Who are the two witnesses in revelation

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Oct 14, 2013
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THE TWO WITNESSES: WHO ARE THEY?

THE TWO WITNESSES:
WHO ARE THEY?


In the book of Revelation chapter 11 we read in verse 3 these words,


“And I will give power unto my TWO WITNESSES, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.”


I was always taught that the two witnesses were either two of the following three people depending upon who's book I was reading. Some would say that the two witnesses were Moses and Elijah, and others have said the two witnesses were Enoch and Elijah.
Well for me I was not content in who other were saying that these two witnesses MIGHT be, so I asked the Lord who these two witnesses were and he told me to read this WHOLE passage of scripture again.
So I read all of chapter 11 again, but I did not see what the Lord wanted to show me, so he told me to read it again. So I read it again.
Finally I told the Lord that I just was not getting or understanding what he was trying to show me, then he spoke to my heart and said “Do not think of my two witnesses as two people, but rather think of the two witnesses as two groups of people.” So I read this passage again and began to see clues in the other verses as to who these two witnesses are.
The next verse in Revelation chapter 11 reads,


“These (speaking of the two witnesses) ARE the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.”


And I began to think, “WHAT TWO OLIVE TREES”. This is how the Holy Spirit teaches us the word of God. As we ask questions, read the word of God, and meditate and think upon what we read, then we receive insight or revelation as to what these verses truly mean in light of the WHOLE word of God.
Now when these words the TWO OLIVE trees popped out so to speak the Holy Spirit brought to my remembrance of what I had read about Israel being the natural olive tree and how we as Gentiles who became Christians were considered or called a wild olive tree being grafted into the natural olive tree, which represented Israel.
I could not remember what book of the Bible that I read this, so I picked up my Strong's Exhaustive Concordance and looked up the word “olive” searching for the phrase “olive tree”.
Here is what I found. The word “olive” is found 38 times in the King James version of the Bible, so I scanned down the list of passages where the word olive was found looking for the word “tree” and I found 20 references with the phase “olive tree”.
I was quite astounded that there was so many references to olive trees, and I had only remembered one such reference, so I began to look up each and every reference to see what these olive trees were.
Now I want YOU, the reader to remember to think or view the two witnesses which ARE the two olive trees as two GROUPS of people rather than just two individual people as we were previously taught. Sometimes we have to UNLEARN some things that we have come to believe as the truth before we can in fact come to the knowledge of THE TRUTH.
Now open your Bible to Romans 11:17-25 and read,


“And if some of the branches be broken off, and YOU, being a WILD OLIVE TREE, and were grafted in among them, and with them are partakers of the root and fatness of THE OLIVE TREE:
Boast not against the branches. But if you boast, you bear not the root, but the root you.
You will say then, The branches were broken off, that I may be grafted in.
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Be not high minded, but fear:
For if God spared not the NATURAL BRANCHES, take heed that he spare not you.
Behold therefore the goodness and the severity of God:eek:n which them which fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, IF you CONTINUE in his goodness: otherwise you also shall be cut off.
And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in; for God is able to graft them in again.
For if it were cut out of the OLIVE TREE which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a good OLIVE TREE; how much more shall these, which be the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?
For I would not, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to ISRAEL, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.”


I want you to see from this passage of scripture what the Lord showed to me through the Holy Spirit, and that being that the TWO OLIVE trees, which ARE the TWO WITNESSES are in fact two GROUPS of people rather than just two individual people as we were previously and falsely taught.
Please keep in mind that those who taught us wrongly did not KNOW that they were wrong, but only taught what they themselves came to believe. I am sure that they taught to us what they sincerely believed to be the truth, so do not stop considering them to be our brothers and sisters in Christ.
But please be as the men of Berea, spoken of in the book of Acts chapter 17 and verse 11, that searched the scriptures daily to see if what they were being taught was in fact the TRUTH based upon the WHOLE word of God.
The TWO GROUPS of people who are the ONLY TWO WITNESSES in all the earth who stand for the only true and wise God ARE number 1, the true believers in Christ Jesus the Son of God, otherwise know as Christians or formally known as the WILD OLIVE TREE; and number 2, the other witness standing before the one true God is ISRAEL, which is the NATURAL OLIVE TREE.
So you see we have TWO different GROUPS of people who stand for the God of the earth, and it is these TWO GROUPS who are the TWO WITNESSES spoke of in the book of Revelation.
We can see these TWO GROUPS, the Jews, who believe in Almighty God the Father, and the Christians, those who believe in Jesus, the Son of God as their savior all through the book of Revelation as well as the rest of the word of God.
Take a look at Revelation 20:4 which says,


“...and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the WITNESS of Jesus AND for the WORD of God.”


Once you come to the knowledge of the truth that the two witnesses are the Jews and the Christians, then you will begin to see subtle references all through the word of God of these two different groups of people that stand for the God of the earth.
Here in this verse we see the Christians who have the WITNESS of Jesus, and the Jews who do not have the witness for Jesus, but do have the WITNESS for the WORD of God, the Old Testament of the Bible.
Turn to revelation 15:3 and read,


“And they sang the song of Moses the servant of God AND the song of the Lamb.”


I want you to notice TWO different songs that cannot be sung by any ONE individual group of people, because they are victory songs sung by those who have been brought victory buy the one whom the song is about.
The children of Israel were brought to victory by Moses being delivered from Egypt through the Red Sea. And we as Christians are brought to victory through the blood of the Lamb. We each have our own song to sing. It will not be until the end of the 1000 year reign of Jesus that these TWO witnesses for the one true and only Almighty God will become ONE.
So again we can see two groups or two WITNESSES for the God of all the earth as being the children of Israel, the Jews, and the believers in Jesus, the Christians.
Let's look at one more verse found in Revelation that I find interesting. Open your Bible to Revelation chapter 21 and read verse 12 through 14 that talks about the New Jerusalem, the city of God.
Revelation 21:12-14.
“And had a great wall and high, and had TWELVE gates, and at the twelve gates twelve angels, and the NAMES of the TWELVE TRIBES of the children of ISRAEL...And the wall of the city had TWELVE foundations, and in them the NAMES of the TWELVE APOSTLES of the LAMB.”


The twelve foundations with the names of the twelve apostles obviously represent the church, or true believers in Christ Jesus, the Lamb of God. And the twelve gates with the names of the twelve tribes of Israel in turn signify the children of Israel, the Jews.
The Christians I will refer to as SPIRITUAL Israel and the Jews I will refer to as NATURAL Israel. Both are Israel, but yet there are two groups of people from different backgrounds. When a JEW accepts Jesus as their Messiah, then they are no longer considered to be a JEW, but rather they are called Christians.
In just casually reading the scriptures there appears on the surface to be only ONE group of people who stand for God, because God is breaking down the walls that divide us. Let me explain what I mean.
Look at Ezekiel 37:16-19 which says,


“Moreover, you son of man, take you ONE stick and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of his companions; then ANOTHER stick, and write upon it for Joseph, the stick of Ephrim, and for all the house of Israel his companion. And join them one to another into ONE stick, and they shall be ONE in your hand. And when the children of your people shall speak unto you saying, will you show us what you mean by these? Say unto them, thus says the Lord God.
Behold I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in your hand of Ephrim and the tribes of his fellows, and will put them with the stick of Judah, and make them ONE stick and they shall be ONE in my hand.”


The stick of Judah represents the church, or spiritual Israel. And the sick of Joseph or Ephrim represents the Jews, or natural Israel.
There are many more references to these two groups throughout the Old Testament but for space we will only look at a few.
Here is one found in Psalm 78:67,68,71 that says,


“...Jacob his people AND Israel his inheritance.”
Then in Psalm 149:2 we read,


“Let ISRAEL rejoice in him that made him; let the children of ZION be joyful to their King.”


Then read Jeremiah 51:35 which says,


“The violence done to me and my flesh be upon Babylon, shall the inhabitants of ZION say: my blood upon the inhabitants of Chaldean, shall JERUSALEM say.”


Hosea 1:11 says,


“Then shall the children of JUDAH AND the children of JERUSALEM be gathered together, and appoint themselves ONE head and they shall come up out of the land (the rapture or where the two witnesses are caught up to be with the Lord in the air): for great shall be the day of Jezreel (a type or shadow of Jesus).”


Now this may be getting off the subject a little, but it all ties together. Take notice of the phrase “be gathered together” and compare it with the coming of Jesus, that great and notable day of the Lord where we will all be gathered together to meet the Lord in the air and then taken to the place called Armageddon to execute vengeance upon the ungodly. Please read the “SECOND COMING OF JESUS” for a deeper understanding of this subject of the faithful believers being gathered together to meet our Lord in the air to escape the wrath of God at our Lord's coming.
The phrase “come up out of the land” can be compared to “caught up together” at the time of the rapture of the church. Also the phrase “great shall be the day of Jezreel” can be compared to “the great and notable day of the Lord” which refers to the second coming of Jesus.
Let's continue with some other examples of the two groups of people or TWO WITNESSES found in the Bible.
Joel 2:32 says this,


“And it shall come to pass that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in MOUNT ZION AND in JERUSALEM shall be deliverance.”


Zephaniah 3:10 reads,


“In that day, says the Lord of host, shall you call every man his neighbor under the VINE AND the FIG TREE.”


The Bible refers to the fig tree as Israel, natural Israel , the Jews, and refers to the vine as the church, the body of believers in Jesus.


Now let us return to the book of Revelation chapter 11 now that you have seen the two different groups of people as being the TWO WITNESSES. Read Revelation 11:11,12, which I believe is a type or example of the rapture or being caught up to heaven. Take note of the similarities.


“And after three and a half days the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet: and great fear came upon all them which saw them. And they heard a voice from heaven saying unto them, COME UP HITHER, and they ascended up to heaven in a cloud: and their enemies beheld them.”


The bodies of these TWO WITNESSES laid in the streets for three and a half days and there was none to bury them. Therefore they are dead in Christ, because they believed and stood for God. They are resurrected and come to life by the Spirit of God. They hear a voice from heaven. They ascend up to heaven in a cloud. And their enemies beheld them.
Let's begin by looking at the dead bodies lying in the streets. Look at Psalm 79:2,3 which says,


“The dead bodies of YOUR SERVANTS have been given unto the fowls of heaven, the flesh of YOUR SAINTS unto the beast of the earth. Their blood have they like water shed round about Jerusalem: and there was none to bury them.”


Notice again that there are TWO groups of people just like the Holy Spirit told me and now I am telling you. Here in this verse we see God's SERVANTS as one WITNESS for Almighty God and then we see God's SAINTS as the other witness for Almighty God and his Son Jesus. TWO WITNESSES who were slain and shed their blood for believing in the one true and only Almighty God, and are now lying dead in the streets all around Jerusalem.
Now please notice that just two individuals bodies cannot be lying in the street ALL AROUND Jerusalem, nor will the spilling of the blood of just two individuals be likened to “their blood shed like water round about Jerusalem”. This is a lot of blood being spoken of in this verse which is certainly not the description of just two individuals as we have previously been taught by those that teach the PRE-tribulation point of view.
Now compare this verse we just read in Psalm chapter 79 with Revelation 11:9 where we are told about the TWO WITNESSES.


“And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three and a half days, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.”


Both passages of scripture speak of TWO WITNESSES of God and both verses speak of their bodies being left on the ground and NOT buried. However, from the verse in Revelation ALONE apart from the WHOLE word of God their has come the INTERPRETATION that these TWO WITNESSES are just two individuals being either Moses and Elijah or Enoch and Elijah, which is just SPECULATION at best.
But in light of the WHOLE word of God we can clearly see that the TWO WITNESSES are in fact two GROUPS of people, namely the church, spiritual Israel, coming from the wild olive tree, and the Jews, natural Israel being the natural olive tree.
Let's look at Revelation 11:3 that says,


“I will GIVE power unto my two witnesses...”


Notice that the word says, “I will GIVE power unto my two witnesses”, and not “I will SEND two witnesses who will have power.”
You see the TWO WITNESSES are already here in the earth. The church and the Jews are already witnessing for God. Some Christian believers already have the fullness of the Holy Spirit dwelling in them and they are doing the works that Jesus did when he was in the earth as the Son of man, born of a women. Please read the study entitled “JESUS THE SON OF MAN” and "JESUS THE CHRIST".
But the church as a whole is not walking in the POWER of the Spirit of God which God has intended us to walk.
Let's begin with Luke 24:49,49,


“And you are WITNESSES of these things. And behold, I send the PROMISE of my Father upon you: tarry you in the city of Jerusalem, until you be endued with (or given) POWER from on high.”


T
 
Jul 26, 2013
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The two witnessess we have are true and false. Clean and unclean. Circumcised and uncircumcised. They both witness to us from the grave the consequences of building upon what God has already destroyed.
 
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Saved_Forever

Guest
#3
To answer your second part of the question, what are the candlesticks?

Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

So, therefore, simply speaking, one of your witnesses is the Jews and the other one is the church (Gentile church) since candlesticks are referred to as being a church.
 

mystdancer50

Senior Member
Feb 26, 2012
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I think that the two witnesses are angels, just based on the things said about them, but I honestly don't know. :)
 
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Saved_Forever

Guest
#5
I think that the two witnesses are angels, just based on the things said about them, but I honestly don't know. :)
Read the passage. It spells it out to you.

Rev 11:4
These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

It tells you that these two witnesses are symbolized by these two words. I gave the second meaning to it and the OP gave the first.

The passage could have said this instead.

Rev 11:4
These are the Jewish people, and the Gentile church standing before the God of the earth.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#6
John 5:39 KJV
(39) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

G3140
μαρτυρέω
martureō
Thayer Definition:
1)
to be a witness, to bear witness, i.e. to affirm that one has seen or heard or experienced something, or that he knows it because taught by divine revelation or inspiration
1a) to give (not to keep back) testimony
1b) to utter honourable testimony, give a good report
1c) conjure, implore
Part of Speech: verb

 
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T

Therapon

Guest
#7
To answer your second part of the question, what are the candlesticks?

Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

So, therefore, simply speaking, one of your witnesses is the Jews and the other one is the church (Gentile church) since candlesticks are referred to as being a church.
You are absolutely correct, but you have strengthened your identification by including the cultivated and wild olive trees of Romans 11 . . .

Romans 11:24-25 “For if thou (the Gentile church) wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree (the Jewish people): how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.”

So the two witnesses of Revelation 11 are indeed the Jewish people of the Christian era and the Gentile church.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#8
You are absolutely correct, but you have strengthened your identification by including the cultivated and wild olive trees of Romans 11 . . .

Romans 11:24-25 “For if thou (the Gentile church) wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree (the Jewish people): how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.”

So the two witnesses of Revelation 11 are indeed the Jewish people of the Christian era and the Gentile church.
uh....why do the natural branches have to be grafted (back) into their own tree (if they continue not in unbelief) if they are supposedly witnesses just as they are?:rolleyes:

and: "For if thou (the Gentile church) wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature..."

why add Gentile Church? it doesn't say Gentile Church. it's referring to individual gentiles grafted from the wild (unbelieving gentile) tree...INTO the natural tree...which ONLY has believing branches on it believing jews and believing gentiles.

there's only ONE TREE.
all believers.

the natural unbelievers were/are cut off. the wild unbelievers are never grafted over.

one tree ellis, not 2.
 
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Feb 17, 2010
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If the spirits of the prophets are subjected to the prohets, why can't these two witnesses that will prophecy in the city called spiritually SODOM AND EGYPT... EN OF GOD


There is jus too many witness about the two men to be confused... They are two HOLY MEN OF GOD (2 peter 1:21) like the old prophets, MOVED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT...

But also notice their prohecy will be in front of the GOD OF THE EARTH, and when they leave the erthquicke will flatten some people and they will give glory to the GOD OF HEAVEN.

Nope they are just two HOLY MEN (Witnesses/prophets), with the spirits of the prophets subjected to them.

And what words will these two utter? Are there prophetic words written in the Word of God?


Waht is imprtant... they will wear sackcloth. They will be murdered, and displayed on the STREET. People will send eachother presents of gladness for their death. IF a MAN tries to hurt them he will be devouered by fire... WOW! Do you think these tow will do these things? If it were churched or two goups, there will be more than two bodies, and it already starts to look wrong then... But two displayed would already be weird in this world...


Imagine the TV NEWS wit htwo DEAD BODIES for THREE days in a GREAT MODERN CITY... where MANY GAY people live... SODOM is GAYS... EGYPT is RICHES... So it would be a GAY WEALTHY CITY... WOW!
 
Jul 25, 2013
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We can see these TWO GROUPS, the Jews, who believe in Almighty God the Father, and the Christians, those who believe in Jesus, the Son of God as their savior all through the book of Revelation as well as the rest of the word of God./QUOTE Isdaniel

What I see is Jesus is the true vine and some unchristian Jews got slashed off the vine while the rest still attatched are the Christian Jews along with the Christian Gentiles who in place of the slashed were grafted in which makes up the whole vine otherwise known as the Church of Israel. So you have three groups of peoples, the unbelieving Jews, the believing Jews, and the believing Gentiles.

Then you turn around and say:

Once you come to the knowledge of the truth that the two witnesses are the Jews and the Christians, then you will begin to see subtle references all through the word of God of these two different groups of people that stand for the God of the earth.
Here in this verse we see the Christians who have the WITNESS of Jesus, and the Jews who do not have the witness for Jesus, but do have the WITNESS for the WORD of God, the Old Testament of the Bible.
Turn to revelation 15:3 and read,


“And they sang the song of Moses the servant of God AND the song of the Lamb.” /QUOTE Isdaniel

The unbelieving Jews and the believing Jews both have the old testament song of Moses but the believing Jews also have the NT song of the Lamb along with the Gentiles. So we still have two Olive Trees but three groups of peoples not to mention the unbelieving Gentiles. So who gets riped out of an Olive Tree as you keep mentioning only two groups of peoples? Something isn't adding up here for me maybe you can clairify?
 
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nathan3

Guest
#11
Moses and Elijah Because of the miracles performed , during the time of Antichrist II Thess 2, etc. And the mount of transfiguration with Christ Luke 9:30. They can't be two people on earth now. If you read more into this in the bible you'll see they're not here yet.
 
Jul 25, 2013
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Moses and Elijah Because of the miracles performed , during the time of Antichrist II Thess 2, etc. And the mount of transfiguration with Christ Luke 9:30. They can't be two people on earth now. If you read more into this in the bible you'll see they're not here yet.
Just wondering if you know, I don't, Did Moses where sack cloth cause Elijah and John the baptist did.
 
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nathan3

Guest
#13
Just wondering if you know, I don't, Did Moses where sack cloth cause Elijah and John the baptist did.
what they wore in the past does not diminish one bit all the scriptures I posted. I don't think its important.
 
Jul 25, 2013
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what they wore in the past does not diminish one bit all the scriptures I posted. I don't think its important.
If it wasn't important I wouldn't have asked, I didn't ask if it was important. Kindly read the question just for what it is and if you don't know the answer, then that's all you had to explain, but please don't try to tell me what's important or not, I'll be the judge of that thankyou.
 
Jul 25, 2013
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That's right they wore camels hair not sack cloths, never mind Nathan3, thanks anyway.
 
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nathan3

Guest
#16
That's right they wore camels hair not sack cloths, never mind Nathan3, thanks anyway.
I'm trying to be honest and not beat around the bush. We should not have to be walking on thin ice to have a conversation. If what they wore in my opinion is that, its not vitally important to understand the scriptures is offensive to you, then why even engage the forums ? You should know by now everyone has opinions about these things. I gave my opinion , but I could still take about it, and so can you. What they wore is not important to me; and the focus should be on their actions and where and when they are.
 
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Jul 25, 2013
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I'm trying to be honest and not beat around the bush. We should not have to be walking on thin ice to have a conversation. If what they wore in my opinion is that, its not vitally important to understand the scriptures is offensive to you, then why even engage the forums ? You should know by now everyone has opinions about these things. I gave my opinion , but I could still take about it, and so can you. What they wore is not important to me; and the focus should be on their actions and where and when they are.
That's fine Nathan3 but the focus should be on scripture and all of it as the focus not part of it. Like I said, I didn't ask if it was an important focus of yours, I simply asked for an answer to the question I had and what you gave had nothing to do with what I asked. Which tells me you didn't comprehend the question. Because if I'm asking about apples, you really shouldn't be answering about oranges right? What you are focusing on is fine why wouldn't it be, but to tell me what I should be focusing on is basically telling me what and how I think isn't important enough to answer properly and I don't think that is right,...but that again is only my opinion. Anyway, I figured it out and I did say thanks anyway.
 
Jul 25, 2013
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#18
Moses and Elijah Because of the miracles performed , during the time of Antichrist II Thess 2, etc. And the mount of transfiguration with Christ Luke 9:30. They can't be two people on earth now. If you read more into this in the bible you'll see they're not here yet.
And what on earth does 2 Thess 2:... have to do with the two witnesses anyway?
 
N

nathan3

Guest
#19
Did Moses ware sack cloth cause Elijah and John the baptist did.
Revelation 11:3 ( sackcloth )

Strong's Greek Dictionary -

άκκος

sakkos

sak'-kos

Of Hebrew origin [ H8242 ]; sack {cloth} that {is} mohair (the material or garments made of {it} worn as a sign of grief): - sackcloth...

(( From ;the Oxford English Dictionary - mohair

the hair of the angora goat.
a yarn or fabric made from mohair, typically mixed with wool: [as modifier]:a mohair sweater

Origin:

late 16th century: from Arabic muḵayyar 'cloth made of goat's hair' (literally 'choice, select'). The change in ending was due to association with hair )))

[ H8242 ];

שׂק

ώaq

sak

From H8264 ; properly a mesh (as allowing a liquid to run {through}) that {is} coarse loose cloth or sacking (used in mourning and for bagging); hence a bag (for {grain} etc.): - sack ({-cloth} -clothes).


As far as what Moses wore in the other scriptures. I'm sure he wore according to what God told him to and some things in the law relating to that . Before In Egypt, I'm sure he was wearing the style of clothing of that area and people he was living with.
 
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nathan3

Guest
#20
And what on earth does 2 Thess 2:... have to do with the two witnesses anyway?
If they are in sackcloth, that should be a clue. Its not a time for joy necessarily ( Although Christ will be there 5 months after ) .Because the people are all deceived by Satan performing those miracles, read II thess 2.. That is when the two Witnesses will be here. During the time of II Thess 2. They will be speaking against his lies and performing those signs that follow them as its written In Revelation 11. etc. The people of all the world, rejoice, because they are killed, thinking they were from Satan, if anything. But 3 , 1/2 days later the two witnesses rise back to life, The True Christ arrives. and Great fear grips everyone. because they know then now, that they had been deceived and where taking part and worshiping Satan himself.
 
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