Why are both Jesus and lucifer referred to as the morning star,

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de-emerald

Well-known member
May 8, 2021
1,207
485
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#1
Isaiah 14:12
12 How you have fallen from heaven,
morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!

This above passage says lucifer is the morning star

“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star” (Revelation 22:16).

This above passage says Jesus is the morning star

Another couple of questions i have for this thread is are the stars in the sky at night also angels and is Jesus a star in the sky at night the heavens.


4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born.


There seems to be indication above that the fallen angels of this world where stars in the sky at night. but theres also something else going on with this scripture,

Who is the woman who was about to give birth ?

Last question and is our sun an angel of some sort, because our sun is a star also.

Revelation 19:17
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
19,033
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#2
I have seen how the sons of God are referred to as the morning star. I realize we think in terms of there being just one, but this is not always true, not even in astrophysics.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
31,566
10,550
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#3
Isaiah 14:12
12 How you have fallen from heaven,
morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!

This above passage says lucifer is the morning star

“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star” (Revelation 22:16).

This above passage says Jesus is the morning star

Another couple of questions i have for this thread is are the stars in the sky at night also angels and is Jesus a star in the sky at night the heavens.


4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born.


There seems to be indication above that the fallen angels of this world where stars in the sky at night. but theres also something else going on with this scripture,

Who is the woman who was about to give birth ?

Last question and is our sun an angel of some sort, because our sun is a star also.

Revelation 19:17
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
Stars are used as a metaphor or symbol usually referring to angels in scripture. That doesn't mean actual stars are angels. In Genesis it says 'He made the stars' - not talking about angelic beings.

The morning star usually means that planet Venus because it is very bright and usually seen near the horizon in the morning. But here it's being used as a symbol, not referring to the planet. It's a 'title' - stripped from Satan and given to Christ. The bright light that heralds the dawn
 

Tinkerbell725

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2014
4,151
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Philippines Age 40
#4
Isaiah 14:12
12 How you have fallen from heaven,
morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!

This above passage says lucifer is the morning star

“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star” (Revelation 22:16).

This above passage says Jesus is the morning star

Another couple of questions i have for this thread is are the stars in the sky at night also angels and is Jesus a star in the sky at night the heavens.


4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born.


There seems to be indication above that the fallen angels of this world where stars in the sky at night. but theres also something else going on with this scripture,

Who is the woman who was about to give birth ?

Last question and is our sun an angel of some sort, because our sun is a star also.

Revelation 19:17
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
Isaiah 14:12 KJV

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!




No mention of morning star in Isaiah in KJV. Lucifer is the falling star but Jesus is the bright morning star.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
1,288
867
113
#6
Isaiah 14:12
12 How you have fallen from heaven,
morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!

This above passage says lucifer is the morning star

“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star” (Revelation 22:16).

This above passage says Jesus is the morning star

Another couple of questions i have for this thread is are the stars in the sky at night also angels and is Jesus a star in the sky at night the heavens.


4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born.


There seems to be indication above that the fallen angels of this world where stars in the sky at night. but theres also something else going on with this scripture,

Who is the woman who was about to give birth ?

Last question and is our sun an angel of some sort, because our sun is a star also.

Revelation 19:17
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
My understanding is that there was a creation prior to Adam and Eve. It is acceptable to translate "was", "became" in Genesis 1:2. I believe that Lucifer, the Light Bearer, rebelled against God and was cast down to the earth. Prior to this, Satan was the "morning star". He was the most glorious of God's beings. It is possible that he was so bright that there was no need for sun and moon. It would make sense that God created the sun and moon to replace him.

Lord Jesus came to earth as the Light, not physical but spiritual. (John 9:5) He commissioned His disciples to be the (spiritual) light when He returned to heaven. (Matthew 5:14 )

As far as the woman and man child go, I suggest that you read Watchman Nee, "God's Plan and the Overcomers".

The sun an angel? Unlikely. It has been well studied and it seems material not spirit.
 

de-emerald

Well-known member
May 8, 2021
1,207
485
83
#7
Isaiah 14:12 KJV

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!




No mention of morning star in Isaiah in KJV. Lucifer is the falling star but Jesus is the bright morning star.
yep the translation i posted was from the niv, your quite right its worded differently in the kjv what youve just posted, does that mean the niv is incorrect ?.

NIV Isaiah 14:12
12 How you have fallen from heaven,
morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!
 
Jul 10, 2021
74
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66
#8
Now think like Jesus did Phi 2: 5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
 

Tinkerbell725

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2014
4,151
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Philippines Age 40
#10
yep the translation i posted was from the niv, your quite right its worded differently in the kjv what youve just posted, does that mean the niv is incorrect ?.

NIV Isaiah 14:12
12 How you have fallen from heaven,
morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!

I am not going to tell you what to believe. Just make your own conclusion. Satan wants to be God since the beginning that is why we are all in this mess. Calling him morning star like he deserves some kind of respect is just weird and can cause confusion.
 

de-emerald

Well-known member
May 8, 2021
1,207
485
83
#11
I am not going to tell you what to believe. Just make your own conclusion. Satan wants to be God since the beginning that is why we are all in this mess. Calling him morning star like he deserves some kind of respect is just weird and can cause confusion.
If i Knew what to believe on this subject i would not have asked the question, as for being wierd as to whats written, about angels being stars. it causes me confusion.
 

de-emerald

Well-known member
May 8, 2021
1,207
485
83
#12
Stars are used as a metaphor or symbol usually referring to angels in scripture. That doesn't mean actual stars are angels. In Genesis it says 'He made the stars' - not talking about angelic beings.

The morning star usually means that planet Venus because it is very bright and usually seen near the horizon in the morning. But here it's being used as a symbol, not referring to the planet. It's a 'title' - stripped from Satan and given to Christ. The bright light that heralds the dawn
If i Knew what to believe on this subject i would not have asked the question, as for being wierd as to whats written, about angels being stars. it causes me confusion.
Hi @posthuman you know Jesus said.

1 Corinthians 15:40-48 AMPC
There are heavenly bodies (sun, moon, and stars)

but the beauty and glory of the heavenly bodies is of one kind, while the beauty and glory of earthly bodies is a different kind. The sun is glorious in one way, the moon is glorious in another way,
and the stars are glorious in their own [distinctive] way; for one star differs from and surpasses another in its beauty and brilliance

[Gen. 2:7.] But it is not the spiritual life which came first, but the physical and then the spiritual.

Is Jesus saying the stars become spiritual bodies in 1 corinthians 15:40-48. lets read it aagain

1 Corinthians 15:40-48
40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”[a]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven.


As we can see Jesus is saying where there is a natural body there is a spirital body, and he is saying the star have a natural body here to ? .

To answer your question that in Genesis it in the beginning God made the stars. but that would be the physical body wouldnt it ? , as there seem to be suggestion that they become a spiritua ;body. I think as well its worth pointing out that wheres theres a natural body God would breath life on that body to, as with the study we did with you about animals, Do animmals have a soul etc. there is no mention of God breathing life on the animals but it would appear they have a soul.
 

de-emerald

Well-known member
May 8, 2021
1,207
485
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#13
My understanding is that there was a creation prior to Adam and Eve. It is acceptable to translate "was", "became" in Genesis 1:2. I believe that Lucifer, the Light Bearer, rebelled against God and was cast down to the earth. Prior to this, Satan was the "morning star". He was the most glorious of God's beings. It is possible that he was so bright that there was no need for sun and moon. It would make sense that God created the sun and moon to replace him.

Lord Jesus came to earth as the Light, not physical but spiritual. (John 9:5) He commissioned His disciples to be the (spiritual) light when He returned to heaven. (Matthew 5:14 )

As far as the woman and man child go, I suggest that you read Watchman Nee, "God's Plan and the Overcomers".

The sun an angel? Unlikely. It has been well studied and it seems material not spirit.
Hi @Gideon300 i dont think its out of the realms of possibility. and quite possibly our sun is a verry special angel. theres a lot to take in here such as the age that a star can live for in the physical body. something is living in a star that much we can say. there is the outer body and the inner body of a star just like us. the inner body of a star being the core (the nucleus) and the outer body being the mass. You know the human body also comprises of nucleus cells, so perhaps something in common there.

We also have to look at the beginning. In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
is there a time gap between the heaven and the earth. and what is ment by the heaven. is that referreing to the stars ? what we can see in the sky at night ?
 

de-emerald

Well-known member
May 8, 2021
1,207
485
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#14
spirit cannot be seen? someone very spiritual would need to investigate such.
Hi @Ogom, ive read this scripture
Revelation 19:17
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

This scripture suggests an angel was seen in the sun. it doesnt say outside the sun or near the sun,but actually inside the sun.

My understanding of God creating the heavens and the earth. is he created the heavens first (the stars) Can we say the heavens are the stars, I feal we can because the stars are described as heavenly bodies by Jesus. But was there a gap between the heavens and the earth being created, and how long could that gap be. Could it be billions of years ? because from a scientific point of view its takes billions of years for a star to die in the physical body. we know the stars are described as having a natural body by Jesus. and we know that scripture says the physical body come first befor the spiritual body and where there is a natural body there is a spiritual body. In genesis it says In the Beginning God created the heaven and the earth. is it possible there is a time gap here between the two.
What happens to a star when it dies in its physical body ? and seing as angels are so diffrent to humans, could it be they are indeed born from stars ?
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
5,175
765
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#15
Stars are used as a metaphor or symbol usually referring to angels in scripture. That doesn't mean actual stars are angels. In Genesis it says 'He made the stars' - not talking about angelic beings.

The morning star usually means that planet Venus because it is very bright and usually seen near the horizon in the morning. But here it's being used as a symbol, not referring to the planet. It's a 'title' - stripped from Satan and given to Christ. The bright light that heralds the dawn
To my understanding the Sun, Moon and Stars are used by God for signs. Think of Times Square, you may see a big giant billboard with lights telling you some news that is happening, lets' say a coup with a country being taken over. The little pixels on the billboard are not actually the leader who has been ousted, they are merely a sign telling you what is happening.
 

Hungry

Senior Member
Nov 26, 2012
3,073
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#16
I think it is interesting just how many interpretations there are. What is the point of Scripture if nobody understands it? How can you teach it accurately? My interpretation is so far removed from what is common or accepted.

Let’s say you only have one thousand words to describe what you see. You have to describe something so weird and mind blowing but the diction just hasn’t been invented yet. Everything has to be figurative because what you are describing can only be illustrated in the terms that are common.

Our technology today would appear devine four thousand years ago. Even what has been translated was interpreted according to assumptions over a thousand years ago. Today knowledge has been increased. The language has developed at the rate of our technology. The question: What did Moses, Isaiah, Jesus, John “see”, as they tried to record it for people to understand?

For instance, if you saw a messenger (angel) descending in a ball of light from the heavens (star) we would probably say it was an extra-terrestrial (above earth) encounter. They said the same thing. Heavenly, above earth literally means the same thing as extra-terrestrial.

There is a story written down about a dying star Nibiru, that appears red on an orbit that circles our sun. It drags meteors and space debris behind it. Now does the Bible say that Lucifer actually took a third of the angels, or did we make assumptions. Is it possible that the dragon is a legitimate heavenly body, and not Lucifer? Is it possible that the stars swept at Earth is a meteor shower of epic proportions. When I read Revelations in the light of this ancient story, it sure does add perspective. Read Revelations 6, large earthquake, islands moved out of place, stars falling like figs, the sky rolls back like a scroll (atmosphere being tugged by gravitational pull of a large flyby heavenly body), rulers, generals hiding themselves in the military bases built into the sides of the mountains. This is what starts the tribulation. This is the reason Vatican built the worlds largest infrared telescope and nicknamed it the Lucifer lens. Then when questioned, declared it’s because they knew what was coming.

It’s just a different perspective.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
6,643
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#17
Isaiah 14:12 KJV

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!




No mention of morning star in Isaiah in KJV. Lucifer is the falling star but Jesus is the bright morning star.
You got your reply in before i could.. :)

Yes indeed the KJV is the Bible for me.. It makes a clear distiction between Jesus and satan.. (y)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
31,566
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#18
there is no mention of God breathing life on the animals
but yes, there is:

..every beast after its kind, all cattle after their kind, every creeping thing that creeps on the earth after its kind, and every bird after its kind, every bird of every sort. And they went into the ark to Noah, two by two, of all flesh in which is the breath of life.
(Genesis 7:14-15)


And all flesh died that moved on the earth: birds and cattle and beasts and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth, and every man. All in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, all that was on the dry land, died.
(Genesis 7:21-22)
All have the same breath
(Ecclesiastes 3:19)
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
19,033
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#19
There is mention in the Wosrd how when God takes bath His breath in an animal, it dies.
 

Tinkerbell725

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2014
4,151
1,126
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Philippines Age 40
#20
If i Knew what to believe on this subject i would not have asked the question, as for being wierd as to whats written, about angels being stars. it causes me confusion.

The stars are just symbols for angels. God created actual moon and stars to give light during the night and He made the sun to give light during the day. Angels are like stars, they shine bright and Lucifer shined the brightest because he was the anointed cherub. Maybe some of the stars are actually fallen angels floating in space right now and they will come down to Earth in the great tribulation. Their leader, the dragon, the notorious serpent/devil/satan will become the antichrist and the unbelievers will worship him.