 - Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Exodus 31:13 - Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
Bible verses related to Sanctification from the King James Version (KJV) by Relevance
- Sort By Book Order
2 Timothy 2:21 - If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
1 Thessalonians 5:23 - And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
John 17:17 - Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
2 Corinthians 5:17 - Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Galatians 2:20 - I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
2 Thessalonians 2:13 - But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
1 Thessalonians 4:3 - For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
Romans 6:6 - Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Hebrews 13:12 - Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.
1 Corinthians 6:11 - And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
1 Corinthians 1:2 - Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
Romans 6:1-23 - What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? (Read More...)
Hebrews 10:14 - For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
2 Peter 1:2-4 - Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, (Read More...)
Philippians 1:6 - Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Exodus 31:13 - Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
I see you do not understand the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, and what it does. Do you even believe in that indwelling presence? Do you believe in the Holy Trinity?
I am left wondering...........
Again, unless you have the Letter of Authority signed by the Lord God appointing YOU as the Singular Authority on all things Scriptural, I suggest you refrain from declaring who is wrong and/or who is right. To do so simply reveals your ignorance of Scriptural understanding as it deals with the Holy Spirit.
I am left wondering...........
Again, unless you have the Letter of Authority signed by the Lord God appointing YOU as the Singular Authority on all things Scriptural, I suggest you refrain from declaring who is wrong and/or who is right. To do so simply reveals your ignorance of Scriptural understanding as it deals with the Holy Spirit.
The subject is not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is a Person, not "it". I do believe that the Holy Spirit indwells believers. I believe the Bible. It says that Jesus is God, the Holy Spirit is God and the Father is God. People are free to correct me if they believe that I am saying something contrary to God's word. I will do likewise. Feel free to ignore me if you have an issue with that.
Ok so I have to go with the idea and notion that free will should always favour a doctrine you can't agree upon, in your decision making for the right to choose on whether you should become offended, ?.
Should I go on step further with free will and say if I choose to follow a doctrin unknowingly out of blindness, Satan then gets of scot free for every sin he help to cause, and then that causes me to make someone else stumble and be blamed, then that is also my full responsibility because I have free will.
The stumbling part being by accepting free will and the right to choose, I was blind in pointing out he who sins is completely there own fault because God give you free will to choose. When actually all sin should always be investigated to see if there manipulation going on, befor you become the accuser of God's children, and have someone blamed completely for the sin that took place.
Is this a Calvinist doctrine to believe that the accuser of God's children, Satan is also a matter of free will.
And I don't call call for doctrines to be banned, just the root doctrines of all bad doctrines , which I believe the one I am calling for to be banned, is.
Should I go on step further with free will and say if I choose to follow a doctrin unknowingly out of blindness, Satan then gets of scot free for every sin he help to cause, and then that causes me to make someone else stumble and be blamed, then that is also my full responsibility because I have free will.
The stumbling part being by accepting free will and the right to choose, I was blind in pointing out he who sins is completely there own fault because God give you free will to choose. When actually all sin should always be investigated to see if there manipulation going on, befor you become the accuser of God's children, and have someone blamed completely for the sin that took place.
Is this a Calvinist doctrine to believe that the accuser of God's children, Satan is also a matter of free will.
And I don't call call for doctrines to be banned, just the root doctrines of all bad doctrines , which I believe the one I am calling for to be banned, is.
I have issue with cocky Christians who Take up the attitude with OSAS, to say there saved and point out everybody is to blame for there own sin, them I have another issue with people who believe in OSAS also go to decide who is not saved,
Then I have another issue with OSAS, also becoming an accuser of God's children day in an day out behaving like Satan does, who had set himself up in this world as God.
I also have an issue with OSAS getting many good people banned here. Because those good people live good works.
Then I have an issue with OSAS also creating a free will choice where people behave as if they where God,
Then I have another issue with OSAS becoming a evil doctrin in the wrong hands, but hey it ok let all be calvinstit gives us something to talk about.
about the whole thing and say we have free will.
Then I have another issue with OSAS, also becoming an accuser of God's children day in an day out behaving like Satan does, who had set himself up in this world as God.
I also have an issue with OSAS getting many good people banned here. Because those good people live good works.
Then I have an issue with OSAS also creating a free will choice where people behave as if they where God,
Then I have another issue with OSAS becoming a evil doctrin in the wrong hands, but hey it ok let all be calvinstit gives us something to talk about.
about the whole thing and say we have free will.
that's ok you have free will to choose the worst bad doctrines here in cc, but also I would point out you may be a Calvinist for saying as much, I have done my research and it seems for every bad doctrin , behind the service if you look Satan is leading a person into sin. And everytime it's not noticed. Just like your blindness to.
Hi @Gideon300 post 118 was also a reply for your last post., But hey I hope your we'll after reading , and i hope you understand the truth a bit better now that I have taking time to explain my feelings.
Also I hope you don't take pain to your heart and stumble.
As all tho I am taking pain to heart, I believe I am becoming stronger each day by dealing with pain, but also I believe that has nothing to do with free will why I am learning to cope with the pain, of knowing how many people through there own confidence after believing in OSAS, have gone on to make somebody else stumble but could you call that free will also.
Or if I was to say to a calvinist hey do you realise free will is causing people to stumble, would they hey, say that's there choice, because in America we have something called liberty and freedom for all, not to mention the Sixth amendment.
Also I hope you don't take pain to your heart and stumble.
As all tho I am taking pain to heart, I believe I am becoming stronger each day by dealing with pain, but also I believe that has nothing to do with free will why I am learning to cope with the pain, of knowing how many people through there own confidence after believing in OSAS, have gone on to make somebody else stumble but could you call that free will also.
Or if I was to say to a calvinist hey do you realise free will is causing people to stumble, would they hey, say that's there choice, because in America we have something called liberty and freedom for all, not to mention the Sixth amendment.