which person is more sinfull in the eyes of God

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Which person is more sinfull in the Eyes of God


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Nov 26, 2011
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#61
All sin is not the same.

Num 15:27 And if any soul sin through ignorance, then he shall bring a she goat of the first year for a sin offering.
Num 15:28 And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the LORD, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him.
Num 15:29 Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.
Num 15:30 But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Num 15:31 Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.
Num 15:32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
Num 15:33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
Num 15:34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
Num 15:35 And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
Num 15:36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.

The above excerpt from Numbers clearly depicts a difference between sinning presumptuously and sinning in ignorance. Those who sinned ignorantly could approach God through the means of the sacrificial system and have their sin expiated whilst those who presumptuously sinned were shown no mercy.


Likewise we read in Hebrews...

Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Heb 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)
Heb 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Under the New Covenant we can boldly approach God directly by the blood of Jesus Christ in a new and living way (a faith that works by love apart from the works of the law [see Gal 5:4-6, Rom 7:4, 2Cor 3:3-6]). We are to draw near to God with a heart that is true (honest, sincere) through repentance and faith whereby we may be washed clean of an evil conscience and made pure.

This cleansing is due to the grace of God and this grace is not to be mocked by willfully sinning against the knowledge of the truth. No sacrifice remains for ongoing willful sin after having been sanctified by the blood of Jesus Christ. To presumptuously sin against grace is to mock God and spurn His grace. It is not the intention of God to cleanse a vessel who keeps defiling itself.

Clearly the Hebrews passage teaches that there is a difference in sin because it plainly uses the term "willful" sin and explains the reason why such action is to tread upon the blood of Christ.


Jesus spoke of a "greater sin."

Joh 19:10 Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee?
Joh 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.

Jesus clearly stated that the sin of religious authorities who had delivered Him over to be condemned was greater than the sin of Pilate.


Jesus healed a blind man and this man stood before the religious authorities and testified that Jesus has healed Him.

Joh 9:30 The man answered and said unto them, Why herein is a marvellous thing, that ye know not from whence he is, and yet he hath opened mine eyes.
Joh 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
Joh 9:32 Since the world began was it not heard that any man opened the eyes of one that was born blind.
Joh 9:33 If this man were not of God, he could do nothing.
Joh 9:34 They answered and said unto him, Thou wast altogether born in sins, and dost thou teach us? And they cast him out.
Joh 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?
Joh 9:36 He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him?
Joh 9:37 And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee.
Joh 9:38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.
Joh 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
Joh 9:40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
Joh 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

Jesus told the Pharisees that their sin remained because they were not blind implying that the witness of truth was right in front of them yet they refused. This, after all, is the condemnation Jesus spoke of with Nicodemus...

Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Joh 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

The Bible clearly differentiates between presumptuous sin and non-presumptuous sin.

Paul testified in 2 Thessalonians that God would send strong delusion on those who received not a love of the truth. Unrighteousness is extremely deceiving and those who choose the pleasure of unrighteousness refusing to come to the light will perish.

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


Paul also contrasts obedience from the heart with disobedience (willful sin) in Romans chapter 6.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

"Yielding to sin" is "sinning unto death" whilst "obedience from the heart" sets one free from the "service of sin."



John writes in the fifth chapter of his first epistle...

1Jn 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
1Jn 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

In the above extract John speaks of "sin unto death" and "sin not unto death." Sin unto death it simply outright disobedience to God from a rebellious heart and because God gives men the CHOICE as whether to obey Him or not means that God is not going to change someone against their will. Hence there is no point in praying for the outright disobedient. Those who err and are thus sinning ignorantly have not necessarily spurned the grace of God thus they have hope.

There is no hope for someone who is in outright rebellion to God whilst they remain in that state. They need to repent lest they will perish just like those who built the Tower of Siloam (Luke 13:1-5).




This verse is abused by many...

Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

The context of the above verse is in regards to hypcrisy.

Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

In other words if a person is doing what they think is good in one area but doing evil in another then they stand guilty before God like any other transgressor. In verse 8 James says that we are to LOVE and we know that LOVE WORKS NO ILL (Rom 13:8) and thus fulfills the law.


In conclusion it is the HEART of a man that matters. Jesus gave Himself for us that He might redeem us from all iniquity and purify us that we be zealous of doing that which is right.

Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

The end of the commandment is love out of a PURE HEART, a GOOD CONSCIENCE and FAITH UNFEIGNED.

1Ti 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

Thus the righteous man may stumble many times (sin ignorantly) but they rise up again and continue on growing in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ. It is the wicked who do evil willfully.

Pro 24:16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.




The danger of equating all sin as the same is it condones a mindset that one can willfully be in rebellion to God and be reconciled at the same time. It is not so. Those who work iniquity will be rejected at the judgement and only the doers of God's will will enter the kingdom. Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God, not those who have guile.

Psa 32:1 A Psalm of David, Maschil. Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
Psa 32:2 Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

Psa 32:11 Be glad in the LORD, and rejoice, ye righteous: and shout for joy, all ye that are upright in heart.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
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#62
this is seen in the law.

God gave more severe punishment for sins which caused harm to society or to others, than he did for sins which caused less damage.

He did not command a liar be put to death, but a murderer he commanded to be stoned.

the problem is we look at this aspect. and see i do not do these grave sins, thus I must be ok with god.. when in reality, as has been posted a few times, according to james, when we commit even these so called "lesser" sins. we are just as guilty and evil in the eyes of God as those who commit the more "sever' sin.

all sin is evil in the eyes of God. all sin separates.
True, but the more sever sin will still bring greater consequences on earth and even in hell.

Proverbs 24
[SUP]12 [/SUP]If you say, “Surely we did not know this,”
Does not He who weighs the hearts consider it?
He who keeps your soul, does He not know it?
And will He not render to each man according to his deeds?


Luke 12:47-48

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]47 [/SUP]And that servant who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. [SUP]48 [/SUP]But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more.

Romans 2
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, [SUP]6 [/SUP]who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
 
Sep 10, 2013
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#63
St Matthew 12, 31-32:

31. Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

32. And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
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#64
Hi Roger,

Yes, God is a God of absolutes, but He also know our true motivations...
So it is OK to kill someone if our motivations are good? Is it OK to steal from you if part of it goes to the church?

God's absolutes are absolutely righteous and any sin is not tolerated. Only the righteousness of Christ is sufficient in God's eyes.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#65
St Matthew 12, 31-32:

31. Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

32. And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
Interesting that Jesus was talking to religious people.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Sep 10, 2013
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#66
So it is OK to kill someone if our motivations are good? Is it OK to steal from you if part of it goes to the church?

God's absolutes are absolutely righteous and any sin is not tolerated. Only the righteousness of Christ is sufficient in God's eyes.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Please, don`t twist like this my words. I assume that if you responded to my posts is because you have read all what I said.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#67
So it is OK to kill someone if our motivations are good? Is it OK to steal from you if part of it goes to the church?

God's absolutes are absolutely righteous and any sin is not tolerated. Only the righteousness of Christ is sufficient in God's eyes.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Now with this I agree.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#69
Please, don`t twist like this my words. I assume that if you responded to my posts is because you have read all what I said.
I am not twisting your words, I'm trying to examine them in light of scripture. Can you point to one scripture where Jesus excused sin because someone had the right motive? Don't fall into the trap of thinking that God excuses sin just because He doesn't judge sin immediately. Thank God He is slow to anger or we all would have perished long ago.

Bearing false witness, lying, is a sin. Stealing is a sin as well as killing someone. We can have forgiveness for these sins through the blood of Christ. Don't worry about exceptions like the sin of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit because it takes specific knowledge to sin that sin and believers cannot sin that sin. The more we sin the easier it is for us to sin. We become comfortable with sin and no longer feel conviction about how wrong sin really is in Gods eyes. We have all heard of men so evil that they had no conscience left. The bible says their conscience was seared with a hot iron. They are brute beasts fitted for destruction.

All that to say that the motivations of the heart of man are continuously evil. Romans 3 telling us that there are no people that seek after God. They are all gone out of the way and become unprofitable.

Gods word is absolute in its authority and Gods judgment is absolute. Until we have been born again we can have no good motivations.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Sep 10, 2013
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#70


Rahab and the Spies

2 Then Joshua son of Nun secretly sent two spies from Shittim. “Go, look over the land,” he said, “especially Jericho.” So they went and entered the house of a prostitute named Rahab and stayed there.
2 The king of Jericho was told, “Look, some of the Israelites have come here tonight to spy out the land.” 3 So the king of Jericho sent this message to Rahab: “Bring out the men who came to you and entered your house, because they have come to spy out the whole land.”
4 But the woman had taken the two men and hidden them. She said, “Yes, the men came to me, but I did not know where they had come from. 5 At dusk, when it was time to close the city gate, they left. I don’t know which way they went. Go after them quickly. You may catch up with them.” 6 (But she had taken them up to the roof and hidden them under the stalks of flax she had laid out on the roof.)7 So the men set out in pursuit of the spies on the road that leads to the fords of the Jordan, and as soon as the pursuers had gone out, the gate was shut.





 
Sep 10, 2013
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#71
Hebrews 11, 31: By faith the prostitute Rahab, because she welcomed the spies, was not killed with those who were disobedient.

 
Sep 10, 2013
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#72
I am not twisting your words, I'm trying to examine them in light of scripture. Can you point to one scripture where Jesus excused sin because someone had the right motive? Don't fall into the trap of thinking that God excuses sin just because He doesn't judge sin immediately. Thank God He is slow to anger or we all would have perished long ago.







Well, Roger? How about the example of Rahab? (Joshua ch. 2)
 
Dec 9, 2011
13,787
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#73
Hi
If someone threw a small rock at my car windshield and put a crack in it,or if they threw a large rock and shatered the windshield,the windshield would need to be replaced.

If i had to jump a certain heigth to qualify to go to heaven and i were M.J ,i might get almost there,but if i was a couch potato,i might only be able to jump a few inches.

what i am saying is,wheather i could get almost there or only a few inches off the ground,if i miss heaven by a few inches i missed it by a mile.

James 2:10

viewing the king james version(kjv)

[SUP]10[/SUP] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#74
God is the God of the law. not just the sabbath, but all the laws.. he commanded someone to marry a prostitute if I remember right. He does this all the time, But it is for the good.

We should not excuse any sin we have, just because God said it is ok on a few occasions.. Which I have seen people do!
You are saying that God would command someone to lie? To steal? To murder?

Would that not make Him two-faced for judging that sin which He commanded someone to do?

Would you show me where He commanded Moses to lie?
 
Last edited:
Mar 20, 2013
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#75
All humans were born in sin. Does it help us to be concerned with "which person is more sinful in God's eyes?" If you are looking for someone who is the most sinful, then you are missing the good examples of righteousness. It's futile and almost offensive to spend time trying to judge who's more wicked than another.
 

Drett

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2013
1,663
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#76
I am not twisting your words, I'm trying to examine them in light of scripture. Can you point to one scripture where Jesus excused sin because someone had the right motive? Don't fall into the trap of thinking that God excuses sin just because He doesn't judge sin immediately. Thank God He is slow to anger or we all would have perished long ago.

Bearing false witness, lying, is a sin. Stealing is a sin as well as killing someone. We can have forgiveness for these sins through the blood of Christ. Don't worry about exceptions like the sin of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit because it takes specific knowledge to sin that sin and believers cannot sin that sin. The more we sin the easier it is for us to sin. We become comfortable with sin and no longer feel conviction about how wrong sin really is in Gods eyes. We have all heard of men so evil that they had no conscience left. The bible says their conscience was seared with a hot iron. They are brute beasts fitted for destruction.

All that to say that the motivations of the heart of man are continuously evil. Romans 3 telling us that there are no people that seek after God. They are all gone out of the way and become unprofitable.

Gods word is absolute in its authority and Gods judgment is absolute. Until we have been born again we can have no good motivations.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
In Christianity do you have the lesser of two evils ? You commit a smaller sin to stop a bigger sin ? Someone is going to shoot you or your child and you shoot them first. I can see a lot of Christians may need to give their guns away if it is a sin to use it against anyone under any circumstance.
 
C

CRC

Guest
#77
(Romans 6:23) 23For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord. Sin pays but one wage.
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
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#78
Wouldn't picking which is more sinful mean you're answering FOR God? That's something id stay away from. It isn't up to us to determine who has the greater sin when ALL sin should be asked for forgiveness.
 
C

Canchristiansgetalong

Guest
#79
When I got on this I put that that they are all equal in God's eyes, but I have been thinking about it and I disagree with myself now. God loves all his children equally. That is equal and will never change. But sins have degrees. One example of this in the bible is in Exodus 32:21 and 31. In both of these verses, God refers to a "great sin." He would never have said that if all sin was equally sin. great sin means there is less sin.
 
J

jesusmyhomie

Guest
#80
None but fornicating his word, believing other gods