Why Christians get a bad rap amongst the Jews...(an example)

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Mar 28, 2016
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That's it they literally drove those nails in our Lords hands,and he literally bled,they litterally spit on him and litterally stuck a spear in his side,,,not even the best of the spiritualist will deny that....

No one is denying the outward demonstration of God pouring out his unseen Spirit of flesh not poring out flesh and blood as if it could enter the new heavens and Earth .

Jesus says his flesh prophets for nothing .It was used as a "demonstration" of the things not seen the eternal faith principle. 2 Corinthian 4:18

When rightly dividing parables. to ignore the temporal as that seen which is used to represent the eternal not seen,
is to ignore the interpretation prescription .

No one is denning he used the things seen to give us His understanding of the things not seen. That's a work for the literalist called walking by sight after the temporal. We are not what we will be.

The way it is handled causes much confusion . On one hand when looking a the metaphor blood the Catholic insist on literalizing it . While the Jehovah witnesses take the same literal blood and deny its use to be used to prolong life here as one of the healing formulas . Both missing the proper interpretation.

We would never attribute the work of a Satan inspired crowd as having anything to so with the work of the father and Son working together in perfect harmony and submission to one another in order to bring the peace of God that surpasses our human understanding.
In the garden demonstation . the disciples are put to sleep to help us understand the nature of the work is between two. The father and the Son. As the father fulfilled the Isaiah 53 portion he stuck the Son a suffering unto death. The Son cried out and was delivered .Again his sweat used to show the work of the unseen Spirit being poured out as if His Spirit was blood just as spit is used, or other metaphors. Jesus giving His Spirit life in jeopardy of his own Spirit. The gospel in a nutshell.

Blood is use to represent the unseen promised work of pouring out again the unseen Spirit on flesh . Not from that which has no spirit life (flesh and blood)

Twice to emphasize he uses the words "pour out my spirit" . The Spirit of holiness from the ressurection. No such thing as the holiness of corrupted flesh and blood.....salivation is not reckoned according to his birth. God cannot die rather he gives spirit life. .

Joel 2:28-29 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.


Acts 2:17And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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I've heard those theories before, also have heard their refutation.
How do you refute the excavation video of the temple site showing the Gion spring, pool for purification of priests, etc. It was a requirement for the priest to be ritually cleansed before doing the sacrifice. There is no other running water anywhere near the area. Running water was mandatory for cleansing and the priest was required to do it close to the alter. Otherwise he would no longer be cleansed. The walk from there to the stairs up the temple Mount into the supposed temple there would be too far. Especially since the video shows the alter beside the spring and pool.

Obviously you didn't bother to watch the entire video.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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In addition the Torah defines where the temple was built. It was in the north end of Zion also known as the City of David. The north end of city of David is at the southern foot of the Temple Mount not on it. Also David bought the site used for seperating the seed from the chaff of the harvested grain. What farmer would carry his entire harvest up a mountain and then back down after seperating the chaff from the grain.
Think!!

I believe the Torah over tradition any day. Also the Excavation shows the required running water and there is no spring on the Temple Mount. Therefore the temple could not be placed there.

I repeat, I believe the Torah over tradition!!
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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Not sure what you mean? Are you saying the demonstration of the Lamb who was slain from before the foundation of the world when God was working. Having finished all the work he created a rest on the last day . Are you saying it was not promised and they were not anticipating the time period of Kings used as a parable for the time present coming to end when the veil was rent. (not 70 AD) Signaling the end of that temporal period and the beginning of the restored government.

lol, garee with all due respect,,, In Acts 3:19-21 Peter(filled with the Holy Spirit) says Jesus was received in heaven until the restitution of all things. In Acts 1:6 they ask Jesus if the kingdom would be restored at that time and he told them it was not for them to know the times and the seasons that the Father put in his own power.

It might help if you took and made a graph of the time-line of events in the Bible and then wonder why if the restored government(last sentence of your post) began at the veil being torn or the Cross(like your saying) that an apostle and the Holy Spirit speak of it as if it had not yet been fulfilled and would be afterward in the time-line of events that unfolded after those things. And so then your saying it began at the Veil/Cross verses Peter/Holy Spirit saying it would at a different time(after the time your saying) and you'll see the reason why many don't agree with you on this.

If you back up one Scripture to Acts 3:18 you will find what Peter/Holy Spirit filled, said had been fulfilled which was that he would suffer(wich was fulled). And what I mean is that you see the Veil torn(literally),,nails of the Cross(literally),,and every event in Scripture prior to this literally fulfilled and just as God the Almighty has established the fact that he says something will literally take place and it does you draw a line and say the same God changed and everything is spiritual instead of literal.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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Why is this?

The 1 week covenant has not even been confirmed yet. Plus many believe the trib is only 3.5 years (1st 3.5 is supposed peace, but thats another discussion) so the final week has not even started yet, even if they are already here,

That's only from one perspective. Others say that the SS, rfid, debit card ect.(things currently in the world) are the mark or leading to it. Now if they or one of them are then that could only mean that all 7 heads of the beast have come,the ten kings,the little horn,the eighth and then the two horned beast said "let us make an image..ect." and it has been set up(he's the one who causes them to worship the image) and so if he(two horned beast) is already here and working on this mark/image then the ones spoken of as coming prior to him also. If the punishment takes place the sin takes place (prior) to it.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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That's only from one perspective. Others say that the SS, rfid, debit card ect.(things currently in the world) are the mark or leading to it. Now if they or one of them are then that could only mean that all 7 heads of the beast have come,the ten kings,the little horn,the eighth and then the two horned beast said "let us make an image..ect." and it has been set up(he's the one who causes them to worship the image) and so if he(two horned beast) is already here and working on this mark/image then the ones spoken of as coming prior to him also. If the punishment takes place the sin takes place (prior) to it.
You are delving into the murky waters of eschatology. There are four main Biblical views of eschatology. Each contradicting each other in areas. Here are four different sites discussing these views.
----------
End times (eschatology)
Here are 4 different links to the 4 theological Biblical views of eschatology.

This is because Daniel and Revelation are written in symbolic language. Daniel plainly states it is closed until the end times. Revelation is written the same way so it too is closed.

https://www.exploregod.com/biblical-prophecy-four-views-of-the-end-times

https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/mill.cfm

http://www.christianciv.com/eschatology_bs_Sect1.htm

http://executableoutlines.com/end/end_01.htm
 
Apr 15, 2017
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Actually the Catholics were very much against Jews, but many of the early church were also. Martin Luther said horrible things against the Jews. So I do see why there are bad feelings where Christians are concerned when it comes to the Jews.
Which I do not understand people being against the Jews because many were against Jesus when He was on earth, but many Romans were against Jesus, and many Gentiles were against Jesus throughout the history of the Church.

Some Jews accepted Jesus, and accept Jesus today, and some do not, and some Gentiles accept Jesus, and some do not.

Why are they mad at the Jews, when Gentiles today do not accept Jesus when the New Testament is for salvation of all the world, and they have no excuse but have to believe it or they are in trouble, like the Jews have to believe it, but do not.

Are they mad because the whole nation did not accept Jesus, for the whole nation did not accept the Old Testament at times, and sometimes worse than at other times.

Why are they not mad that all the Gentiles do not accept the truth, and reject Jesus.

But the Catholic Church were some mean hombres, going about persecuting people that did not accept their Church, and what they said was truth, so of course they would go against the Jews instead of showing the love of Jesus.

Why don't they look on the positive side that many Jews accepted Jesus, and look at the truth of the Bible that God has not cast off His people that He once foreknew, for God is still with them like always, but they lost the kingdom temporarily, but will get it back, for all Israel shall be saved in the future, and all Gentile governments will be no more.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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Which I do not understand people being against the Jews because many were against Jesus when He was on earth, but many Romans were against Jesus, and many Gentiles were against Jesus throughout the history of the Church.

Some Jews accepted Jesus, and accept Jesus today, and some do not, and some Gentiles accept Jesus, and some do not.

Why are they mad at the Jews, when Gentiles today do not accept Jesus when the New Testament is for salvation of all the world, and they have no excuse but have to believe it or they are in trouble, like the Jews have to believe it, but do not.

Are they mad because the whole nation did not accept Jesus, for the whole nation did not accept the Old Testament at times, and sometimes worse than at other times.

Why are they not mad that all the Gentiles do not accept the truth, and reject Jesus.

But the Catholic Church were some mean hombres, going about persecuting people that did not accept their Church, and what they said was truth, so of course they would go against the Jews instead of showing the love of Jesus.

Why don't they look on the positive side that many Jews accepted Jesus, and look at the truth of the Bible that God has not cast off His people that He once foreknew, for God is still with them like always, but they lost the kingdom temporarily, but will get it back, for all Israel shall be saved in the future, and all Gentile governments will be no more.
For centuries the Catholic Church raged against the Jews pointing to the statements made members of the Sanhedrun saying the blame for sending Jesus to the cross was on their head as well as their descendants. They literally blamed the current Jews of the cross. In reality we all are to be blamed for the need of the cross.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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While it does not change the outcome of the gospel .It does distinguish how we can hear God who is not a man as us. (A Creation)

Remember without parable the Spirit of Christ spoke not and the use of literal blood is not left out as a common metaphor used in various parables that do hide the unseen meaning.

Blood seen, the temporal represents the Spirit not seen the eternal .

We walk by faith the unseen eternal not after what the eyes see the temporal.

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal

Lifeless, spiritless blood like water is used to represent Spirit life.( Unseen eternal) While the life of the flesh is in the blood. Literal blood without the spirit essence of life has no life to offer. . When a person dies their corrupted spirit returns to the father and the body of dust and water return again to the lifeless spirit dust was formed from . Again his flesh which he says profits for nothing.

It must of been typfifed as sinfull to perform that not seen not according to the letter of the law . the one time "demonstration" is over, we walk by faith .
You need to pinch yourself to make sure you have physical flesh, then poke yourself with a needle to see that you actually bleed...not 'as if' you bleed. It was REAL BLOOD, sweat, tears and pain (not 'as if') that went into the redemption of our bodies. A real bodily resurrection of Christ (not an 'as if') and one day we will have real physical bodies, (not 'as if'). In the new physical earth (not 'as if') we are not going to be a bunch of spirits hanging out and floating around. We will have physical bodies as well....

But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
(1Co 15:38-40)
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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How do you refute the excavation video of the temple site showing the Gion spring, pool for purification of priests, etc. It was a requirement for the priest to be ritually cleansed before doing the sacrifice. There is no other running water anywhere near the area. Running water was mandatory for cleansing and the priest was required to do it close to the alter. Otherwise he would no longer be cleansed. The walk from there to the stairs up the temple Mount into the supposed temple there would be too far. Especially since the video shows the alter beside the spring and pool.

Obviously you didn't bother to watch the entire video.
Obviously, I didn't watch it because as I said, I have heard so many theories about the future Temple location and their refutation of other possibilities, I just threw my hands up in the air and said, "Who knows? Who cares? God knows! and His plan will be done!"
I hope you are not so gung-ho on this that you feel it is your calling to convince everyone else of your theory? I'd rather spend my time focusing on lost and hurting souls.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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You are delving into the murky waters of eschatology. There are four main Biblical views of eschatology. Each contradicting each other in areas. Here are four different sites discussing these views.
----------
End times (eschatology)
Here are 4 different links to the 4 theological Biblical views of eschatology.

This is because Daniel and Revelation are written in symbolic language. Daniel plainly states it is closed until the end times. Revelation is written the same way so it too is closed.

https://www.exploregod.com/biblical-prophecy-four-views-of-the-end-times

https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/mill.cfm

http://www.christianciv.com/eschatology_bs_Sect1.htm

http://executableoutlines.com/end/end_01.htm

Hi Endoscopy I'm iamsoandso,,,it's the "each contradicting each other in areas" part that has me describing mine own self as "outside the camps"(which I often say),,lol but I agree the 4 camps seem to start off solid and then drift off into a foggy grey area. From about 70ad to about 250ad those Christians didn't fit in any of those 4 camps,especially the ones contemporary to the apostles but rules are rules and so if mankind says we have to be from one of those 4 count me as delving,lol just makes sense to look in a place not many look to find the thing the others cant find.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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For centuries the Catholic Church raged against the Jews pointing to the statements made members of the Sanhedrun saying the blame for sending Jesus to the cross was on their head as well as their descendants. They literally blamed the current Jews of the cross. In reality we all are to be blamed for the need of the cross.
The reason is unreasonable. Jesus must die to forgive our sin, Jesus himself ask father to forgive His killer.

Why we hate Jews?

I believe that is not the real reason. I remember one say, there is another reason catholic hate Jews, but I forget the real reason
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,713
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You are delving into the murky waters of eschatology. There are four main Biblical views of eschatology. Each contradicting each other in areas. Here are four different sites discussing these views.
----------
End times (eschatology)
Here are 4 different links to the 4 theological Biblical views of eschatology.

This is because Daniel and Revelation are written in symbolic language. Daniel plainly states it is closed until the end times. Revelation is written the same way so it too is closed.
hmm, despite the 'murky waters' and 'closedness' of Revelation due to it's 'symbolism'. still, it promises a blessing to those who read, hear and keep it...

Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near. (Rev 1:3)

So you may discard the four views stuff and actually read, ponder and keep what is written...for the time is near.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,713
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Why we hate Jews?

I believe that is not the real reason. I remember one say, there is another reason catholic hate Jews, but I forget the real reason
Christians shouldn't hate anyone, especially the Jews. The reason non believers hate Jews is because satan hates the Jews and is the prince of this world leading many towards hatred of the people God has chosen for His purpose, (this includes Christians as well).
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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Obviously, I didn't watch it because as I said, I have heard so many theories about the future Temple location and their refutation of other possibilities, I just threw my hands up in the air and said, "Who knows? Who cares? God knows! and His plan will be done!"
I hope you are not so gung-ho on this that you feel it is your calling to convince everyone else of your theory? I'd rather spend my time focusing on lost and hurting souls.
The reason to care is the prophecy that a third temple will be built and the religious Jews will build it on the site of the first 2 temples. That will be where the abomination that causes desolation will occur. The Jews found it and the video is proof of it being excavated. That is where the Torah places it. The north end of Zion aka City of David!!! Never on the Temple Mount. No running water on the Temple Mount as required for the Temple. Therefore the wailing wall was part of Fort Antonio. The fort housed a legion of 6000 troops plus the 4000 assistants supporting the legion. Romans always took the high ground when occupying a foreign country. Also Jesus prophecied not one stone would be left on another one. Josephus recorded that he watched the Romans tear down the temple complex and remove the stones. He stated that if he hadn't watched it he would never have known where it stood. Jesus prophecy was watched and recorded being carried out. Therefore historical and Biblical evidence proves the wailing wall was never part of the temple complex.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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The reason to care is the prophecy that a third temple will be built and the religious Jews will build it on the site of the first 2 temples. That will be where the abomination that causes desolation will occur. The Jews found it and the video is proof of it being excavated. That is where the Torah places it. The north end of Zion aka City of David!!! Never on the Temple Mount. No running water on the Temple Mount as required for the Temple. Therefore the wailing wall was part of Fort Antonio. The fort housed a legion of 6000 troops plus the 4000 assistants supporting the legion. Romans always took the high ground when occupying a foreign country. Also Jesus prophecied not one stone would be left on another one. Josephus recorded that he watched the Romans tear down the temple complex and remove the stones. He stated that if he hadn't watched it he would never have known where it stood. Jesus prophecy was watched and recorded being carried out. Therefore historical and Biblical evidence proves the wailing wall was never part of the temple complex.
And so you're trying to convert me to your theory. Why?
 
Feb 28, 2016
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oh yes, I heard much conniving and goings on behind closed doors,
for quite a conspiracy is going-on, and a sheep that is shorn can't
stand the cold, - but the wool, it was sold, and the bankers
stole the money'...
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,713
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oh yes, I heard much conniving and goings on behind closed doors,
for quite a conspiracy is going-on, and a sheep that is shorn can't
stand the cold, - but the wool, it was sold, and the bankers
stole the money'...
I couldn't help it but when I read your post I was immediately reminded of these lyrics from..

The MacArthur Park Suite...
Spring was never waiting for us, dear
It ran one step ahead
As we followed in the dance
MacArthur's Park is melting in the dark
All the sweet, green icing flowing down
Someone left the cake out in the rain
I don't think that I can take it
'Cause it took so long to bake it
And I'll never have that recipe again
Oh, no
I recall the yellow cotton dress
Foaming like a wave
On the ground beneath your knees
The birds, like tender babies in your hands
And the old men playing Chinese checkers by the trees
MacArthur's Park is melting in the dark
All the sweet, green icing flowing down
Someone left the cake out in the rain
I don't think that I can take it
'Cause it took so long to bake it
And I'll never have that recipe again
Oh, no
MacArthur's Park is melting in the dark
All the sweet, green icing flowing down
Someone left my cake out in the rain
And I don't think that I can take it
'Cause it took so long to bake it
And I'll never have that recipe again
Oh, no, oh
Songwriters: Jimmy Webb

(I use to live two blocks from MacArthur Park in '68 lol.)
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
7,928
1,583
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The reason to care is the prophecy that a third temple will be built and the religious Jews will build it on the site of the first 2 temples. That will be where the abomination that causes desolation will occur. The Jews found it and the video is proof of it being excavated. That is where the Torah places it. The north end of Zion aka City of David!!! Never on the Temple Mount. No running water on the Temple Mount as required for the Temple. Therefore the wailing wall was part of Fort Antonio. The fort housed a legion of 6000 troops plus the 4000 assistants supporting the legion. Romans always took the high ground when occupying a foreign country. Also Jesus prophecied not one stone would be left on another one. Josephus recorded that he watched the Romans tear down the temple complex and remove the stones. He stated that if he hadn't watched it he would never have known where it stood. Jesus prophecy was watched and recorded being carried out. Therefore historical and Biblical evidence proves the wailing wall was never part of the temple complex.

no,,, John 2:19,,,,1 Corinthians 3:16-18,,,,Revelation 21:22,,,,the earth sets up an temple in the place of the temple of God and that is the abomination that pollutes the true temple that God dwells in and he defends his true temple....