Why are the gifts of the Spirit and timing of the 'rapture' so important?

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RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#1
Allow me to explain a moment here why the gifts of the Spirit, and the timing of the ‘rapture’, are so important.

Does it really matter whether the ‘rapture’ (a misnomer) occurs before or after the tribulation? Jesus told His disciples that the time of tribulation would be as in the days of Noah. Noah was not taken out of the world during it’s judgment, but provided the means by which to survive it. But it was dependent upon Noah being faithful to prepare for it as the Lord instructed. Suppose that, having been warned of the coming flood and told to build the ark, Noah decided that it wasn’t important, not gonna happen, ‘God will save me’, and he didn’t build the boat. Maybe God would have enabled Noah to dogpaddle those 40 days. Or maybe ol’ Noah would have drowned with the rest. Mankind was and will be, after all, judged for disbelief and disobedience.

Jesus taught us to expect judgment and tribulation. Think about what will come: war, famine, disease, crippling pollution, lawlessness, mass upheavals, yada yada yada. If we think ‘thank God we’re not here to see it’ we won’t prepare for it. If we expect to have to survive it all, we’ll need to be prepared. So how might God have us prepare for this? God told Noah to build a boat; maybe He’ll tell you to buy a bus. But again, “eh, we don’t really need it” may keep you from following thru. How we view the timing of the ‘rapture’ will make a BIG difference in how willing we are to respond to what God would have us do, to physically prepare for the judgment He tells us we’re going to see.

BUT more importantly – it will affect how we’ll respond to be spiritually prepared. Jesus said evil will increase, that we will be hated, persecuted, betrayed by friends and family, and hauled off to be killed. It is little wonder that He also said many of us will turn away from Him (Matthew 24:10). Duh. Like the seed planted amid the rocks, when the heat’s on those who are not functional in the Gifts of the Holy Spirit will not be strong enough to stand - much less fight back. End time prophecies show spiritual persecution and warfare on levels unseen since Old Testament times. Those who aren’t trained and versed in such things are going to get slaughtered, or worse, turn away.

In 2 Thessalonians 2:3, Paul talks about the coming of the Lord and our gathering to Him, and he says that day will not come until after the apostasy and the ‘antichrist’ is revealed. Everyone knows about the ‘antichrist’, but few know about the apostasy, the en-mass turning away from and rejection of God. Paul put them on an equal footing.

Jesus says it’s going to happen, that we will see it happen, and that we need to be prepared or we will fail Him!!!

That’s why it’s important.
 
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kenisyes

Guest
#2
Can't I just be ready either way, and trust Him to tell me what I need to do in time? It always seemed to work so far.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
#3
The gifts of the Spirit where just as important back then, when Paul wrote of them, as they are today. It has nothing to do with a "rapture theory"... lol, it's about Christian living and blessing others as Christ has blessed us. They are given to evangelize.
 
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nathan3

Guest
#4
Jesus told His disciples that the time of tribulation would be as in the days of Noah. Noah was not taken out of the world during it’s judgment, but provided the means by which to survive it. But it was dependent upon Noah being faithful to prepare for it as the Lord instructed. Suppose that, having been warned of the coming flood and told to build the ark, Noah decided that it wasn’t important, not gonna happen, ‘God will save me’, and he didn’t build the boat. Maybe God would have enabled Noah to dogpaddle those 40 days. Or maybe ol’ Noah would have drowned with the rest. Mankind was and will be, after all, judged for disbelief and disobedience.

Jesus taught us to expect judgment and tribulation. Think about what will come: war, famine, disease, crippling pollution, lawlessness, mass upheavals, yada yada yada. If we think ‘thank God we’re not here to see it’ we won’t prepare for it. If we expect to have to survive it all, we’ll need to be prepared. So how might God have us prepare for this? God told Noah to build a boat;
Rick I think your on a good track . I think the best way to build a boat of the end time is just as Ephesians 6:11-20 teaches.
And that's how we build the boat.. ( not with flight. ) but to stand and fight :)

Ephesians 6:12

King James Version (KJV)

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

So with the word of God we win.


But without understanding the Bible, then we have no boat, those ppl get swept away in a flood of lies that Satan for his mouth that he brings.Revelation 12:15
 
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GreenNnice

Guest
#5
We are to be led by the Lord in our lives and His leading will show you His way for you Home, might be persecution ending in death, like Stephen, or, might be some other way, the important thing is NOT focusing on having the spiritual gifts but focusing on His plan for your life. The gifts will come when necessary, you will, like Stephen, if your life need it be seen, 'the light' shine down on you. :) Follow Him, for He will take care of you, handle all your burdens on Earth, really take care of you, and, then, when you get to heaven He REALLY takes care of you. What a day ! What a day, that will be :)
 
Sep 8, 2012
4,367
59
0
#6
Allow me to explain a moment here why the gifts of the Spirit, and the timing of the ‘rapture’, are so important.

Does it really matter whether the ‘rapture’ (a misnomer) occurs before or after the tribulation? Jesus told His disciples that the time of tribulation would be as in the days of Noah. Noah was not taken out of the world during it’s judgment, but provided the means by which to survive it. But it was dependent upon Noah being faithful to prepare for it as the Lord instructed. Suppose that, having been warned of the coming flood and told to build the ark, Noah decided that it wasn’t important, not gonna happen, ‘God will save me’, and he didn’t build the boat. Maybe God would have enabled Noah to dogpaddle those 40 days. Or maybe ol’ Noah would have drowned with the rest. Mankind was and will be, after all, judged for disbelief and disobedience.

Jesus taught us to expect judgment and tribulation. Think about what will come: war, famine, disease, crippling pollution, lawlessness, mass upheavals, yada yada yada. If we think ‘thank God we’re not here to see it’ we won’t prepare for it. If we expect to have to survive it all, we’ll need to be prepared. So how might God have us prepare for this? God told Noah to build a boat; maybe He’ll tell you to buy a bus. But again, “eh, we don’t really need it” may keep you from following thru. How we view the timing of the ‘rapture’ will make a BIG difference in how willing we are to respond to what God would have us do, to physically prepare for the judgment He tells us we’re going to see.

BUT more importantly – it will affect how we’ll respond to be spiritually prepared. Jesus said evil will increase, that we will be hated, persecuted, betrayed by friends and family, and hauled off to be killed. It is little wonder that He also said many of us will turn away from Him (Matthew 24:10). Duh. Like the seed planted amid the rocks, when the heat’s on those who are not functional in the Gifts of the Holy Spirit will not be strong enough to stand - much less fight back. End time prophecies show spiritual persecution and warfare on levels unseen since Old Testament times. Those who aren’t trained and versed in such things are going to get slaughtered, or worse, turn away.

In 2 Thessalonians 2:3, Paul talks about the coming of the Lord and our gathering to Him, and he says that day will not come until after the apostasy and the ‘antichrist’ is revealed. Everyone knows about the ‘antichrist’, but few know about the apostasy, the en-mass turning away from and rejection of God. Paul put them on an equal footing.

Jesus says it’s going to happen, that we will see it happen, and that we need to be prepared or we will fail Him!!!

That’s why it’s important.
I couldn't have said it better myself.
Never thought of it this way.
The gifts never ceased. (If you say they did, show me where)
New believers are using them all over the third world....in house churches.
New house churches are being set up by people who experienced the miraculous.
I'm talking NEW,.....like by new converts.
Somehow Laodicea - ( Implanted 1rst world comfort, 401k, 501c3, and the social safety net), doesn't seem so fine to me anymore.
Hear what Ricky says.
 
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GreenNnice

Guest
#7
Allow me to explain a moment here why the gifts of the Spirit, and the timing of the ‘rapture’, are so important.

Does it really matter whether the ‘rapture’ (a misnomer) occurs before or after the tribulation? Jesus told His disciples that the time of tribulation would be as in the days of Noah. Noah was not taken out of the world during it’s judgment, but provided the means by which to survive it. But it was dependent upon Noah being faithful to prepare for it as the Lord instructed. Suppose that, having been warned of the coming flood and told to build the ark, Noah decided that it wasn’t important, not gonna happen, ‘God will save me’, and he didn’t build the boat. Maybe God would have enabled Noah to dogpaddle those 40 days. Or maybe ol’ Noah would have drowned with the rest. Mankind was and will be, after all, judged for disbelief and disobedience.

Jesus taught us to expect judgment and tribulation. Think about what will come: war, famine, disease, crippling pollution, lawlessness, mass upheavals, yada yada yada. If we think ‘thank God we’re not here to see it’ we won’t prepare for it. If we expect to have to survive it all, we’ll need to be prepared. So how might God have us prepare for this? God told Noah to build a boat; maybe He’ll tell you to buy a bus. But again, “eh, we don’t really need it” may keep you from following thru. How we view the timing of the ‘rapture’ will make a BIG difference in how willing we are to respond to what God would have us do, to physically prepare for the judgment He tells us we’re going to see.

BUT more importantly – it will affect how we’ll respond to be spiritually prepared. Jesus said evil will increase, that we will be hated, persecuted, betrayed by friends and family, and hauled off to be killed. It is little wonder that He also said many of us will turn away from Him (Matthew 24:10). Duh. Like the seed planted amid the rocks, when the heat’s on those who are not functional in the Gifts of the Holy Spirit will not be strong enough to stand - much less fight back. End time prophecies show spiritual persecution and warfare on levels unseen since Old Testament times. Those who aren’t trained and versed in such things are going to get slaughtered, or worse, turn away.

In 2 Thessalonians 2:3, Paul talks about the coming of the Lord and our gathering to Him, and he says that day will not come until after the apostasy and the ‘antichrist’ is revealed. Everyone knows about the ‘antichrist’, but few know about the apostasy, the en-mass turning away from and rejection of God. Paul put them on an equal footing.

Jesus says it’s going to happen, that we will see it happen, and that we need to be prepared or we will fail Him!!!

That’s why it’s important.
You put too much emphasis on the power of spiritual gifts, rickzee, God has power over all and, although I do believe all can receive spiritual gifts, it's as He individually wills, per 1 Cor. 12

4There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.
7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[SUP]a[/SUP] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[SUP]b[/SUP] 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.



So, either way, it's a moot point to say they will not have gifts and die at the sword when tested for Christ by anti-christs.

God knows our hearts and if a time comes when we are put in a 'Stephen' situation of martrydom, God will NOT leave us, He will help us do exactly what we need to do.

NOw, that all said we should ALL DESIRE the spiritual gifts, as Paul tells us to desire one of them and so I think he is saying we should desire all of them but also he puts a lot less emphasis on speaking in tongues than prophecy.


1Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy. 2For anyone who speaks in a tongue[SUP]a[/SUP] does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit. 3But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort. 4Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church. 5I would like every one of you to speak in tongues,[SUP]b[/SUP] but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues,[SUP]c[/SUP] unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified.

------------
Your point is well made, spiritual gifts can be important in one's last days, when, at said time, one is to deny Christ or not and the gifts' experience can be an increase of faith by God measure . But, God increases our faith in many ways, by our planting, watering, etc. for Him, doing things, that is, to build on His foundation . :)
 
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peterT

Guest
#8
Allow me to explain a moment here why the gifts of the Spirit, and the timing of the ‘rapture’, are so important.

Does it really matter whether the ‘rapture’ (a misnomer) occurs before or after the tribulation? Jesus told His disciples that the time of tribulation would be as in the days of Noah. Noah was not taken out of the world during it’s judgment,t.
Jesus used that story about the days of Noah after the great tribulation for his coming, not before the tribulation.

Matt24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Yes it does matter to some that want to know what’s going to happen before Jesus comes.

Noah was kept through the flood not from the flood.

And Jesus used that story about the days of Noah after the great tribulation for his coming, not before the tribulation.
 
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peterT

Guest
#9
Allow me to explain a moment here why the gifts of the Spirit, and the timing of the ‘rapture’, are so important.

Does it really matter whether the ‘rapture’ (a misnomer) occurs before or after the tribulation? .
Sorry bro but I seem to be getting mixed messages from that statement, but it was good anyway

It matters a lot Whether the ‘rapture’occurs before or after the tribulation

There is a big difference in seeing the great tribulation and NOT seeing the great tribulation for Christians in the end.

So I think it matters a lot
 
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peterT

Guest
#10
"rapture theory"... lol,.
"rapture theory" lol...

It’s more of a fact than a theory as it is in the word of God.

For here we are standing on the sea of glass AFTER getting the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark.

Revelation 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

And here we are before the throne of God, and serve him day and night


Rv7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

And here we are meeting the lord in the air in the clouds at the last trumpet.

1Thess4:17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

And the dead in Christ rise first at the last trumpet.

The two end time witnesses are dead and rise at the last trumpet, and hear a voice saying Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud


I’d like to see you do any of that without being raptured

The rapture is not a theory, as much as it is a fact, or to be LOL at
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#11
Can't I just be ready either way, and trust Him to tell me what I need to do in time? It always seemed to work so far.
The gifts of the Spirit where just as important back then, when Paul wrote of them, as they are today. It has nothing to do with a "rapture theory"... lol, it's about Christian living and blessing others as Christ has blessed us. They are given to evangelize.
We are to be led by the Lord in our lives and His leading will show you His way for you Home, might be persecution ending in death, like Stephen, or, might be some other way, the important thing is NOT focusing on having the spiritual gifts but focusing on His plan for your life. The gifts will come when necessary, you will, like Stephen, if your life need it be seen, 'the light' shine down on you. :) Follow Him, for He will take care of you, handle all your burdens on Earth, really take care of you, and, then, when you get to heaven He REALLY takes care of you. What a day ! What a day, that will be :)
We are indeed to be led by the Lord daily, and be ready either way, and used of Him according to His will not ours. Yes to follow Him and rely on His leading is first and foremost, above all. It is what keeps us on track.

But there are many who are not ready, who think they don't need to be. Those are the ones I primarily address. The ones of Matthew 24:10, who will turn from Him in persecution because they were not made ready. Including some good and solid saints here at CC.

Some believe things like prophecies died out because of past events that have 'fulfilled' them. But the Word of God is forever, repeating thru time. Prophecy was that Jerusalem will be sacked, truth is it has been several times. But the tribulation judgment and wrath show these prophecies once again playing out, in greater and more powerful ways than ever before. And so our use of the gifts will likewise be in greater and more powerful ways than ever before - and more essential for our physical and spiritual survival. So no the gifts and the 'rapture' are not tied together, but they do coalesce in the end.
 
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kenisyes

Guest
#12
But there are many who are not ready, who think they don't need to be. Those are the ones I primarily address. The ones of Matthew 24:10, who will turn from Him in persecution because they were not made ready. Including some good and solid saints here at CC.
It's good you know that, RIcky. One day my wife came home, and said "there's going to be revival in town, the pastors are saying". I responded "if you have already been revived, please disregard this notice". God had the last laugh, we were two of like 5 people who wound up leading that revival for better than 6 years.