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What???? Over 30 views and not one who has read believes or has a verse that supports Christ return BEFORE the tribulation?
Still curious to know what verses are used....so many claim that Christ will return to take His saints before the worse time on earth. Not only that...but they claim that the saints that will be taken will not know when it will happen. But that does not line up with scripture either!
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What???? Over 30 views and not one who has read believes or has a verse that supports Christ return BEFORE the tribulation?
Still curious to know what verses are used....so many claim that Christ will return to take His saints before the worse time on earth. Not only that...but they claim that the saints that will be taken will not know when it will happen. But that does not line up with scripture either!
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We Meet the LORD in the Air !He Does not return to the earth ! The Dead in Christ rise first !They are with Him Now1 we that are alive here !Go up to meet Him in the air !Then after the Great tribulation return here with Him to rule for 1000 years ! Only our Spirit goes up ,then we enter our New Bodies in Heaven [New Jerusalem ] and get our New names ,robes ,crowns , Jobs which we do when we return here ! The kings will be over nations , The lords over a citiy or Cities ?
Those are part of our rewards for our Works !
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
This is Us Returning with our LORD from New Jerusalem !
Jud_1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
1Th_4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
GOD giving me great understanding of the spiritual trues of the New Testament ! Many have greater understanding of the carnal !
1Co_2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
He been Teaching me since 1972 !
Those are part of our rewards for our Works !
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
This is Us Returning with our LORD from New Jerusalem !
Jud_1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
1Th_4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
GOD giving me great understanding of the spiritual trues of the New Testament ! Many have greater understanding of the carnal !
1Co_2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
He been Teaching me since 1972 !
The following verses do not describe a time of which the believers would be in the great tribulation, but before that time when the believers are free to buy & sell, eating & drinking, marrying & given in marriage that the cares of this life & times now would be a snare to them... so it applies to us now to be ready so take heed of His warnings.
Luke 14:15-33 Jesus refers to the supper & how believers wanting to be His disciples & yet not willing to leave when the time comes.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2014:15-33&version=KJV
Luke 12:40-49 Jesus calls for readiness in answering Peter's question that it is to all believers.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2012:40-49&version=KJV
Luke 21:33-36 Jesus talks about how the cares of this life can be a snare to the believers which is hardly descriptive of the time when believers cannot buy nor sell in order to be ensnared by those things for these warnings to have any merits for the saints left behind to face the great tribulation.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2021:33-36&version=KJV
Luke 17:26-37 talks about how escaping the disaster that is coming on the earth will result in being taken to where the body is which is in relation symbolically to the Son of Man in Luke 21:33-36 above.
Just as Jesus warned the believers in being His disciples, so did God warn the churches in Revelation.
Revelation 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
Compare to earlier report in that chapter of those escaping to a place above:
Revelation 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
So there are three harvests that makes up the whole of teh kingdom of God.
Matthew 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
1 Corinthians 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
So 1st harvest: pre tribulational rapture event: Christ & the firstfruits
2nd harvest: Christ at His coming
3rd harvest: after the defeat of Satan for the last time
Then the kingdom is given up to God the Father when the whole is leavened.
Luke 14:15-33 Jesus refers to the supper & how believers wanting to be His disciples & yet not willing to leave when the time comes.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2014:15-33&version=KJV
Luke 12:40-49 Jesus calls for readiness in answering Peter's question that it is to all believers.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2012:40-49&version=KJV
Luke 21:33-36 Jesus talks about how the cares of this life can be a snare to the believers which is hardly descriptive of the time when believers cannot buy nor sell in order to be ensnared by those things for these warnings to have any merits for the saints left behind to face the great tribulation.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2021:33-36&version=KJV
Luke 17:26-37 talks about how escaping the disaster that is coming on the earth will result in being taken to where the body is which is in relation symbolically to the Son of Man in Luke 21:33-36 above.
Just as Jesus warned the believers in being His disciples, so did God warn the churches in Revelation.
Revelation 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
Compare to earlier report in that chapter of those escaping to a place above:
Revelation 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
So there are three harvests that makes up the whole of teh kingdom of God.
Matthew 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
1 Corinthians 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
So 1st harvest: pre tribulational rapture event: Christ & the firstfruits
2nd harvest: Christ at His coming
3rd harvest: after the defeat of Satan for the last time
Then the kingdom is given up to God the Father when the whole is leavened.
Paul is talking about two events just as he did here below in verse 3:
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Our gathering unto Him comes first because of the falling away from the faith which will signal God judging His House first.
1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
Then at His coming, He will destroy the wicked one, that son of perdition.
2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
Then Paul deferentiates again by going to the event of the falling away from the faith which is prior to that event above.
2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Paul goes on to explain this falling away from the faith which was happening even back in his days by reminding them of the truth when they had received the promise of the Holy Spirit when the believed in Jesus Christ, the love of the truth.
2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
So that falling away from the faith is happening even now as culminating down through history up to the holy laughter movements in 1994 and present day so there is a need for God to judge His House first.
If you consider what Paul wrote in the next chapter that these disorderly believers as wicked and unreasonable men not having faith and not following after the traditions taught of us are not to be treated as an enemy, but admonished as a brother by withdrawing from them... then you can see why God would have the elect withdraw from the wayward when it is time to attend the Marriage Supper.
2 Thessalonians 3:1Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you: 2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith. 3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil. 4 And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you. 5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ. 6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. 7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you; .....14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.
Say what? How can this be, one would ask?
John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
But yet....
1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
So that is what the pre tribulational rapture is for: to judge His House first and for the Good Shepherd to restore the wayward to the path of righteousness for His name's sake by leaving them behind to face the coming great tribulation.
Note the requirement for fellowship is liken unto a feast and thus as God led Paul to teach about excommunication in what it serves to what end, so will God do in judging His House.
1 Corinthians 5: 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
That's the purpose for which the pre trib rapture is when God will excommunicate the unrepentant and wayward saints to restore them to the path of righteousness for His name's sake as Jesus is the Good Shepherd.
Note therequirment for eating at the Supper as the same for fellowship.
6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? 7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
We see here the elect that follows His voice and the wayward for following the stranger's voice which is applicable to tongues that comes with no interpretation, but is vain and profane babblings, but take note that He MUST bring them because they are His as bought with a price and sealed as His.
John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. 4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.....14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
So other sheep that He has means they are His, and so He must bring them because of this promise in spite of the prophesy of teh falling away from the faith.
John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Our gathering unto Him comes first because of the falling away from the faith which will signal God judging His House first.
1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
Then at His coming, He will destroy the wicked one, that son of perdition.
2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
Then Paul deferentiates again by going to the event of the falling away from the faith which is prior to that event above.
2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Paul goes on to explain this falling away from the faith which was happening even back in his days by reminding them of the truth when they had received the promise of the Holy Spirit when the believed in Jesus Christ, the love of the truth.
2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
So that falling away from the faith is happening even now as culminating down through history up to the holy laughter movements in 1994 and present day so there is a need for God to judge His House first.
If you consider what Paul wrote in the next chapter that these disorderly believers as wicked and unreasonable men not having faith and not following after the traditions taught of us are not to be treated as an enemy, but admonished as a brother by withdrawing from them... then you can see why God would have the elect withdraw from the wayward when it is time to attend the Marriage Supper.
2 Thessalonians 3:1Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you: 2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith. 3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil. 4 And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you. 5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ. 6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. 7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you; .....14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.
Say what? How can this be, one would ask?
John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
But yet....
1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
So that is what the pre tribulational rapture is for: to judge His House first and for the Good Shepherd to restore the wayward to the path of righteousness for His name's sake by leaving them behind to face the coming great tribulation.
Note the requirement for fellowship is liken unto a feast and thus as God led Paul to teach about excommunication in what it serves to what end, so will God do in judging His House.
1 Corinthians 5: 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
That's the purpose for which the pre trib rapture is when God will excommunicate the unrepentant and wayward saints to restore them to the path of righteousness for His name's sake as Jesus is the Good Shepherd.
Note therequirment for eating at the Supper as the same for fellowship.
6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? 7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
We see here the elect that follows His voice and the wayward for following the stranger's voice which is applicable to tongues that comes with no interpretation, but is vain and profane babblings, but take note that He MUST bring them because they are His as bought with a price and sealed as His.
John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. 4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.....14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
So other sheep that He has means they are His, and so He must bring them because of this promise in spite of the prophesy of teh falling away from the faith.
John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
P
Jesus comes immediately after the tribulation and gathers to gathers elect from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
Matt24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
And here we are standing on the sea of glass AFTER getting the victory over the beast and his mark, and then the wrath of God is poured out on the men that have the mark of the beast.
Rev 15:1And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
Revelation 16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
Just a few verses and there are plenty more
Matt24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
And here we are standing on the sea of glass AFTER getting the victory over the beast and his mark, and then the wrath of God is poured out on the men that have the mark of the beast.
Rev 15:1And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
Revelation 16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
Just a few verses and there are plenty more
P
There are no scriptures.
Have you ever seen a scripture saying Jesus comes before the great tribulation?
Have you ever seen a scripture showing an event were Jesus comes before the great tribulation?.
Have you ever seen a scripture were you see Jesus coming in the clouds before the great tribulation?
Have you ever seen a scripture were you see the dead rising In the clouds before the great tribulation.?
Have you ever seen a scripture showing the last trumpet sounding before the great tribulation? NO.
Even this verse is a post-tribulation coming
1 Corinthians 15:51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Even this verse is a post-tribulation coming
1Th 4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
But there are scriptures showing Jesus coming after the great tribulation.Matt24 in the clouds at the sound of a trumpet and the angels reaping
And the dead rising at the last trumpet after the great tribulation.Rv11 “come up hither”
Rv11;11And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
15 And the seventh angel sounded. (The last trumpet)
The prophets killed for their faith
The disciples killed and torched for their faith
Jesus killed and torched for his faith
Daniel thrown to the lion’s den
Daniel thrown into the fire for not bowing to the image
17 If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king.
18 BUT IF NOT, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.
Not all die in the great tribulation… 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air:
It’s beyond me how Christians think they will be resurrected before great tribulation and that there will be No testing NO purging No purifying No coming through as gold.
God has given you NO such thing you are still thinking in the carnal
Apparently not long enough ...
.
Have you ever seen a scripture saying Jesus comes before the great tribulation?
Have you ever seen a scripture showing an event were Jesus comes before the great tribulation?.
Have you ever seen a scripture were you see Jesus coming in the clouds before the great tribulation?
Have you ever seen a scripture were you see the dead rising In the clouds before the great tribulation.?
Have you ever seen a scripture showing the last trumpet sounding before the great tribulation? NO.
Even this verse is a post-tribulation coming
1 Corinthians 15:51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Even this verse is a post-tribulation coming
1Th 4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
But there are scriptures showing Jesus coming after the great tribulation.Matt24 in the clouds at the sound of a trumpet and the angels reaping
And the dead rising at the last trumpet after the great tribulation.Rv11 “come up hither”
Rv11;11And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
15 And the seventh angel sounded. (The last trumpet)
The prophets killed for their faith
The disciples killed and torched for their faith
Jesus killed and torched for his faith
Daniel thrown to the lion’s den
Daniel thrown into the fire for not bowing to the image
17 If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king.
18 BUT IF NOT, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.
Not all die in the great tribulation… 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air:
It’s beyond me how Christians think they will be resurrected before great tribulation and that there will be No testing NO purging No purifying No coming through as gold.
God has given you NO such thing you are still thinking in the carnal
Apparently not long enough ...
.
G
I find it funny how those that believe in the pre-trib rapture use the exact passages that clearly show the return of Christ and the resurection of the Church taking place after the great tribulation. Except they stop sort of reading the very next verse that makes this as clear as cristal that the return of Christ and the resurection are the same exact time and at the end of the great tribulation.
I have confronted many on this exclution of scripture in order to make there teaching appear correct only to have them become angry with me. Because they know I just shot there boat full of holes and they are sinking fast, but still refuse to let go of the false teaching. They would rather go down with there sinking ship than admit they are wrong and turn to the truth.
It would mean they would have to give up living in there life of sin and unrighteousness and truly come to Christ in repentence, turning from the sin they so enjoy. They would have to admit there are not saved living in sin.
The thing I hear more than anything is "it really don't matter when Christ returns it has no effect on salvation. Our salvation is not based on whether we believe in a pre-trib or post-trib rapture."
But our salvation does hinge upon what we beleive about the time of the resurection (rapture). Because if we will believe this one lie we will believe many other lies and false teaching about Christ and salvation.
And those that believe the lie of a pre-trib rapture have proven they have cast of the truth given to us by God and believe every lie the false teachers have taught them.
Many have even bought into the gap theory being taught. Among many other lies. I could name them all but it would make no difference, they will just keep believing the lies having there ears tickled with the feal good preaching, never having there heart pricked by the truth.
This is why they become so angry and defensive in these chat forums when they hear the truth. It pricks there heart and they don't like how it makes them feel.
My heart goes out to all that are allowing themselves to be led down the road to destruction.
I have confronted many on this exclution of scripture in order to make there teaching appear correct only to have them become angry with me. Because they know I just shot there boat full of holes and they are sinking fast, but still refuse to let go of the false teaching. They would rather go down with there sinking ship than admit they are wrong and turn to the truth.
It would mean they would have to give up living in there life of sin and unrighteousness and truly come to Christ in repentence, turning from the sin they so enjoy. They would have to admit there are not saved living in sin.
The thing I hear more than anything is "it really don't matter when Christ returns it has no effect on salvation. Our salvation is not based on whether we believe in a pre-trib or post-trib rapture."
But our salvation does hinge upon what we beleive about the time of the resurection (rapture). Because if we will believe this one lie we will believe many other lies and false teaching about Christ and salvation.
And those that believe the lie of a pre-trib rapture have proven they have cast of the truth given to us by God and believe every lie the false teachers have taught them.
Many have even bought into the gap theory being taught. Among many other lies. I could name them all but it would make no difference, they will just keep believing the lies having there ears tickled with the feal good preaching, never having there heart pricked by the truth.
This is why they become so angry and defensive in these chat forums when they hear the truth. It pricks there heart and they don't like how it makes them feel.
My heart goes out to all that are allowing themselves to be led down the road to destruction.
G
Texan:
This is wonderful to hear that this has been eye opening for you. Jesus teaches us that in order to see the truth our eyes must be open.
As you discuss this with your preacher and Sunday school teacher. Keep in mind all things must be proven by God's word and God's word alone.
This study on the time of the tribulation and Resurection are layed out in God's word very clearly if we want to see it. If our eyes are open.
There is a detailed timeline of these events that shows the order in which the happen.
I pray you allow the LORD to lead and guide you in your understinding of his Holy Word.
Trust NO man. Do not even trust what I may have to day without proving me by the Word of God.
Always go to God and ask him: is this truly what you have said?
Eve did not do this in the Garden of Eden and look where we are today.
If only she had gone to what God had taught to prove if what she was told was true or not!
Texan, I will be praying the LORD leads you in his truth and righteousness.
Seek to Glorify God in everthing you say and do.
In the LOVE of Christ Jesus
Grace
This is wonderful to hear that this has been eye opening for you. Jesus teaches us that in order to see the truth our eyes must be open.
As you discuss this with your preacher and Sunday school teacher. Keep in mind all things must be proven by God's word and God's word alone.
This study on the time of the tribulation and Resurection are layed out in God's word very clearly if we want to see it. If our eyes are open.
There is a detailed timeline of these events that shows the order in which the happen.
I pray you allow the LORD to lead and guide you in your understinding of his Holy Word.
Trust NO man. Do not even trust what I may have to day without proving me by the Word of God.
Always go to God and ask him: is this truly what you have said?
Eve did not do this in the Garden of Eden and look where we are today.
If only she had gone to what God had taught to prove if what she was told was true or not!
Texan, I will be praying the LORD leads you in his truth and righteousness.
Seek to Glorify God in everthing you say and do.
In the LOVE of Christ Jesus
Grace
Do any of you actually realize what is going to happen during this time of the great tribulation coming upon the earth? If you really did, would it be any wonder why the Lord would keep us from and catch us away from that hour and that time of trouble? It is like you are dreaming in your sleep and you have not awakened out of your coma. This time of trouble is not for the church nor has it been ordained for any of those who have believed upon the Son as a member of Christ's body. The mystery of Christ and the church is not present during this terrible time and the work and conviction of the Spirit within the believers of the church is not present to provide a restraining force that keeps the the Antichrist from coming upon the scene, who is a literal person with a system of iniquity to back him up.
If you are referring to the use of the first resurrection in Revelation, then let's look again.
An important note not mentioned earlier is how Satan has the armies of the world gathered at the valley of Armegeddon to meet the coming of the Lord with the saints, and yet no man knows the time?
Here's a paradox that most contenders are overlooking. Here is Jesus coming back with the saints to do battle with Satan.
Zechariah 14:1Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
The prophesy here is that the Lord comes with the saints to do battle...but
Revelation 20:1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Satan is defeated and placed in the pit for a thousand years. but then afterwards....
Revelation 20: 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
So it was after the defeat of Satan & his armies that these saints as described as coming out of the great tribulation were then resurrected, and not before.
So who were the saints that came back with Jesus?
Most contenders zero in on this following portion of the verse, misapplying it to mean it was THE first resurrection, but in context, it was just saying that the resurrection of the just was before the coming & future resurrection of the unjust.
Revelation 20: 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
It was not saying that there was no other resurrection because that would go against scripture.
Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
This was a confusing portion of scripture that was mentioned and misapplied as saying that the resurrection was past already for which Paul said such teaching was in error.
2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
So believers recognized that this resurrection in Matthew 27:52-53 was not the promised gathering of the present saints with the OT saints.
Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. 25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. 29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. 30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.
So there is a sitting down of the disciples with the OT saints when being received by Christ in the kingdom of God. That means there will be a celebration first before He returns with the saints.
There are 3 watches, but only the first watch comes with a meal of which there would be a sitting down to eat.
Luke 12:37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them. 38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.
The second watch & the third watch does not have a meal for which these saints of the other harvest will partake of so those coming out of the great tribulation will not be partaking of the Marriage Supper in the kingdom of God which takes place before He comes back with those repatured saints to judge the world.
As there are 3 watches, so are there 3 harvests that makes up the whole of the kingdom of God.
Matthew 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
Because how God is making up the whole of the kingdom of heaven, believers need discernment to see what is hidden which is the pre-trib rapture that is actually the first harvest when God judges His House first, leaving the unrepentant believers behind for not being ready, let alone not watching.
Contenders should not overlook how there will be a third harvest of loyal followers of Christ after Satan is released from the pit for a small season after the 1000 year reign of Christ to lead a last rebellion against Christ of when Satan will be defeated for the last time.
So when believers read the "first resurrection" as applied is not taken into account about how the other resurrection of the dead will happen later. It was not the actual first resurrection as meaning that after all, especially since the description of the second resurrection/harvest was befitting only those coming out of the great tribulation in regards to the mark of the beast. So "first resurrection" just meant the earlier one before the next one mentioned in that verse about the rest of the dead.
P
Your right about that No Scriptures.
But how did you get a 7 year Tribulation period?
You will have to go back and look again “DiscipleDave” because the tribulation starts in the middle of that week, in the middle of that 7 year covenant
Jesus said in Matt24
15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand.
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Now go to Daniel and see what Jesus was talking about.
Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
In the middle of that 7 year covenant you see the abomination of desolation, and Jesus said 21 For then shall be great tribulation.
A week is 7 years.
Genesis 29:27 Fulfil her week, and we will give thee this also for the service which thou shalt serve with me yet seven other years.
It’s a 3 ½ year great tribulation “DiscipleDave” and all this is confirmed by revelation as it talks about a 3 ½ year time line or 1260 days, 42 months, and time, and times, and half a time
But how did you get a 7 year Tribulation period?
You will have to go back and look again “DiscipleDave” because the tribulation starts in the middle of that week, in the middle of that 7 year covenant
Jesus said in Matt24
15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand.
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Now go to Daniel and see what Jesus was talking about.
Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
In the middle of that 7 year covenant you see the abomination of desolation, and Jesus said 21 For then shall be great tribulation.
A week is 7 years.
Genesis 29:27 Fulfil her week, and we will give thee this also for the service which thou shalt serve with me yet seven other years.
It’s a 3 ½ year great tribulation “DiscipleDave” and all this is confirmed by revelation as it talks about a 3 ½ year time line or 1260 days, 42 months, and time, and times, and half a time