Who is the first and second beast? (1 from sea, 1 from earth)

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Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
3,617
771
113
#61
The false prophet is the Man of Sin. The Man of Sin creates an idol in the image of the beast which is the spirit of the kingdom. He will not be the pope, nor will he be the catholics. The Man of Sin will not regard any gods, and he exalts a god that his fathers did not know, so it cannot be any religion that has existed so far in history.
I respectfully disagree. But thank you for the discussion.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
3,617
771
113
#62
The false prophet is the Man of Sin. The Man of Sin creates an idol in the image of the beast which is the spirit of the kingdom. He will not be the pope, nor will he be the catholics. The Man of Sin will not regard any gods, and he exalts a god that his fathers did not know, so it cannot be any religion that has existed so far in history.
Note: The little horn is the antichrist. (Dan. 7:7-8) It is he that makes war against the saints as referenced in Daniel. (Daniel 7:19-22) The 2nd beast (false prophet) causes those who dwell on the earth to worship the antichrist. (Revelation 13:11-12)
 
Jul 2, 2022
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#63
The last Johannine work answers itself as both faith and a masterpiece (work) of divine nature-

"Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that the antichrist was coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. Thus we know this is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not really of our number" Johannine letter

It remains a great mystery yet it is accessible to those who do not put gifts/works in conflict with faith as the challenges of those works requires the experience known to the Johannine community and many of the individual followers over the centuries to our era.

I can help while remaining true to the purpose of the last work in context of the Johannine Word and its letters -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chi_Rho

 
Jan 12, 2022
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#64
Note: The little horn is the antichrist. (Dan. 7:7-8) It is he that makes war against the saints as referenced in Daniel. (Daniel 7:19-22) The 2nd beast (false prophet) causes those who dwell on the earth to worship the antichrist. (Revelation 13:11-12)
Correct the little horn is indeed the one the pop culture calls the Antichrist", meaning the Man of Sin in Daniel 11. He is the same that institutes the abomination of desolation which means he is the same as that one called the false prophet, the second beast of Revelation 13. Where you are confused is you think there are two different men that are that Man of Sin, but it is not so, they are one and the same. The King of the North of Daniel 11 is the same as the little horn of the fourth beast of Daniel 7 (for the horns are the kings and the beast is a kingdom) and is the same as the beast that is the false prophet that has the horns of a lamb but speaks as the dragon in Revelation 13.

The nuance but also giveaway in Revelation 13 is that idol the false prophet makes, popularly called the abomination of desolation. This is a highly significant detail. The first clue is it connects the Man of Sin in Daniel 11 that performs the same action positively to be the same as the False Prophet of Revelation 13. Secondly, because the idol itself will be made in the image of the spirit of the beast that John sees rise up in Revelation 13 that is the same in appearance and description to the fourth beast of Daniel 7 we know it is both a spirit and is representative of a kingdom, the last one at that.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
3,617
771
113
#65
Correct the little horn is indeed the one the pop culture calls the Antichrist", meaning the Man of Sin in Daniel 11. He is the same that institutes the abomination of desolation which means he is the same as that one called the false prophet, the second beast of Revelation 13. Where you are confused is you think there are two different men that are that Man of Sin, but it is not so, they are one and the same. The King of the North of Daniel 11 is the same as the little horn of the fourth beast of Daniel 7 (for the horns are the kings and the beast is a kingdom) and is the same as the beast that is the false prophet that has the horns of a lamb but speaks as the dragon in Revelation 13.

The nuance but also giveaway in Revelation 13 is that idol the false prophet makes, popularly called the abomination of desolation. This is a highly significant detail. The first clue is it connects the Man of Sin in Daniel 11 that performs the same action positively to be the same as the False Prophet of Revelation 13. Secondly, because the idol itself will be made in the image of the spirit of the beast that John sees rise up in Revelation 13 that is the same in appearance and description to the fourth beast of Daniel 7 we know it is both a spirit and is representative of a kingdom, the last one at that.
Take notice that the beast referred to as an individual is cast into the lake of fire along with the false prophet. The second beast (false prophet) prompts everyone to worship and take the mark of the first beast.

Also, Rev. 16:13 references 3 individual entities; dragon (Satan), antichrist, false prophet.

Lastly, the devil/Satan is cast into the lake of fire where the beast (antichrist) and false prophet (religious leader) are.



Rev 19:19-20
"And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Rev 16:13
And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

Rev 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
 
Jun 20, 2022
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#66
some claim the 10 Nations are ancient Nations. only place in Scripture i find 10 ancient Nations coming against God is in Psalms 83.

2 God, do not keep silent. Do not hold Your peace, O God. Do not be still.
3 For look, Your enemies make an uproar. Those who hate You lift up their head.
4 They make a shrewd plot against Your people, conspiring against Your treasured ones.
5 “Come,” they say, “let’s wipe them out as a nation! Let Israel’s name be remembered no more!”
6 For with one mind they plot together. Against You do they make a covenant.
7 The tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites, Moab and the Hagrites,
8 Gebal, Ammon and Amalek, Philistia with the inhabitants of Tyre,
9 even Assyria
has joined them, becoming a strong arm for Lot’s sons.

could these be the 10 Nations of the first Beast?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,551
1,317
113
#67
1 john 2

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Went out from Christian

Not Muslim
It may catholic
 
Jan 12, 2022
798
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#68
Take notice that the beast referred to as an individual is cast into the lake of fire along with the false prophet. The second beast (false prophet) prompts everyone to worship and take the mark of the first beast.

Also, Rev. 16:13 references 3 individual entities; dragon (Satan), antichrist, false prophet.

Lastly, the devil/Satan is cast into the lake of fire where the beast (antichrist) and false prophet (religious leader) are.



Rev 19:19-20
"And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Rev 16:13
And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

Rev 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Well the Beast is the spirit which they make an idol in the appearance of. It is their kingdom, but it is also a spirit. Revelation 13:1-9 describes this spirit, the same spirit which Daniel saw in chapter 7. Then take notice the next portion of Revelation 13 is about the Man of Sin, who is the same king in Daniel 11 that creates the abomination of desolation. Take notice of verses 14 and 15, what the Man of Sin does is he creates the abomination of desolation in the image of the first beast, which is the spirit of the kingdom, and causes it to speak. This is then why in Revelation 16 the Three Lies proceed from the mouths of Satan, the Man of Sin, and the Beast.
 
S

Serling

Guest
#69
I have heard and read many say that the beast was NERO, but Nero did not rule for 42 months, he ruled for over a decade. So I don't believe it is Nero.
Nero did, indeed, reign from 54 AD to 68 AD, but it's important not to conflate the reign of the man with the war he prosecuted against Judea. The reference to 42 months is a reference to how long the war would last, not how long Nero's reign would last.

The beast from the sea is Rome. The beast from the earth is Nero.

https://www.agapebiblestudy.com/charts/Gemetria and the Number of the Beast 666.htm
 

Dirtman

Active member
Jul 19, 2022
376
117
43
#70
I have heard and read many say that the beast was NERO, but Nero did not rule for 42 months, he ruled for over a decade. So I don't believe it is Nero.

I have heard some say its the papacy, the Pope, but then it would have to somehow account for the fact that there are two beasts, first one is wounded, and then the second one makes everyone worship the first beast.


I am not making this thread to tell everyone what is what, it is my humble request we would all shoot ideas and consider each perspective.

I would also like to hear what does the phrases "From the Sea" and "From the earth" mean, why are these beasts from different places? I take the sea to be symbolic of multitude of peoples as elsewhere in revelation?

Bonus question: What is the number of a man, 666, or do we just not know it yet?
Eschatology isn't my strong suit.
However I think the injured beast is Satan himself. His head bruised by the Jesus; see what God said to Adam and Eve about the serpent. And the second causes people to worship him. Who is the second? Good question.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
43,402
18,031
113
#71
The "sea" isn't necessarily the gentile nations either. It represents the Mediterranean
and the nations in the general area around it, including Israel.
Then the angel said to me, “The waters you saw, where the prostitute
sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages." Revelation 17:15
 

Dirtman

Active member
Jul 19, 2022
376
117
43
#72
The pope certainly attempts to place himself on the seat of Christ, and this most recent one has supported this modern idea of wokeism