Whom Did Christ Die For?

[Mem]

The world, and whosoever in it can be saved through faith in Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 2: 14Now since the children have flesh and blood, He too shared in their humanity, so that by His death He might destroy him who holds the power of death, that is, the devil, 15and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.
16For surely it is not the angels He helps, but the descendants of Abraham.

Galatians 3:
Sons through Faith in Christ

26You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.

Why did Abraham leave the land of the Chaldeans even though he received no part of the inheritance promised to him and his descendants, not even get a foot of ground? Faith.

God gave Abraham promises, and Abraham supposed God to be faithful. Nowhere does scripture claim that God gave Abraham faith to believe Him. However, God proved to be faithful to keep His word, and Abraham is now proven righteous in believing it.

 

[brightfame52]

God’s Gospel is not heresy and I would never think or utter such blasphemy. You’re views are heresy.

Well you just did. The Doctrine of Limited Atonement is a Gospel Truth ! It tells us exactly who Christ died for, and what it accomplished for them.

 

[brightfame52]

The world, and whosoever in it can be saved through faith in Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 2: 14Now since the children have flesh and blood, He too shared in their humanity, so that by His death He might destroy him who holds the power of death, that is, the devil, 15and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.
16For surely it is not the angels He helps, but the descendants of Abraham.

Galatians 3:
Sons through Faith in Christ

26You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.

Why did Abraham leave the land of the Chaldeans even though he received no part of the inheritance promised to him and his descendants, not even get a foot of ground? Faith.

God gave Abraham promises, and Abraham supposed God to be faithful. Nowhere does scripture claim that God gave Abraham faith to believe Him. However, God proved to be faithful to keep His word, and Abraham is now proven righteous in believing it.

John 3:16 doesnt say God Loved every individual, nor that Christ died for every indvidual, people who are deceived read those things into the verse. Heb 2:16 tells us who Christ specifically died for, a specific people. What does it say ? You posted it and probably dont understand it, Im sure you dont understand it.

 

[Mem]

Well you just did. The Doctrine of Limited Atonement is a Gospel Truth ! It tells us exactly who Christ died for, and what it accomplished for them.

John 3:16 doesnt say God Loved every individual, nor that Christ died for every indvidual, people who are deceived read those things into the verse. Heb 2:16 tells us who Christ specifically died for, a specific people. What does it say ? You posted it and probably dont understand it, Im sure you dont understand it.

Limited election may be valid, as it is according to faith, but limited atonement limits the scope of God's love. Apparently, you don't understand God's love.

 

[brightfame52]

Limited election may be valid, as it is according to faith, but limited atonement limits the scope of God's love. Apparently, you don't understand God's love.

Oh No Limited Atonement is a Gospel Truth, and so is Gods Love is restricted to the elect, He doesnt Love every individual Rom 9:13

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Now, everyone who comes to believe in the True Christ, thats who God Loved, thats who Christ died for. If a person never comes to believe on the True Christ, not the christ of arminianism, thats who God did not Love and who Christ didn't die for. You only get to believe in Christ if He died for you.

 

[Mem]

Oh No Limited Atonement is a Gospel Truth, and so is Gods Love is restricted to the elect, He doesnt Love every individual Rom 9:13

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Now, everyone who comes to believe in the True Christ, thats who God Loved, thats who Christ died for. If a person never comes to believe on the True Christ, not the christ of arminianism, thats who God did not Love and who Christ didn't die for. You only get to believe in Christ if He died for you.

Before either of them did anything good or bad, God knew them while still in the womb.

God still gave Esau blessings. Indeed, I would venture that God has even rendered death as a blessing, such as his decision to prevent Adam and Eve from eating of the tree of life, so that they should not live forever in a fallen state.

 

[brightfame52]

Before either of them did anything good or bad, God knew them while still in the womb.

God still gave Esau blessings. Indeed, I would venture that God has even rendered death as a blessing, such as his decision to prevent Adam and Eve from eating of the tree of life, so that they should not live forever in a fallen state.

God didnt Love Esau, but He Loved Jacob, so God doesnt Love all individuals, and scripture never said He did. Thats a false premise instigated by the devil.

 

[Snacks]

GOD IS LOVE
GOD IS ALL KNOWING
GOD IS ALL POWERFUL . . .




but has limited atonement.

 

[Magenta]

Like I stated world in Jn 3:16 does mean world, just not every individual in the world, you would know this if you have studied the word before in its scripture usage.

Jesus Christ shed His righteous blood for every single person who ever has, ever is, or ever will live on
this Earth and in this world. His sacrifice is sufficient to cover every single sin that ever has been committed,
ever is being committed, or ever will be committed (aside from blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, of course ),
but efficacious only for those who believe, for without faith, it is impossible to please God

Some say we are saved aside from faith, but that is not what Scripture teaches at all.

 

[brightfame52]

mageneta

Jesus Christ shed His righteous blood for every single person who ever has, ever is, or ever will live on
this Earth and in this world.

Not true and never found in scripture ! If thats what you believe my friend, you believe a lie !

 

[Magenta]

mageneta

Not true and never found in scripture ! If thats what you believe my friend, you believe a lie !

Only called a lie by those who do not believe what Scripture explicitly states

1 John 2:2
He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he
might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,

John 3:16-17
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Hebrews 10:12
But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God,

2 Corinthians 5:15
And he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

1 Timothy 2:6
Who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

 

[brightfame52]

Only called a lie by those who do not believe what Scripture explicitly states

1 John 2:2
He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he
might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,

John 3:16-17
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Hebrews 10:12
But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God,

2 Corinthians 5:15
And he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

1 Timothy 2:6
Who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

Okay Not one of those scriptures say God Loved every individual in the world, nor Christ died for every individual in the world.

 

[Magenta]

Okay Not one of those scriptures say God Loved every individual in the world, nor Christ died for every individual in the world.

Where did I say anything about love? Oh, Scripture does, yes. God so loved the world...

But you read it as, God loved only those He chose. While Scripture says, Jesus suffered for our sins (not the sins
of the elect), gave Himself as a ransom for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, the sins of the whole world.

You change word meanings at whim to suit your preconceived ideas

 

[awelight]

I’m giving you definitive proof that Calvinism is garbage. There is no possible way you could take the aforementioned verses and correctly rationalize that God creates some people to be destined for destruction. God is love, and that’s not love, it’s evil.

Look at John 10.9, if anyone enters by Me, he will be saved. It doesn’t say when those I have called enter by me, it says if anyone enters by me, thus declaring anyone and everyone has the opportunity to do so.

The verse you quoted out of context, John 10:9, is clarified in these verses:

John 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep.
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
John 10:28 and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand.
John 10:29 My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

Sections of these verses which are in Orange, is used negatively by the Lord toward the questioners and contrasted with sections in RED, which emphasize the pronoun: THEM. Therefore, two distinct groups are in view. Those that the Father gave to Christ and those He did not.

If you believe this is the improper interpretation, (Although these verses need no interpretation, they are quite clear as to there meaning), please give your interpretation. That's all you have to do - quite simple.

 

[awelight]

Is it really worth the time and effort, not likely ....but here is the correct understanding of the verses you posted.

Sheep ≠ Elect
Sheep = Follower

Throughout the book of John the point that Jesus is making is that you do not follow me because you do not follow my Father who sent me.

John 8: 42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me.


Jesus is not stating >>>>> I didn't die for you, you cannot believe because I did not choose you.

Are you now going to accuse me of open theism or something?

You stated:

"Jesus is not stating >>>>> I didn't die for you, you cannot believe because I did not choose you."

But how does that idea fit into the following verses? One I didn't die for you -

John 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.

You said "sheep = Elect". On this I agree. Are not His "Sheep" a particular group being contrasted against the whole of the fold? Therefore, where does Jesus say He lays down His life for the fold, within this context?

Two, you cannot believe because you are not my sheep or if you prefer - Elect? Answered within the context:

John 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep.

The Lord goes onto explain:

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Why exactly is this the case? Answer:

John 10:29 My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

Divine commentary on the above verse and subject:

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day.

Questions?

 

[soberxp]

So this has become the question in another thread. Did Christ die for only the elect or die He die for all. Here are the two views;


1. Limited atonement, sometimes called particular redemption, is based on the doctrine of election or predestination.

Since only the elect of God will be saved, the reasoning goes, Jesus must have died only for them. Otherwise, Jesus’ death “failed” those who are not elect. If Jesus died for everyone, then hell will be full of people for whom Jesus died—was His atonement insufficient? If Jesus died only for the elect, then His atonement perfectly accomplished its goal. Every person for whom Jesus died will be in heaven.




2. Unlimited atonement, on the other hand, says that Jesus died for everyone but that only those who respond in faith will reap the benefits of His sacrifice. In other words, Jesus’ death was sufficient for all, but only effectual for some (those who have faith). If Jesus did not die for everyone, the reasoning goes, then the offer of salvation is empty, because the non-elect cannot be saved.


I find this a very interesting question. I am digging deeper to fully explain what I believe and why. Does anyone else care to take a crack at it. Please use Scripture in your answer where possible.

I was confused about this question, too, until Jesus revealed the answer to me, but I can't tell you the answer because it would cause unnecessary trouble.

The Gospel of John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Romans 10:10
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

1 Corinthians 10:10
Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.

Hebrews 10:10
By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

 

[MessengerofTruth]

You calling Gods Gospel Heresy friend, not good, may God grant you repentance if its His will !

Please explain your understanding of 1Jn. 2:1-2.

"1.) ...And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2.) And He is the propitiation for our sins; and not for our sins only, but for the sins of the whole world."

 

[Cameron143]

Please explain your understanding of 1Jn. 2:1-2.

"1.) ...And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2.) And He is the propitiation for our sins; and not for our sins only, but for the sins of the whole world."

That's an interesting choice of verses.

If any man sin...who is any man? Is that to be understood as literally any man? Or any man in Christ?

 

[MessengerofTruth]

That's an interesting choice of verses.

If any man sin...who is any man? Is that to be understood as literally any man? Or any man in Christ?

Paul seems to be addressing his children in the LORD, and referring to "our sins", but then seems to contrast that with "But also" (the sins of the Whole World) in vs.2

 

[Cameron143]

Paul seems to be addressing his children in the LORD, and referring to "our sins", but then seems to contrast that with "But also" (the sins of the Whole World) in vs.2

Right. What I found interesting is that these verses highlight the distinctions being made concerning who is actually being considered in various other verses.

Verses 1 is no doubt a reference to my little children referred to earlier...so saved people. But verse 2 could refer to all mankind or a general reference that forgiveness is available to those who have asked because God has accepted Christ's sacrifice as a propitiation.