WHO ARE THE ELECT?

[eternally-gratefull]

EG,

Were you born a sinner by nature?
Was that your choice?
Or was it because of one man's sin?

the very first sin I committed was by choice. that sin alone was enough to condemn me for all eternity. even though I was born in sin, I eventually stood on my own to feet and fell short of the glory of God, because I SINNED!

Were you made subject to vanity willingly?
And Here is the big question,....

Could you today Choose to stop folowing God and go back
to being a sinner or should I say, the first nature you had?

Yes I could. I could easily tell god thanks and become a prodigal son. but here is your question. did the prodigal son stop being the son?

You really think you chose God, And called on Him
Without any influence from The Holy Spirit's conviction?

The HS convicts everyone, see romans 1. But this does not mean everyone will chose to place their faith in what he says,

John 6: 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.

Did God force them to believe, even though they heard the same words of the spirit those who believed did? or did God force them not to believe?

NO WAY, people are really deceiveing themselves if they think
they could choose God apart from God,

why don't you try listening to what people believe, and you would understand and not sit here making false claims. I never claimed anyone could come to God without God. so you are wrong in your assertion!

and if that is so then
Christ Died in Vain for you, because it is Him who has been made a
Quickening Spirit. And why... to save us, we were helpless, and
hopeless without the work of the Cross, don't you realize that
because of His Nature to follow His Father's will, is what causes
us to do the same. If He was to take His Holy Spirit from you today
you would be the same as you were before He came, lost.

I don't have to worry about that. God tells me I was sealed by the HS of promise, who is my guarantee until the day of redemption. so why would I even fathom?

Now, Second chance.......I have never taught a second chance
you have assumed that's what I mean when I say that all men
will be saved. I beleive that if they did not recieve salvation here
then it's because God did not chose to Grant them repentance.
So they never had a first chance.
He is the Light, if He witholds that Light then they remain in darkness..

Well you would be wrong. Paul tells us in romans quite clearly!

Romans 1 (New King James Version)

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Romans 1

New King James Version (NKJV)

Romans 1

Greeting

1 Paul, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated to the gospel of God 2 which He promised before through His prophets in the Holy Scriptures, 3 concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, 4 and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead. 5 Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name, 6 among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ;

7 To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints:

Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.Desire to Visit Rome


8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world. 9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of His Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers, 10 making request if, by some means, now at last I may find a way in the will of God to come to you. 11 For I long to see you, that I may impart to you some spiritual gift, so that you may be established— 12 that is, that I may be encouraged together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.
13 Now I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that I often planned to come to you (but was hindered until now), that I might have some fruit among you also, just as among the other Gentiles. 14 I am a debtor both to Greeks and to barbarians, both to wise and to unwise. 15 So, as much as is in me, I am ready to preach the gospel to you who are in Rome also.The Just Live by Faith


16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ,[a] for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”[b]God’s Wrath on Unrighteousness


18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

God does not suppress the truth, or keep it from them. they do it themselves!

19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.

God showed it to them also. He gave them a chance.

20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

Again. God has revealed it to them. But THEY CHOSE not to glorify God, but chose to reject him, They are without excuse. if like you say, they did not have a chance, they would have an excuse. Because God did not reveal truth to them, and give them a chance to reject. But paul says here they not only know. But thought they were wise and instead made different Gods to worship. as we do today!

God saves, .......... we do not choose, it may feel like that, but it is not
that way.
If we could choose Him, why did we wait so long, why did'nt we call on
Him much sooner?

Maybe because we were stubborn and did not want to because of sin or whatever? This question makes no sense. We do not chose earlier because of free will. If God chose us and forced us, why did he allow us to live in sin so long? why did he not force us at an early age, and prevent us from making so many mistakes.

You have it backwards. your question supports freewill.

Free will, absurd, and man made, so they can feel superior to God.
Rubish.

Superior? lol.. wow. where did this come from?

How can I be superior to god. God had to come to earth to save me or I would have no hope. That means I am a sad thing with no hope apart from God.

I can not do any work to save myself. I have to sit still and let God do all thew work. Thus I am a slave to God for without God, I have no hope.

Why don't you try to think about what your saying, I don't know who taught you this stuff. but they have sadly led you astray!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

sorry I did not see all of romans was quoted. can't fix now

 

[A-Omega]

If you knew the word, and knew Him, you would not have to ask.

Come on, behave.

But since you did.

Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

What does this prove aside from what it plainly states? That Christ died for sinners?

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Again, I don't know what this establishes. All people are sinners. Correct. That's why Christ died for us.

Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

Ok, so this verse is being ripped from its context. If you are trying to say it is proof that God chose us, or perhaps you, since you are 'elect', that's not what it means. The verse is not even referring to Christians.

18For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.


What the verse is saying in context is that because of sin, humanity is subject to vanity as part of our punishment. We are decaying and dying and know it. But the same God who gave this punishment, gave us hope of redemption. That is what it means. God has given this hope to everyone, which is self evident.

Joh 6:44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Again, these are verses just being ripped from their context. Here is the passage:


41The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven. 42And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
43Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.



Jesus had just proclaimed himself to be the bread of heaven and the pharisees interrupted Him with their murmuring. He was checking them for their interruption and rebuking them for their pride. And He says that pride was there because they are not truly learning Scripture. Had they sought God with a humble heart, they would recognize Jesus as the Son of God prophesied in Scripture. This is how The Father drew people to Christ. By making 39 books about Him. If you look at the Scripture, this is the second time they were upset with Him. Their initial beef was Jesus proclaiming to be greater than Moses in chapter 5. And this is the origin of their pride and attitude:


37And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
38And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
39Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
41I receive not honour from men.
42But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
43I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
44How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
45Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
46For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
47But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

It's clear. It is the Old Testament that the Jews should have known and received with a humble heart that would have pointed them directly to Jesus. So that when He showed up, they could identify Him right away. But because of their pride and sin, they were not led by the testimony of the Father and not drawn to Jesus.

You are not even remotely looking at the context of verses and basing your doctrine on their blatant misuse. I can tell you have a heart for The Lord and exalting Him. But I would urge you to study the Bible with an open heart and search for its plain meaning and not just look for proof texts. God bless.

 

[Consumed]

bible says the Father reveals the Son to whom He chooses, hmmm need to look up the verse or it may be implied that its taken out of context too

 

[A-Omega]

bible says the Father reveals the Son to whom He chooses, hmmm need to look up the verse or it may be implied that its taken out of context too

I am not implying. I am stating my beliefs plainly.

 

[2knowhim]

Well, maybe ya'll are right, maybe you do have free will.

But for me personally, I know that without His Spirit, I would
be lost, And it's all Him.

I was in the first Adam, dead, and now I'm in The Last.
The first was not my choice, and the second was not my
choice either.

All though I can say I would never ever, want to go back.
His love constains me. He found me, I did not find Him first.

And to me, Free will, takes that Glory away from God and His purposes
and places it on man, that he did something to save himself.

I did'nt know I needed Him, till He showed me, and if He hadn't I would still
be in the old nature.

All Praise to Him.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well, maybe ya'll are right, maybe you do have free will.

But for me personally, I know that without His Spirit, I would
be lost, And it's all Him.

we believe the same thing. why do you think we do not?

I was in the first Adam, dead, and now I'm in The Last.
The first was not my choice, and the second was not my
choice either.

so God forced you to be in him? is that fair that God forces you to believe him, but may force your neighbor to reject him? what kind of God do we worship?

All though I can say I would never ever, want to go back.
His love constains me. He found me, I did not find Him first.

he found me to. I did not find him. I just chose to follow him. and not walk away and reject him.

And to me, Free will, takes that Glory away from God and His purposes
and places it on man, that he did something to save himself.

faith is not the work of man but the wortk of God. because we did nothing to deserve it. God says here I paid the price, and I am offering you a gift to spend eternity with me. All I did was take it in faith that it was worth taking. how can I get credit for this? I can't God gets all the credit. Just like if I bought by wife a precious gift. and gave it to here. She did not have to take it. But even if she did. how could she take credit for her gift? she did nothign to earn it, or get it. it was all of me. She may go around and in thanks show everyone. But she is not going to take credit for it. She is going to give me credit for it. She did not earn it. Unless she worked for it. then it was not a gift but a reward. Salvation is a gift not a reward. I boast in Christ. not myself.

I did'nt know I needed Him, till He showed me, and if He hadn't I would still
be in the old nature.

as would I. But paul tells us he shows everyone. thats why they have no excuse.

All Praise to Him.

This is my belief also. I can get no praise. I did not do a thing to get it. but trust him. He did ALL the work.

 

[Israel]

we believe the same thing. why do you think we do not?

so God forced you to be in him? is that fair that God forces you to believe him, but may force your neighbor to reject him? what kind of God do we worship?
he found me to. I did not find him. I just chose to follow him. and not walk away and reject him.

faith is not the work of man but the wortk of God. because we did nothing to deserve it. God says here I paid the price, and I am offering you a gift to spend eternity with me. All I did was take it in faith that it was worth taking. how can I get credit for this? I can't God gets all the credit. Just like if I bought by wife a precious gift. and gave it to here. She did not have to take it. But even if she did. how could she take credit for her gift? she did nothign to earn it, or get it. it was all of me. She may go around and in thanks show everyone. But she is not going to take credit for it. She is going to give me credit for it. She did not earn it. Unless she worked for it. then it was not a gift but a reward. Salvation is a gift not a reward. I boast in Christ. not myself.

as would I. But paul tells us he shows everyone. thats why they have no excuse.

This is my belief also. I can get no praise. I did not do a thing to get it. but trust him. He did ALL the work.

We cannot believe the same thing. How can you say that faith is a work of God and yet there will be many who will be lost eternally? Isn't your God almighty and fully able to do all His good pleasure?

Man cannot teach the nature of God without revelation. I can't come to God no matter how many churches I attend.

Most people on this site sound just like you. They talk about love and peace, then devour one another behind verses intended to show the ungodliness in EVERY MAN. Yes His wrath is revealed from heaven and guess what? You will die from it as well.

I know very bad people who died. Gangsters and killers that by your definition has no hope for salvation; all because the God you see is POWERLESS after the death of the flesh!

YOU are made in the image of the almighty God. It is YOU through which the invisible qualities of God are clearly seen. Do you see yourself eternally lost? Then forgive! This is a great power given to us by God. Please use it!

The bible says there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ. To truly be in Him, we must crucify or bury the fleshly man. How more crucified can one get however if they are literally dead and in the grave? The fleshly man with all his fleshly desires has past away! He is now in Christ and raised a NEW creature!

 

[2knowhim]

we believe the same thing. why do you think we do not?

so God forced you to be in him? is that fair that God forces you to believe him, but may force your neighbor to reject him? what kind of God do we worship?
See, we don't agree, you see it as a forced thing, but when the love of God touches the Heart of
man, he melts because he has never felt or experienced that kind of Love not here in this world.
I don't call that forced, but I do say it is from God, and that the result might as well be the same
because there's no way you could walk away from it.

You on the other hand think that you can, and this is what you call rejecting Him.
I dont' beleive that that is possible.

he found me to. I did not find him. I just chose to follow him. and not walk away and reject him.
Again you use the word reject Him, and chose to follow Him, don't you see how you say that's
something you did or not did? Many are called few are chosen, is there a difference?
Yes, very much so.

faith is not the work of man but the wortk of God. because we did nothing to deserve it. God says here I paid the price, and I am offering you a gift to spend eternity with me. All I did was take it in faith that it was worth taking. how can I get credit for this? I can't God gets all the credit. Just like if I bought by wife a precious gift. and gave it to here. She did not have to take it. But even if she did. how could she take credit for her gift? she did nothign to earn it, or get it. it was all of me. She may go around and in thanks show everyone. But she is not going to take credit for it. She is going to give me credit for it. She did not earn it. Unless she worked for it. then it was not a gift but a reward. Salvation is a gift not a reward. I boast in Christ. not myself.

This is a good alagory to use, but there it is... LOVE,... between the two you, why wouldn't she recieve it, she knows you Love her, but that Love had to be experienced first by her, from you.
Now, on the other hand the whole creation testifies of God, but does that mean that they know
Him, or has ever experience His Love towards them personally? No, Not until He chooses to Reveal that Love to them . Till then it is only Head knowledge and not Heart knowledge.
And that is what makes the difference. They are miles apart.


as would I. But paul tells us he shows everyone. thats why they have no excuse.

This is my belief also. I can get no praise. I did not do a thing to get it. but trust him. He did ALL the work.

Many are Called few are chosen, I am so sick and tired of Hearing how man can overide the Love
of God. And somehow reject His Love, I stand firm in this, that is impossible, even Nero, Hitler, and so
on will crumble in the Presence of The Love of God.

 

[jimmydiggs]

According to some, the elect, elect themselves. God sure says otherwise. Mark 13:20 is unavoidable.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We cannot believe the same thing.

that was not directed to you!

How can you say that faith is a work of God and yet there will be many who will be lost eternally? Isn't your God almighty and fully able to do all His good pleasure?

My faith is in the work of God. on the cross. My God can do all things. but he is not going to force people to chose or reject him, if he did that would make him a dictator like hitler or stalin, and not a loving father.

Man cannot teach the nature of God without revelation. I can't come to God no matter how many churches I attend.

maybe your not listening to God?

YOU are made in the image of the almighty God. It is YOU through which the invisible qualities of God are clearly seen. Do you see yourself eternally lost? Then forgive! This is a great power given to us by God. Please use it!

No, I see me eternally saved, by the blood of Christ.

The bible says there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ. To truly be in Him, we must crucify or bury the fleshly man. How more crucified can one get however if they are literally dead and in the grave? The fleshly man with all his fleshly desires has past away! He is now in Christ and raised a NEW creature!

those who are in Christ.

those dead are not in Christ. if they rejected christ while alive. where do you get this stuff??

 

[eternally-gratefull]

See, we don't agree, you see it as a forced thing, but when the love of God touches the Heart of man, he melts because he has never felt or experienced that kind of Love not here in this world.
I don't call that forced, but I do say it is from God, and that the result might as well be the same because there's no way you could walk away from it.

Tell that to the hebrews who saw the hand of God in egypt, the red sea and the mannah from heaven who rejected God. and will probably spend eternity in hell because although God touched them, they refused to see it.

You on the other hand think that you can, and this is what you call rejecting Him.
I dont' beleive that that is possible.

Israel rejected God over and over. even Judas Iscariot rejected God. and he felt the love of Christ personally!!

Again you use the word reject Him, and chose to follow Him, don't you see how you say that's something you did or not did? Many are called few are chosen, is there a difference?
Yes, very much so.

Why and how are they chosen? Scripture is clear on this. God did not randomly chose people before the foundation of the world. he chose because he knew something. What was it?

This is a good alagory to use, but there it is... LOVE,... between the two you, why wouldn't she recieve it, she knows you Love her, but that Love had to be experienced first by her, from you.

What more can one ask for when they hear the good news of the gospel? That God left his abode, became man and died for us? But that does not mean we will feel it and accept it. Some people are loved by their spouses every day, and do not feel or accept it. they still treat them like crap. Why would God be any different?

Now, on the other hand the whole creation testifies of God, but does that mean that they know Him, or has ever experience His Love towards them personally? No, Not until He chooses to Reveal that Love to them . Till then it is only Head knowledge and not Heart knowledge.

read romans 1 again. They have no excuse. Why? Because they KNEW IT, and rejected it. Rejected is a personal free will thing. If they had no choice, they have an excuse. Because God did not allow them to know. That is not what Paul tells us.

And that is what makes the difference. They are miles apart.

Yeah they are. Some of us hear. know and receive in joy. Some of us hear and know and reject because we think we know better than God.

Many are Called few are chosen, I am so sick and tired of Hearing how man can overide the Love
of God. And somehow reject His Love, I stand firm in this, that is impossible, even Nero, Hitler, and so
on will crumble in the Presence of The Love of God.

Again I take you to Israel, a nation that felt the love of God like probably no other. yet they rejected him over and over and over.

 

[serpentslayer]

'Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God'. This means that one cannot believe in the Truth until one hears it first. Makes sense
Therefore, before a person can confess Christ, they must first hear of Him: and it is the Holy Spirit which shall confirm this to the seeker, not a
man (read Acts). And since the 'Grace of God which bringeth Salvation (who is Jesus Christ) has appeared to ALL MEN, teaching us that denying
ungodliness and worldly lust we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present world', then, clearly, the LORD has been just to give all men
an understanding of Holiness, such that, none shall have an excuse for rejecting Him.

You serpents pedaling the belief that the sinner shall see Paradise is just the same Lie your daddy, That Old Sepernt, told Eve.

 

[2knowhim]

I was raised up in the Gospel, went to church when I was just a little thing
Heard of Jesus and was told what He did for me all my life, and why I had to receive Him
because I was a sinner. I read the bible, I read all kinds of stories about Jesus
and had His picture by my bedstand from probably the time I was born until much
later in life.

And none of it was REAL to me, until I was about 36 yrs. old, And He made Himself
Real to me, He manifested Himself to me, to me,... The worst sinner you could possibly think
of. And I experienced Him for myself, His Love, His Mercy and compassion.


But until that time, it made no difference to me.
So, EG, you can say what you want about Israel the nation and how they rejected God
But I can promise you, they never experienced His love, face to face, like Moses did or Joshua.
In fact they wanted someone else to talk for God in His place, they did not want to come
near to Him, that is written. And why? "Lest they die"

Exo 20:18 And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.
Exo 20:19 And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

But if you think that it is over for them because they died in that condition,
you will be wrong, Because I know, He will save them. They are in Christ,
When He was on the Cross and Cried "Father forgive them they know not what
they do" Do you actually think that The Father would not give the His Son what
He asked for? And yes, i know that the scripture declare, that they would not
have forgivness, in this age or the one to come, But that does not mean Eternity.
Because of Christ.
And not only that, but, do you think He was only talking about them in His
sight? NO, and NO, He spoke of All Mankind, Past, Present, and Future, That
Is what our Lord Accomplished on That Cross, Just because you don't see it,
Ain't no sign that it ain't so.

Christians,.........Haven't a Clue of What He did, all time Cease IN HIM,
ALL Generations CEASED IN HIM.
Do you have any Idea, of what happened when The Light of this World
went out for those 3hrs?

There are NO MORE Generations after Christ, HE Is The Last Generation.
Mat. 1:17

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I was raised up in the Gospel, went to church when I was just a little thing
Heard of Jesus and was told what He did for me all my life, and why I had to receive Him
because I was a sinner. I read the bible, I read all kinds of stories about Jesus
and had His picture by my bedstand from probably the time I was born until much
later in life.

And none of it was REAL to me, until I was about 36 yrs. old, And He made Himself
Real to me, He manifested Himself to me, to me,... The worst sinner you could possibly think
of. And I experienced Him for myself, His Love, His Mercy and compassion.


But until that time, it made no difference to me.

Or we can see it another way. Like so many people I know. It did not become real until you OPENED YOUR HEART TO HIM. When they realized that they controlling their life always fails. when they figure out what they are missing (or have a hole thta no one or nothing can fill, or whatever it takes. and many people grow up in church and never feel this. Or even more, is that when they found out everything they have been taught and shown makes sense. it was real. like a child who had a bad relationship with a parent because they thought the parent was to hard on them, yet later in life realize they are thankful their parent was that way.

God was looking for you as a child. you just did not look for him until you were older. for whatever reason

So, EG, you can say what you want about Israel the nation and how they rejected God
But I can promise you, they never experienced His love, face to face, like Moses did or Joshua.
In fact they wanted someone else to talk for God in His place, they did not want to come
near to Him, that is written. And why? "Lest they die"

so let me get this straight. The only people who could ocme to him and be saved in the OT are people that were given the ability to, and not die. Your joking right? you think Moses and jacob were the only people who felt God. How can you say seeing God part the red sea is not feeling him, or seeing his mighty power. or how about waking every morning but one and seeing your daily supply of food is not seeing and feeling Gods love for you? You have a strange understanding my friend. I can not even begin to understand why you think that way!

Exo 20:18 And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.
Exo 20:19 And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

so they understood his power. And like many, Understood their sin and they were not worthy. This is a fine begining point, however, they never trusted God, we see this later.

But if you think that it is over for them because they died in that condition,
you will be wrong, Because I know, He will save them.

Oh you do. Chapter and verse please.

They are in Christ,

How could they be in Christ when Christ when they would not even accept the God of Abraham and moses, but wanted their own Gods.

When He was on the Cross and Cried "Father forgive them they know not what
they do" Do you actually think that The Father would not give the His Son what
He asked for? And yes, i know that the scripture declare, that they would not
have forgivness, in this age or the one to come, But that does not mean Eternity.
Because of Christ.

he told them to forgive them of the sin they were commiting because he would die for that sin in a short time. Can you show me where God says he will forgive the unpardonable sin, or the sin of unbelief?

And not only that, but, do you think He was only talking about them in His
sight? NO, and NO, He spoke of All Mankind, Past, Present, and Future, That
Is what our Lord Accomplished on That Cross, Just because you don't see it,
Ain't no sign that it ain't so.

No I see things like this.

Mark 3:29
but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”

John 3:18
“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

and the verses in mark where it speaks of hell. where a fire is never quenched. Or how about in revelations whereit speaks of those who will be cast in this "lake of fire"

again. I have no clue where you get your belief, nor will I understand it!

Christians,.........Haven't a Clue of What He did, all time Cease IN HIM,
ALL Generations CEASED IN HIM.
Do you have any Idea, of what happened when The Light of this World
went out for those 3hrs?

yeah I do. He died spiritually at this time, and took the penalty of every sin ever commited but one. Rejection, non belief in him and HIS WAY.

There are NO MORE Generations after Christ, HE Is The Last Generation.

Mat. 1:17

um matt 1: 17 speaks of the genealogy of Christ. Not pf the last generation. There have been many generations since. Even Christ spoke of "many generations" which would follow him. Come on now think what your saying!

 

[2knowhim]

Why even bother, it is obvious you have no spiritual understanding
at all, what a shame.

There is such a great gulf between us, it is not possible to communicate
with you.

 

[Israel]

that was not directed to you!

But you are beloved. We are one, and she builds upon the same material I build upon.

My faith is in the work of God. on the cross. My God can do all things. but he is not going to force people to chose or reject him, if he did that would make him a dictator like hitler or stalin, and not a loving father.

Do you understand that He chose us FIRST? Once a soul is truly shown the error of his ways, will such a one then reject correction?

No, I see me eternally saved, by the blood of Christ.

You see yourself saved by the very same Christ who said what profit is there to love only the ones who love you. For even sinners do that. Why then do you see Him only saving those who love Him? Don't make Christ to be a hypocrite.

those who are in Christ.

those dead are not in Christ. if they rejected christ while alive. where do you get this stuff??

Again EG, in order to be found in Christ, YOU MUST PUT TO DEATH YOUR OLD SELF. You cannot get anymore dead than those already in the grave! Their old nature is literally dead. Their love, hate, all perished at death as THEY NOW KNOW NOTHING. Again if I were a murderer, how can I be raised a new creature with the same nature I had when I died?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But you are beloved. We are one, and she builds upon the same material I build upon.

Well in that case I disagree with both of you! But if you read that comment made to her, it was about something she said, not our whole believe system. We did agree with what she was challenging me with on that point.

Do you understand that He chose us FIRST? Once a soul is truly shown the error of his ways, will such a one then reject correction?

lets see, The people of earth rejected noah's correction from God. The jews in the wilderness rejected correction. At least two citied rejected the correction (sodom and gemmorah) The pharisees did. The jews over and over killed Gods prophets and others who followed God. And we see since the bible was completed. many still reject. Are you saying they were not truly shown the error? This would be an error in thought itself!

You see yourself saved by the very same Christ who said what profit is there to love only the ones who love you. For even sinners do that. Why then do you see Him only saving those who love Him? Don't make Christ to be a hypocrite.

Nice twist. If you reject his gift of eternal life. You are doomed. God is not going to change his mind. period! God loves all men, He offers all men the same gift. But he is not going to force someone to take it.

Again EG, in order to be found in Christ, YOU MUST PUT TO DEATH YOUR OLD SELF.

This is wrong. In order to be found "in Christ" I must be justified, this can only happen by recieving his gift of eternal life. Once I do this. I can start to learn about him and be like him (sanctification) where I can recieve temporal blessings by him, or be chastened by him when I do wrong. But that is not the same as being justified. If I want to be like him. I must give up self. But being his child doe snot mean I will be like him. not all children are like their parents.

You cannot get anymore dead than those already in the grave! Their old nature is literally dead. Their love, hate, all perished at death as THEY NOW KNOW NOTHING. Again if I were a murderer, how can I be raised a new creature with the same nature I had when I died?

When you stand in front of God. all desire to sin will be done away with. What good is it for God to give us reward if we have no clue what the reward are for? Even if they are burned and we suffer loss. They do not good if we have no clue why we lost out.

However, those who die apart from God will suffer eternal punishment. You assume we will not know anything. You assume wrong, scripture does not teach this. and you are going down a very dangerous path thinking you can do whatever and God will save you anyway. If you have not been born again in him, you will suffer with satan for all eternity.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why even bother, it is obvious you have no spiritual understanding
at all, what a shame.

There is such a great gulf between us, it is not possible to communicate
with you.

I could say the same of you, but what would it accomplish but show my arrogance? I scold your petty proud, and arrogant attitude that I have no understanding of spiritual things. You are a child and speak as a child. for only a child speaks this way!

Now if you want to agree to disagree, and not try anymore. that is fine. and would be more Christian like

that great gulf between is is the word of God. If you do not wish to discuss it, you are correct. we will get no where

 

[2knowhim]

I could say the same of you, but what would it accomplish but show my arrogance? I scold your petty proud, and arrogant attitude that I have no understanding of spiritual things. You are a child and speak as a child. for only a child speaks this way!

Now if you want to agree to disagree, and not try anymore. that is fine. and would be more Christian like

that great gulf between is is the word of God. If you do not wish to discuss it, you are correct. we will get no where

EG,

If you knew me I am really not pridefull or arrogant, but I am very aware of my
faults and one of them is patience, this is something that I am constantly in the fire
for.

But I come to this place hoping to find people who want to share the deeper things of
the word, and all I find is argueing, and disagreement on everything I post.

So what can I say. You and I speak two different languages, we understand things
so differently, that I don't think we can communicate on anything in the word.

So I will agree to disagree, and wait along with the others. Who knows maybe this
is what is meant for me to do, since I lack patience.

I am sorry,
I don't mean to come off like you discribed
May God Bless you