Why are Christians such phonies?

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mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
1,378
227
63
#41
Very close to what I was thinking when I read the 1st Post. There are untold numbers of people in the US, and in the world who claim to be Christians that are not. Some do so from ignorance of what it means to be a Christian, and what it takes to become a Christian. Some do it for personal gain, and there are more than a few of these on the Sunday morning TV Shows I believe.

I know a lot of people who claim to be a Christian because one or more of their parents or grandparents were Christian. They think that because they went to church from time to time that they are Christians; never realizing that they remain lost regardless of their Attendance Record at Church.

The number of true believers compared to the number of those who claim to be Christians is a very small percentage I believe.

When I read, or hear of some church or people acting like those in the 1st comment, I wonder why people believe the wrong doers are Christian? Because they claim to be?
And one of the biggest reasons is the dumbing down of Christianity. Our instruction was to go and make disciples. Today, the church makes adherents only who are not required to follow anything. As long as they turn up on Sunday and put money in the plate, nothing else is required.

In Christianity, disciple primarily refers to a dedicated follower of Jesus. This term is found in the New Testament only in the Gospels and Acts. In the ancient world, a disciple is a follower or adherent of a teacher. It is not the same as being a student in the modern sense. A disciple in the ancient biblical world actively imitated both the life and teaching of the master. It was a deliberate apprenticeship which made the fully formed disciple a living copy of the master.
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
5,985
743
113
36
Australia
#42
Im pretty over churchianity myself. The awkwardness which hits the air when you tell another Christian you don't attend a formal church is thick, as if your salvation is based whether you regularly attend an institutionalised church. Home groups and and small gatherings have always been a massive blessing so we prefer to stick to that.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
6,498
2,964
113
#43
That is a rather a sanctimonious response. The writer is talking about reality. And for your information is always about people. People who are saved. People who need to be saved. People who are in need of a saviour. People who are anointed to go and make disciples. People who are full of the Holy Spirit and go and perform miracles in Jesus name. Without them, there is no church.
No it was not a sanctimonious response it was an accurate response to someone who is saying that they are thinking of giving up their faith because of the faults of human beings around them to live up to the ideals of the LORD Jesus Christ..

The writer is talking about fellow human beings that she has been dealing with and how those dealings are adversely affecting their faith in God..

For me my relationship with the LORD is separate and unaffected by my relationships with other human beings, Christians or non-believers and thats they way i would wish it to be for all my brothers and sisters in Christ.. Because the LORD is true and perfect but people are faulty and will often let you down..

I never stated nor did i encourage anyone to abandon fellowship and working with other Christians.. My point was to encourage people to TRUST only in the LORD and to make Him the foundation that they build their Faith life upon.. Once people make their local pastor or religious community the foundation of their Faith life then it will all fall down like a house of cards as soon as they discover corruption in the church leadership or poor behavior in the congregation around them..
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
1,378
227
63
#44
No it was not a sanctimonious response it was an accurate response to someone who is saying that they are thinking of giving up their faith because of the faults of human beings around them to live up to the ideals of the LORD Jesus Christ..

The writer is talking about fellow human beings that she has been dealing with and how those dealings are adversely affecting their faith in God..

For me my relationship with the LORD is separate and unaffected by my relationships with other human beings, Christians or non-believers and thats they way i would wish it to be for all my brothers and sisters in Christ.. Because the LORD is true and perfect but people are faulty and will often let you down..

I never stated nor did i encourage anyone to abandon fellowship and working with other Christians.. My point was to encourage people to TRUST only in the LORD and to make Him the foundation that they build their Faith life upon.. Once people make their local pastor or religious community the foundation of their Faith life then it will all fall down like a house of cards as soon as they discover corruption in the church leadership or poor behavior in the congregation around them..
But it was in bad taste. I have counseled many people for all sorts of reasons but I tend not to say you need to do this or you need to do that to avoid making them feel worse than what they are. I always start where they are at and then build on that by building a picture of what is possible, small steps at a time so they can adjust their thinking accordingly.

I don't dive into the big one right at the start. When I counsel homosexuals I tell them to live a day at a time. Their goal tomorrow is to not have sex with another guy. We will deal with the next day when we get to it. They might go five days without sex and then on the sixth day, it happens. No worries. if you can go for six days, you can go for seven days. So go back to day one. No sex tomorrow. NOT, no sex for a month.

The problem with homosexuals is not the sex. It is what is in their mind. If they think about sex all the time and they do, it is going to be hard not to be enticed.
 
Mar 27, 2020
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20
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#45
I've been a Christian for a long time and I saw such terrible things; my eyes have been opened to just how sick the church as a whole is. My husband pulled us out of a church and put us into a church I did not like. I had been warned about the family that owned the church and the warning turned out to be true. The youth pastor was corrupt and cheated a family member in a big way. It really hurt but then they were caught doing something corrupt and their names were splashed across the newspapers - countrywide. They hurt a lot of people and then they went to a fair day the town held and set up their booth trying to draw new victims into their church. They were so blatant about it. I actually think they were stealing from the church.

Then we went to another church and the leadership was terrible. They told me that "God" put them in their positions and what they said was it. I was shocked at such overt pride. Then I was injured and we stopped attending the church we went to for 10 years. The pastor stopped taking my calls and I saw that I guess if you're not supporting the church you don't get his time.

Then a friend who I had looked up to never came to visit when I was injured, never sent a card, nothing. But she did that for all the people in her church and I saw that she was a respecter of persons. She and her husband are snooty.

Then I've been on a few other forums and the people are downright demonic. I saw that it's all a lie. Once in awhile you meet someone who is upright but many of the so-called "Christians" are total jerks or psychopaths. One guy got angry whenever I posted a thread and he would jump on immediately and attack me. My husband said he's got something wrong with him. It got so bad I had to threaten him with contacting the police because he was making me feel unsafe.

I'm just really disillusioned with christianity. It all seems like a lie.
Instead of looking for a Church that "fits me" or a Church "where I feel comfortable" shouldn't we be looking for the only Church that Jesus Christ said He built 2,000 years ago? There are hundreds of Protestant Churches filled with good people. But..no Protestant Church even existed until 1532..15 CENTURIES after Jesus Christ said to Simon in Matt.16:17-19.. "You are Peter and upon this rock I will build MY Church." (singular) "And the Gates of Hell will not prevail against IT." (ruling out IT going apostate,) Have there been bad Priests and bad Catholics? Of course! His Church is not a club for Saints. it is a hospital for us sinners. When the High Priest Jesus Christ consecrated the wine and then said.."This IS the blood of the New Covenant which shall be shed for the salvation of many." He was talking about me. He was talking about you. Yes there have been a minority of bad Priests and bad Catholics.. But don't leave Jesus because of Judas!
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
5,523
4,519
113
#46
I'm just really disillusioned with christianity. It all seems like a lie.
Those things that seemed like lies probably were lies, but they were not the fruits of true Christianity.

Galatians
5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
5:15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
5:16 [This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Many who claim to be of Christ are not...

Matthew
7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
7:14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
8,046
2,177
113
#47
saintrose said:
I'm just really disillusioned with christianity. It all seems like a lie

Break out of that mindset. Be a flame of fire for his kingdom.

You are not to frame your thinking and attitudes by the way you are framing churches.

It is a trap.

Rise up and become a soldier in Gods army.
You can actually be propelled off of those hurtful experiences.
You can be bettered of bittered off of those happenings.
Use them
They are trying to use you.
Turn the entire thing on a dime.
DO NOT BLAME THEM FOR ANYTHING.

Instead see them in this light ; ( people are fickle. That is what your experience proves. They will ALWAYS be fickle)

So re invent yourself into the land of faith and victory.
Change your attitude and perspective.

Understand you are poisoning your own well.
Let love completely overtake you and just love them through the power of the Holy Spirit
 

Robo36

Active member
Nov 27, 2019
186
57
28
#48
My church is the Father, the Son & the Holy Spirit. I and God know my issues with phonies & the thoughtless, I'm better off avoiding & ignoring them. Christ wouldn't approve of my verbal intercourse with such. I find what fellowship I can with other Christians here & among my friends. All believers in the Christ are my brothers & sisters in my heart, not to say we all agree. I try hard to ignore the phonies, the thoughtless & the overtly holier than thou. I need no church to pray. Everything I need I find in Jesus the Christ.

Be strong in Christ & ignore the cursed & failed flesh. Make prayer to the Father & the Son your church.

May God bless you!
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
8,046
2,177
113
#49
Ok.
John Bevere has a book "the bait of satan"

It is subject of "offences"

Please,please, read it.

Once you embrace that law...YOUR ENTIRE CHRISTIAN WALK will flourish.
Many,many, many, believers have been shipwrecked of that trap of offences.

Offences will come.
Develop your walk to decapitate every entrapment.

Make it your business to walk in freedom.
You got into a common trap.
The way out is through the brethren that can guide you.

The man of faith operates outside of circumstances.

You have to grab victory. You must pursue it.
Refuse those emotions that are horrible faith robbing traps.

Make getting in his presence your main deal.
Now you have your secret place.
NOW NOTHING CAN TOUCH YOU.
Now you can crack a little smile when you encounter what you did.

Get this picture;
You encounter even more of these belivers that are unchristlike.
You just smile and start walking backwards. Just nodding at them and smiling as you put distance between you and them.
You chuckle a little as you start your car and ask the Holy Spirit to give you such love for them.

Now you are free.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
8,046
2,177
113
#50
""I'm just really disillusioned with christianity. It all seems like a lie""

All believers have experienced that.
We must not go there.
We will be consumed
 
Oct 10, 2020
80
31
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#52
I've been a Christian for a long time and I saw such terrible things; my eyes have been opened to just how sick the church as a whole is. My husband pulled us out of a church and put us into a church I did not like. I had been warned about the family that owned the church and the warning turned out to be true. The youth pastor was corrupt and cheated a family member in a big way. It really hurt but then they were caught doing something corrupt and their names were splashed across the newspapers - countrywide. They hurt a lot of people and then they went to a fair day the town held and set up their booth trying to draw new victims into their church. They were so blatant about it. I actually think they were stealing from the church.

Then we went to another church and the leadership was terrible. They told me that "God" put them in their positions and what they said was it. I was shocked at such overt pride. Then I was injured and we stopped attending the church we went to for 10 years. The pastor stopped taking my calls and I saw that I guess if you're not supporting the church you don't get his time.

Then a friend who I had looked up to never came to visit when I was injured, never sent a card, nothing. But she did that for all the people in her church and I saw that she was a respecter of persons. She and her husband are snooty.

Then I've been on a few other forums and the people are downright demonic. I saw that it's all a lie. Once in awhile you meet someone who is upright but many of the so-called "Christians" are total jerks or psychopaths. One guy got angry whenever I posted a thread and he would jump on immediately and attack me. My husband said he's got something wrong with him. It got so bad I had to threaten him with contacting the police because he was making me feel unsafe.

I'm just really disillusioned with christianity. It all seems like a lie.
there is no law that you have to belong to a big organized church. A church
can be a group of half dozen people or so. From experience i would never
step into a huge named church again. Every one one of those churches stays
in the flesh. God is love and christ preached love. In fact scripture says if
we dont have love we dont have God in us. Love is all we need yet how many
churches preach love. The modern day so called church is not is a sliver of God.
my avice is and i have done this for a very long time, is go small and go God..
bring out the Bible read a Small amount of scripture and discuss and grow
helping each other. Lots of meditative prayer. That prayer is the only road to
the Holy Spirit. That is the only avenue to be one with God and grow in His love
We dont need a preacher trumpeting the same old tropes in our ear every Sunday.
people, God is much more in our livesthan than that,He is our divine Father
filling our hearts with love.
 

DWR

Well-known member
Apr 27, 2020
507
298
63
#53
I know that Christ said there are those who He'll say "depart from me I never knew you." Still, it's disillusioning to see such blatant sin in churches.
Is it wise to believe God recognizes a group as a church just because they call themselves a church?
I believe that most of these so called churches are just that. SO CALLED CHURCHES that God denies as His.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
10,671
3,875
113
#54
where two or three are gathered in my name....I am there, said Jesus

so you dont need even 4 people! All you need is someone to share the Lords supper with and pray, a copy of the Bible, and a voice to sing you dont even need a band.

Or you can all just sit in silence and wait for God to speak to you.

despite the bad experience that Ive encountered in some churches I dont dwell on them cos people are human...people are still learning. You dont become perfect the minute you becomes a christian, yes you have a new spirit but you are still in your old soul and body and lots of people have to carry that round with them still. What a drag!

Its the people who look perfect on the outside but are not regenerated on the inside that need to be wary of. John the baptist turned away those Pharisees who came to him to be baptised, why because they made a big show of being religious and wouldnt repent. They were whitewashed tombs. They shut the kingdom of God out for others that needed Him.

the question of why there are phonies is usually someone in power is one who thinks he (usually male) OWNS the church. I think it would be easy to do this instead of thinking you are a caretaker. A shepherd, likewise, doesnt own the hills. what a nonsense idea to think you can own something...it belongs to God! Hes someone who looks after the sheep.


.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#55
I've been a Christian for a long time and I saw such terrible things; my eyes have been opened to just how sick the church as a whole is. My husband pulled us out of a church and put us into a church I did not like. I had been warned about the family that owned the church and the warning turned out to be true. The youth pastor was corrupt and cheated a family member in a big way. It really hurt but then they were caught doing something corrupt and their names were splashed across the newspapers - countrywide. They hurt a lot of people and then they went to a fair day the town held and set up their booth trying to draw new victims into their church. They were so blatant about it. I actually think they were stealing from the church.

Then we went to another church and the leadership was terrible. They told me that "God" put them in their positions and what they said was it. I was shocked at such overt pride. Then I was injured and we stopped attending the church we went to for 10 years. The pastor stopped taking my calls and I saw that I guess if you're not supporting the church you don't get his time.

Then a friend who I had looked up to never came to visit when I was injured, never sent a card, nothing. But she did that for all the people in her church and I saw that she was a respecter of persons. She and her husband are snooty.

Then I've been on a few other forums and the people are downright demonic. I saw that it's all a lie. Once in awhile you meet someone who is upright but many of the so-called "Christians" are total jerks or psychopaths. One guy got angry whenever I posted a thread and he would jump on immediately and attack me. My husband said he's got something wrong with him. It got so bad I had to threaten him with contacting the police because he was making me feel unsafe.

I'm just really disillusioned with christianity. It all seems like a lie.
Remember, without forgiveness your life will just be a reflection of those that offend you.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
14,306
6,666
113
#56
Is it wise to believe God recognizes a group as a church just because they call themselves a church?
Christians should reserve judgment since only God alone knows who are truly His children.

The real issue is dealing with our own consistency or inconsistencies (and there will be plenty).
 

saintrose

Well-known member
May 9, 2020
675
371
63
#57
Discernment.


Ya ever wonder why a person who dates one abusive person after another?

Any social interactive relationship is the same. Be it in groups or friendships, family or dare we say Church.

One key word you said that set off my senses is that, "the family that owned the church". This says no oversight. No presbytery for accountability.

Maybe it could be the theological brand that is the problem, there are some that are inherent problems.
You hit the nail on the head: two of the churches that we had bad experiences in were independent churches. There was no oversight at all. I was younger and naive and didn't know anything as I was raised Catholic. It took so long to learn it and I feel we failed our children as none go to church today. They were turned off by the phoniness.
 

saintrose

Well-known member
May 9, 2020
675
371
63
#58
Possibly but it would still never change how we are commanded to act or change the mission in reaching the lost and uplifting God's people. Some prophets in the OT literally spoke to deaf ears, none would listen, and they were forced to watch their people enter into judgment.
I wondered if America is under judgement since so much has gone wrong here.
 

saintrose

Well-known member
May 9, 2020
675
371
63
#60
Home groups are more biblical than religious church meetings.
I heard that years ago and it didn't click with me until this year - that's supposedly what the early church did. I've had it with church politics. One thing I'm not is a politicker.