Why correct eschatology is important. (The dangers of belief in a pretrib rapture)

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superdave5221

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2009
1,409
31
48
#1
There has been a lot of discussion in this forum about end time events, and especially how one is to interpret the book of revelation. Of course, the book of revelation must be interpreted within the context of who wrote it, who it was written to, and the possible reasons for it's writing in the historical context in which it was written. And, it must also be interpreted within the wider context of the entire written canon.

Since this discussion has been exhaustive, I will not continue it here. I wish instead, to speak of the importance of the correct interpretation of end time events. In particular, I wish to speak of the dangers of the biblically incorrect, and mass media created belief in a pretrib rapture.

In Luke 22, Peter tells Jesus that he will go to prison for him, and die for him if necessary. Jesus replies, "before the cock crows, you will deny me three times."

Why did Peter fail? Was Peter a coward? It would be difficult for me to believe that he was. When Jesus was arrested at Gethsemane, one of those with him drew a sword and cut of the high priest's servant's ear. The bible doesn't say who it was, but it would not surprise me, knowing Peter's nature, to think that he was the one who acted thus.

Peter was no coward. His eschatology failed him. Peter was more than willing to go to prison for Jesus, or to die in battle for him. What he was unwilling to do, because he was unprepared for it, was to die a criminal's death on a cross. Although Jesus had tried to prepare his disciples for his redeeming death on the cross, they still believed that he was going to defeat the Romans, and establish an earthly kingdom. And so, when the time came for him to sacrifice for Christ, he was unable to, because he was unprepared.

What is going to happen to all of those people, who believe in a pretrib rapture, when it doesn't happen? Will they also fail, as Peter did?

Why do soldiers in our military go through such rigorous training before being sent into battle? Because when they face death and suffering at the hands of the enemy, they will be committed to endure it, because they have established in their hearts that the rewards of that suffering and death is worth it. It is the love of their country, and in particular, the safety of their loved ones at home, that gives them the willpower to endure it.

Many people will say, like Peter, that they will die for Christ, but have they really thought of the implications of what they are saying? What does that mean?

Most people believe that to sacrifice for Christ means to mow the sick neighbor's yard, or visit someone in a nursing home, or work in a soup line, or give a few bucks to the Salvation Army's kettles at Christmas. While important, Christ may call on us to sacrifice more, much more. Will we be ready to suffer and die in a tribulation, if we have the false belief that we will be raptured before it occurs?

Later on in John 21, Jesus reinstated Peter, and tells him plainly how he must sacrifice and die. We may not get a second chance, as Peter did.

We must be ready, willing, and able to sacrifice everything for Jesus, including suffering in a tribulation. I believe that Holy Spirit will prepare us, and enable us to do what we must, when the time comes, if necessary. However, part of that enabling process is a correct expectation of what might be required when the end of times comes upon us.
 
C

CrimsonFlames

Guest
#2
Correct interpretation of prophecy is important because when your prophecy calls you to go against the most basic of Christian precepts then something is wrong

Jesus didnt say love thy neighbor until the end times and then slay him with all the hatred you can muster.., just because we may be in the end times doesnt change the basics of Christian conduct. We are to overcome evil with good., not by war and bloodshed and if we are put to death for the good in which we do then we were warned of it.

There are no special clauses., this is not Judaism or Islam.., we dont have special outs that say its ok to kill someone IF
 
B

becausehedied

Guest
#3
There has been a lot of discussion in this forum about end time events, and especially how one is to interpret the book of revelation. Of course, the book of revelation must be interpreted within the context of who wrote it, who it was written to, and the possible reasons for it's writing in the historical context in which it was written. And, it must also be interpreted within the wider context of the entire written canon.

Since this discussion has been exhaustive, I will not continue it here. I wish instead, to speak of the importance of the correct interpretation of end time events. In particular, I wish to speak of the dangers of the biblically incorrect, and mass media created belief in a pretrib rapture.

In Luke 22, Peter tells Jesus that he will go to prison for him, and die for him if necessary. Jesus replies, "before the cock crows, you will deny me three times."

Why did Peter fail? Was Peter a coward? It would be difficult for me to believe that he was. When Jesus was arrested at Gethsemane, one of those with him drew a sword and cut of the high priest's servant's ear. The bible doesn't say who it was, but it would not surprise me, knowing Peter's nature, to think that he was the one who acted thus.

Peter was no coward. His eschatology failed him. Peter was more than willing to go to prison for Jesus, or to die in battle for him. What he was unwilling to do, because he was unprepared for it, was to die a criminal's death on a cross. Although Jesus had tried to prepare his disciples for his redeeming death on the cross, they still believed that he was going to defeat the Romans, and establish an earthly kingdom. And so, when the time came for him to sacrifice for Christ, he was unable to, because he was unprepared.

What is going to happen to all of those people, who believe in a pretrib rapture, when it doesn't happen? Will they also fail, as Peter did?

Why do soldiers in our military go through such rigorous training before being sent into battle? Because when they face death and suffering at the hands of the enemy, they will be committed to endure it, because they have established in their hearts that the rewards of that suffering and death is worth it. It is the love of their country, and in particular, the safety of their loved ones at home, that gives them the willpower to endure it.

Many people will say, like Peter, that they will die for Christ, but have they really thought of the implications of what they are saying? What does that mean?

Most people believe that to sacrifice for Christ means to mow the sick neighbor's yard, or visit someone in a nursing home, or work in a soup line, or give a few bucks to the Salvation Army's kettles at Christmas. While important, Christ may call on us to sacrifice more, much more. Will we be ready to suffer and die in a tribulation, if we have the false belief that we will be raptured before it occurs?

Later on in John 21, Jesus reinstated Peter, and tells him plainly how he must sacrifice and die. We may not get a second chance, as Peter did.

We must be ready, willing, and able to sacrifice everything for Jesus, including suffering in a tribulation. I believe that Holy Spirit will prepare us, and enable us to do what we must, when the time comes, if necessary. However, part of that enabling process is a correct expectation of what might be required when the end of times comes upon us.
Actually the Bible does tell us who it was that cut the ear off and it told us the name of the person that had their ear cut off.

Joh 18:10 Then Simon Peter, having a sword, drew it and struck the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.
 

superdave5221

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2009
1,409
31
48
#4
Correct interpretation of prophecy is important because when your prophecy calls you to go against the most basic of Christian precepts then something is wrong

Jesus didnt say love thy neighbor until the end times and then slay him with all the hatred you can muster.., just because we may be in the end times doesnt change the basics of Christian conduct. We are to overcome evil with good., not by war and bloodshed and if we are put to death for the good in which we do then we were warned of it.

There are no special clauses., this is not Judaism or Islam.., we dont have special outs that say its ok to kill someone IF
You misinterpret me. I am not saying that we must die in jihad to further God's will. I am saying that we may be called upon to die for our faith, at the hands of those who would require us to renounce Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. We must stand up for our beliefs in the face of persecution, and do what we can to alleviate the suffering of our fellow brothers and sisters.

Having said this, I know of no father, who would not do what is necessary to protect the safety of their wife and children, including harming a would be attacker. Jesus said that no greater love is their than to lay down your life for a friend. If your interpretation of the bible is one in which you think that we are required to sit by and do nothing while our families are brutally raped and murdered, then you have a seriously flawed interpretation of scripture.
 

superdave5221

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2009
1,409
31
48
#5
Actually the Bible does tell us who it was that cut the ear off and it told us the name of the person that had their ear cut off.

Joh 18:10 Then Simon Peter, having a sword, drew it and struck the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.
Thank you. I was thinking that it was Peter, but I tried three different versions of the event and could not find his name mentioned. It certainly matches his temperament.
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#6
We must be ready, willing, and able to sacrifice everything for Jesus, including suffering in a tribulation. I believe that Holy Spirit will prepare us, and enable us to do what we must, when the time comes, if necessary. However, part of that enabling process is a correct expectation of what might be required when the end of times comes upon us.
yes we must know what is to be expected and also what God truly promises to us so that we might not be deceived as many are because of their false understanding of eschatology, salvation and justification.

If we have to endure what Paul endured would we even start the race, much less finish it?

2 Corinthians 12
9 And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ’s sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong.


Infirmities are illnesses or sickness, will you endure that with pleasure if it is God's will?

Reproaches of men, will you endure those?

not having all your needs meet, will you endure that for the sake of the Gospel?

You will be persecuted and distressed in body, mind, and soul will you endure for Christ's sake?

Will you be weak in body, poor in circumstances, rejected and abused so that God's strength and His glory might be perfected in you?

weigh the cost, will you pick up the cross and Follow Jesus?
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#7

Luke 14:27-31
New King James Version (NKJV)
27 And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple. 28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and count the cost, whether he has enough to finish it— 29 lest, after he has laid the foundation, and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, 30 saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish’? 31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, does not sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand?


Are you a disciple of Jesus or do you just go for the healing and the food?

5,000 people were feed by the fish and the loaves but how many endured?

Do you pray that the Holy Spirit might come upon you or dwell within you? Do you even know the difference?

John 9
26 Jesus answered them and said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. 27 Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”


do you seek Spiritual nourishment or carnal lust?
 

superdave5221

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2009
1,409
31
48
#8
yes we must know what is to be expected and also what God truly promises to us so that we might not be deceived as many are because of their false understanding of eschatology, salvation and justification.

If we have to endure what Paul endured would we even start the race, much less finish it?

2 Corinthians 12
9 And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ’s sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

Infirmities are illnesses or sickness, will you endure that with pleasure if it is God's will?

Reproaches of men, will you endure those?

not having all your needs meet, will you endure that for the sake of the Gospel?

You will be persecuted and distressed in body, mind, and soul will you endure for Christ's sake?

Will you be weak in body, poor in circumstances, rejected and abused so that God's strength and His glory might be perfected in you?

weigh the cost, will you pick up the cross and Follow Jesus?
Yes, Ananda, you have the right idea. I was at a concert back in September with Third Day, and Tenth Avenue North. One of the announcers at the event, who was promoting World Vision, made a statement that he was so blessed to be born in the U.S. where he knew that his children would never have to experience hunger. I remember thinking at the time, how does he know this? He doesn't know what God has planned for him, or his children.

In this country, we have become so used to watching Hollywood movies, experiencing catharsis while suspending our disbelief. We then leave the movie theatre, knowing that it was only a movie. And then, we watch the late night news, and see people experiencing war and famine in other parts of the world. Then we turn off the TV, and peacefully go to sleep, knowing that it could never happen to us.

The ONLY thing that we can rely on is the love of Jesus Christ in our lives, and our relationship with him. The idea that we will ever have to suffer in such ways is alien to the American psyche. And so, it is easy to believe that God would never let such things happen to us. And so, the pretrib rapture fits our belief system, like a well worn glove.

I am not advocating that we go through life with dread, waiting for the axe to fall on our necks. But we should remember to whom we owe our lives, and who bought our freedom from sin and death. And we should remember that whatever is required from us in this life, it is insignificant, compared to the glorious life to come, as sons and daughters of God Himself, adopted through the blood of Christ on the cross.
 
B

biscuit

Guest
#10
You misinterpret me. I am not saying that we must die in jihad to further God's will. I am saying that we may be called upon to die for our faith, at the hands of those who would require us to renounce Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. We must stand up for our beliefs in the face of persecution, and do what we can to alleviate the suffering of our fellow brothers and sisters.

Having said this, I know of no father, who would not do what is necessary to protect the safety of their wife and children, including harming a would be attacker. Jesus said that no greater love is their than to lay down your life for a friend. If your interpretation of the bible is one in which you think that we are required to sit by and do nothing while our families are brutally raped and murdered, then you have a seriously flawed interpretation of scripture.
"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." (Revelation 3:10)