Why Daniel's 70th Week does NOT support Jesuit "Left Behind" Futurism

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Phoneman-777

Active member
Aug 3, 2019
417
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#1
In the early 16th century, the "Protestant Reformation" was sweeping all across Europe. The Reformers were teaching a prophetic interpretation called "Protestant Historicism" which identified the Roman Catholic Papacy as the Antichrist - this idea was universally believed and taught throughout the Protestant world from the 16th Century until around the turn of the 20th century in America.

What is Jesuit "Left Behind" Futurism?
The Greek "anti-Christos" literally means "take the place of Christ". Since the 6th century, the Papacy has blasphemously claimed to take the place of Christ as the arbiter of Salvation and Mediation and is why the Reformers were able to expose the Papacy as the prophesied Antichrist by sound Biblical exegesis. The resulting mass exodus of Catholics who joined up with the Reformation so devastated the Papacy that by the mid-16th century they desperately turned to the Jesuit Order for help. The "Counter-Reformation" was set in motion which aim was to destroy the Protestant Reformation and the Jesuits were commissioned to produce an alternative interpretation of prophecy which would exonerate the Papacy. Two Jesuit idea emerged:

1) Jesuit Preterism: Jesuit Luiz Alcazar claimed all Bible prophecy had been fulfilled in the 1st century and that the Antichrist had been Emperor Nero or some similar despot. This idea is generally unknown to most Christians.

2) Jesuit "Left Behind" Futurism: Jesuit Francisco Ribera claimed Antichrist will be an evil man arising at the end of time during the "last seven years of tribulation", sit in a temple in Jerusalem, broker an Arab/Jew peace treaty, yada yada yada...sound familiar? Jesuit Ribera stole Daniel's 70th week from the OT and sent it down to the end of time as the "last seven years of tribulation". J. N. Darby later added the "Left Behind" secret rapture idea to it and now it seems the entire Protestant world has been swept away with Jesuit ideas. The Papacy essentially told the world, "If you're looking for the Antichrist, look to the past, to the future, ANYWHERE but at us."

I. WHAT IS THE 70 WEEKS PROPHECY?
The 70 Weeks prophecy is a prophetic time period where a prophetic day = a literal year aka the "day/year principle" established by Numbers 14:34, Ezekiel 4:6, Luke 13:32, etc. The 70 Weeks (490 days) = 490 literal years.

2) WHAT YEAR DOES THE PROPHECY BEGIN?
Daniel says it begins "...from the going forth of the commandment to restore and build Jerusalem..." While there are three decrees pertaining to this restoration - that of Cyrus, Darius, and Artaxerxes - only one is comprehensive enough to satisfy the demands of the 70 Weeks prophecy. Cyrus and Darius merely focused on temple restoration, but the angel Gabriel's words were "...restore and build Jerusalem...the street shall be built, even the wall..." which goes far beyond just temple restoration. Only Artaxerxes' decree covers all this ground. Furthermore, his decree provides for the establishment of a Judiciary and a Constabulary to enforce judicial decrees, as well. According to Ezra 7, Artaxerxes' decree was "in the seventh year reign" which archaeology has proven irrefutably to be 457 B.C. 457 B.C. is our starting point.

3) ARE THE 70 WEEKS DIVIDED INTO EVENT PERIODS?
Yes, the first "7 weeks" pertain to the 49 years that would pass before the street and walls were completed...then follows the period of the "threescore and two weeks" or 62 weeks, which is 434 years that would pass and bring us "unto Messiah the Prince". This refers not to His birth or death, but to His baptism - "Messiah" means "Anointed One" and it's at this time Jesus was anointed in baptism to lay aside His carpenter belt and go forth as the Messiah preaching the kingdom of God is at hand. Daniel's prophecy is clear that the completion of the 69 Weeks would be marked by Jesus' baptism...followed by the events of the 70th week. Jesus' earthly ministry commenced at the start of the 70th week.

4) 457 B.C. MINUS 483 YEARS BRINGS US TO 27 A.D. - IS THIS THE YEAR OF JESUS' BAPTISM?
Yes, Luke 3:21 records Jesus' baptism, and yet Luke 3:1 tells us what year that took place! There was only one year in history that Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate, and Herod the Tetrarch reigned simultaneously. According to the Syro-Macedonian calendar -- which was the most commonly used calendar in that region and the one Luke would have used -- the year of that simultaneous reign was 27 A.D. Jesus was baptized at the exact time of the fulfillment of the 69 Weeks and is why He began His ministry by proclaiming, "The time is fulfilled..." which referred to the fulfillment of the 69 Weeks and the beginning of the 70th Week - the week that the Jesuit Ribera hacked out of the OT prophecy and sent down to the end of time as the mythological "last seven years of tribulation".

5) DID JESUS FULFILL ALL THE PREDICTED EVENTS OF THE 70TH WEEK?
Without a doubt, to the letter. The prophecy said Jesus would do the following:
  • "finish the transgression" -- the word "transgression" here is the strongest word in the OT for sin and literally means "revolt" or "rebellion". The use of the definite article "the" shows this phrase is not referring to the general rebellion of mankind, but to a specific rebellion. To whom and what does this prophecy pertain? To "thy people and thy holy city." The "transgression" to which this refers is that of the "revolt" and "rebellion" of the Jews; those which God had held in highest esteem and expectation. Messiah would end their transgression either by their acceptance of Him or by bringing and end to their modified theocracy through casting them to the four winds of heaven, which He eventually did.
  • "make and end of sins" -- Daniel didn't say Jesus would make an end of "sinning" but of sins - by bearing them on the Cross, He "put away sin" by the sacrifice of Himself, according to Hebrews 9:26-28.
  • "make reconciliation for iniquity" -- "To wit, that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself..." 2 Corinthians 5:19
  • "bring in everlasting righteousness" -- By His faithfulness unto death, He is alive evermore as the "Lord of our Righteousness" and, notwithstanding the sinful world around us, we are ever righteous through faith in Him.
  • "to seal up the vision and prophecy" -- Christ would "seal up" communicating by vision and prophecy with the rebellious Israelites forever for their disobedience and rejection of Him, because "where there is no vision the people perish, but he that keepeth the law, happy is he" (Proverbs 29:18). After the last prophet sent to Israel, Stephen, was rejected and martyred, the Spirit of Prophecy ceased among Israel and commenced with the church.
  • "to anoint the Most Holy" -- This refers to Christ's commencement of His High Priestly ministry in the Heavenly Sanctuary. The inauguration of the OT sanctuary saw the anointing of the High Priest, as well as the Holy Place and the Most Holy place. This was the case of the Heavenly Sanctuary, after which the earthly was modeled.
  • "...and AFTER threescore and two weeks Messiah shall be cut off..." -- Jesus' was cut off AFTER the 7 and 62 weeks, which means AFTER the 69 Weeks, which means DURING the 70th! Historic events have already taken place during the 70th Week, which means that week is nailed down solid in past history, and no Jesuit or any other can hack it off and send it down to the end of time!
  • "...the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy..." -- this refers to either the soldiers of prince Titus which destroyed Jerusalem in 70 A.D. -- OR -- refers to the Jews of Prince Jesus who, through rebellion had caused God's hand of protection to be withdrawn from them, destroyed their own beloved city. No where is the Antichrist seen here.
  • "he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week..." -- Isaiah says Jesus was given "for a covenant"; Malachi says Jesus is the "Messenger of the Covenant"; Paul told the Romans Jesus came to "confirm the promises" which includes the promise of the New Covenant"; Jesus said His blood was of the New Covenant shed for "many" and Daniel says Messiah would "confirm the Covenant with "many"; and Hebrews 2:3 explains how Jesus confirmed the New Covenant for the 7 years, though He ascended not long after His crucifixion: "How shall we escape if we neglect so great salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and then was confirmed to us by them that heard Him." -- meaning Jesus confirmed the New Covenant of salvation first by His own words for 3 1/2 years and then through the words of the disciples for the remaining 3 1/2 years!

  • "...and in the midst of the week He shall cause the sacrifices and oblation to cease." -- When the Lamb of God was crucified in the middle of the 70th week, God tore the temple veil from top to bottom, signifying that sacrificial system had ceased to be of any significance to Him forever.
Job says Leviathan -- Satan animalified -- will NEVER make a covenant with God's people, so to claim Satan will confirm a covenant for them is just plain theological skulduggery.
May God bless the sincere seeker of truth and help many out of Jesuit error for His glory alone, Amen.
 
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
725
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#2
As I understand all looked for the Kingdom to appear in the time of the Roman Empire just as Daniel said. It did, but it is Spiritual and only the born again can see it. The Pharisees were not born again so they thought it must be something in the future. They always looked for a physical kingdom to rid Israel of the Romans. So this is the great divide between millennialism taught by the Pharisees and Amillennialism taught and endorsed in the Creeds of Christendom.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
7,332
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#3
yea its weird how this old mangling of scripture always does the rounds esp on discussion sites. The Jesuits then influenced sects like 7th day adventists and Jehovahs witnesses, who waited in vain for the apocalypse to happen on mountain tops and when nothing happened they called it 'The Great Disappointment' and had to do their fearmongering cult recruitment another way.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
3,412
887
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#4
I just simply study Scripture and look at what it says:

So here is the text of Daniel 9:
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

It is easy to see that verse 25 deals with the first 69 groups of seven years. Then verse 26 gives two things that happen after the first 69 sevens: Messiah is cut off (crucifixion) and the people of the prince that will come destroys Jerusalem and the Temple. The destruction of the Temple happened in A.D. 70. Then verse 27 goes on to describe events in the last group of seven years. It is clear to see that there is a gap/space of time between the 69 sevens and the 70'th seven.

To try to put the 70'th seven happening immediately after the first 69 sevens violates the context of the passage. And to say that Jesus death ended "sacrifice and oblation" -- this is just not so because the Jews kept sacrificing in the Temple until 70 A.D.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
9,394
1,509
113
#5
In the early 16th century, the "Protestant Reformation" was sweeping all across Europe. The Reformers were teaching a prophetic interpretation called "Protestant Historicism" which identified the Roman Catholic Papacy as the Antichrist - this idea was universally believed and taught throughout the Protestant world from the 16th Century until around the turn of the 20th century in America.
The teaching regarding the seven years has nothing to do with Jesuits, but is garnered from the scriptures. This is a similar ploy to when people claim that Darby and others are responsible for bringing in the teaching of the church being gathered prior to God's wrath. The gathering of the church is concluded from the fact that:

1). God's wrath has already been satisfied by Jesus and therefore the wrath of God no longer rests upon the believer

2). The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments represent God's wrath and therefore believers cannot enter into that time of wrath

3) God does not punish the righteous with the wicked

Those reasons do not come from a Jesuit priest, but from scripture. All that you are doing is what so many others do, which is to repeat existing false apologetics.

We know that Nero could not be the antichrist/beast because scripture states that 'the man of lawlessness' (which is another designation for the antichrist) would be destroyed by the brightness of Christ's coming to the earth to end the age. Consequently, Nero committed suicide in 68 AD by plunging a dagger into his neck. Therefore, Nero does not fit the criteria of being the man of lawlessness, the antichrist. For one, Nero made a seven year covenant with Israel and two, he committed suicide and was could not have been destroyed by the brightness of the Lord's coming.

No, it does not refer to the Lord's baptism. The words are "after sixty-nine sevens, the Anointed One would be cut off." That is not a reference to baptism, but of the Lord's crucifixion. How can you interpret the Lord being 'cut off' as referring to His baptism?

Jesus being cut off is referring to His death at the end of the sixty nine sevens and is related to the following:

"By oppression and judgment He was taken away, and who can recount His descendants? For He was cut off from the land of the living; He was stricken for the transgression of My people."

I don't know what planet you live on, but the nation Israel is still in a state of unbelief. It is during that last seven year period and specifically during the last 3 1/2 years that the decree will be fulfilled.

It is 'the ruler of the people' referred to in verse 26 as the one who is going to establish that seven year covenant and not Jesus. Jesus is cut off (crucified) at the end of the sixty nine sevens (not in the middle) which takes place before the last seven years begins.

The 'he' in Daniel 9:27 is therefore that ruler, the antichrist who will establish the seven year covenant with Israel. In support of this, it states that the 'he' in verse 27 sets up an abomination on a wing of the temple, which is quoted by Jesus in Matthew 24:15. The word 'bdelugma' translated as 'abomination' is defined as a detestable thing, an abominable thing, an accursed thing. properly, what emits a foul odor and hence is disgustingly abhorrent (abominable, detestable); (figuratively) moral horror as a stench to God. Therefore, by claiming Jesus as the one who makes the covenant, then He would also have to be the same one who sets up the abomination, which would be a stench to God.

May God bless the sincere seeker of truth and help many out of Jesuit error for His glory alone, Amen.
You should take your own advice and seek the truth. This has nothing to do with Jesuits, but these truths that you distort are found in scripture.
 

Truth7t7

Active member
May 19, 2020
840
138
43
#6
The teaching regarding the seven years has nothing to do with Jesuits, but is garnered from the scriptures. This is a similar ploy to when people claim that Darby and others are responsible for bringing in the teaching of the church being gathered prior to God's wrath. The gathering of the church is concluded from the fact that:

1). God's wrath has already been satisfied by Jesus and therefore the wrath of God no longer rests upon the believer

2). The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments represent God's wrath and therefore believers cannot enter into that time of wrath

3) God does not punish the righteous with the wicked

Those reasons do not come from a Jesuit priest, but from scripture. All that you are doing is what so many others do, which is to repeat existing false apologetics.

We know that Nero could not be the antichrist/beast because scripture states that 'the man of lawlessness' (which is another designation for the antichrist) would be destroyed by the brightness of Christ's coming to the earth to end the age. Consequently, Nero committed suicide in 68 AD by plunging a dagger into his neck. Therefore, Nero does not fit the criteria of being the man of lawlessness, the antichrist. For one, Nero made a seven year covenant with Israel and two, he committed suicide and was could not have been destroyed by the brightness of the Lord's coming.

No, it does not refer to the Lord's baptism. The words are "after sixty-nine sevens, the Anointed One would be cut off." That is not a reference to baptism, but of the Lord's crucifixion. How can you interpret the Lord being 'cut off' as referring to His baptism?

Jesus being cut off is referring to His death at the end of the sixty nine sevens and is related to the following:

"By oppression and judgment He was taken away, and who can recount His descendants? For He was cut off from the land of the living; He was stricken for the transgression of My people."

I don't know what planet you live on, but the nation Israel is still in a state of unbelief. It is during that last seven year period and specifically during the last 3 1/2 years that the decree will be fulfilled.

It is 'the ruler of the people' referred to in verse 26 as the one who is going to establish that seven year covenant and not Jesus. Jesus is cut off (crucified) at the end of the sixty nine sevens (not in the middle) which takes place before the last seven years begins.

The 'he' in Daniel 9:27 is therefore that ruler, the antichrist who will establish the seven year covenant with Israel. In support of this, it states that the 'he' in verse 27 sets up an abomination on a wing of the temple, which is quoted by Jesus in Matthew 24:15. The word 'bdelugma' translated as 'abomination' is defined as a detestable thing, an abominable thing, an accursed thing. properly, what emits a foul odor and hence is disgustingly abhorrent (abominable, detestable); (figuratively) moral horror as a stench to God. Therefore, by claiming Jesus as the one who makes the covenant, then He would also have to be the same one who sets up the abomination, which would be a stench to God.



You should take your own advice and seek the truth. This has nothing to do with Jesuits, but these truths that you distort are found in scripture.

Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Weeks Explained?

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four hundred and ninety years), simple


Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.


Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;

Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.

Daniel 10:2-3KJV

2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weekswere fulfilled.

Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal future weeks or 490 days.

When the call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period.

62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the Antichrist who stops the building.

The 70th literal week will see the antichrist revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.

The 3.5 year tribulation has started.


Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
11,546
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#7
The teaching regarding the seven years has nothing to do with Jesuits, but is garnered from the scriptures. This is a similar ploy to when people claim that Darby and others are responsible for bringing in the teaching of the church being gathered prior to God's wrath.
Absolutely correct. This is another red herring to deflect people from what is actually revealed in Scripture. We can TOTALLY IGNORE ALL THE JESUITS and still find that Daniel's 70th week is in the future.

Without going into a great amount of detail, we can simply examine verse 24 (which has been seriously MISINTERPRETED by the OP) and see that it remains to be fulfilled.

DANIEL 9:24: AWAITS A FUTURE FULFILLMENT
Seventy weeks... Hebrew seventy sevens = 490 years
...are determined upon thy people... this pertains to Israel and the Jews
..and upon thy holy city...
this pertains to Jerusalem
...to finish the transgression... this pertains to terminating the desecration of the future temple by the Antichrist with the Abomination of Desolation
...and to make an end of sins... this pertains to the redemption of Israel
...and to make reconciliation for iniquity... this pertains to the reconciliation of believing Israel to God
...and to bring in everlasting righteousness... this pertains to the literal establishment of everlasting righteousness both in the land of Israel and on the earth
...and to seal up the vision and prophecy... this pertains to the fulfillment of all end time prophecies
...and to anoint the most Holy...this pertains to the establishment of the fourth temple (Ezekiel's temple) in Jerusalem for eternity.

GOD'S PLAN FOR THIS EARTH IN ETERNITY: EVERLASTING RIGHTEOUSNESS
...and to bring in everlasting righteousness...

It should be obvious to everyone that what we have on earth right now is sin, evil, and unrighteousness increasing daily. The riots in the USA are sufficient to establish that. And this is because Satan is the "god of this world", and the whole world lieth in wickedness. But this is only temporary from God's perspective.

After the Second Coming of Christ, Jesus will establish the Millennium on earth and there will be universal peace and righteousness under His iron rod. That is because Satan and his evil angels will be bound in the bottomless pit at that time (Rev 20:1-3)

But at the end of 1,000 years Satan will be released to deceive the nations again, and the enemies of God and Christ will gather for the battle of Gog and Magog. They will all be destroyed, and Satan will be cast into the Lake of Fire (to join the Antichrist and the False Prophet).

Only then, after the Great White Throne Judgment and the supernatural cleansing of the earth and its atmosphere with fire will God establish the New Heavens and the New Earth. And only then will there be everlasting righteousness on earth.

2 PETER 3: HOW EVERLASTING RIGHTEOUSNESS WILL BE ESTABLISHED
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for New Heavens and a New Earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.


Which means that anyone who claims that Daniel's 70th week has been fulfilled is a liar. Daniel's 70th week PRECEDES the Second Coming of Christ, and all the events to follow as noted above.
 
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
725
113
#8
Absolutely correct. This is another red herring to deflect people from what is actually revealed in Scripture. We can TOTALLY IGNORE ALL THE JESUITS and still find that Daniel's 70th week is in the future.

Without going into a great amount of detail, we can simply examine verse 24 (which has been seriously MISINTERPRETED by the OP) and see that it remains to be fulfilled.

DANIEL 9:24: AWAITS A FUTURE FULFILLMENT
Seventy weeks... Hebrew seventy sevens = 490 years
...are determined upon thy people... this pertains to Israel and the Jews
..and upon thy holy city...
this pertains to Jerusalem
...to finish the transgression... this pertains to terminating the desecration of the future temple by the Antichrist with the Abomination of Desolation
...and to make an end of sins... this pertains to the redemption of Israel
...and to make reconciliation for iniquity... this pertains to the reconciliation of believing Israel to God
...and to bring in everlasting righteousness... this pertains to the literal establishment of everlasting righteousness both in the land of Israel and on the earth
...and to seal up the vision and prophecy... this pertains to the fulfillment of all end time prophecies
...and to anoint the most Holy...this pertains to the establishment of the fourth temple (Ezekiel's temple) in Jerusalem for eternity.

GOD'S PLAN FOR THIS EARTH IN ETERNITY: EVERLASTING RIGHTEOUSNESS
...and to bring in everlasting righteousness...

It should be obvious to everyone that what we have on earth right now is sin, evil, and unrighteousness increasing daily. The riots in the USA are sufficient to establish that. And this is because Satan is the "god of this world", and the whole world lieth in wickedness. But this is only temporary from God's perspective.

After the Second Coming of Christ, Jesus will establish the Millennium on earth and there will be universal peace and righteousness under His iron rod. That is because Satan and his evil angels will be bound in the bottomless pit at that time (Rev 20:1-3)

But at the end of 1,000 years Satan will be released to deceive the nations again, and the enemies of God and Christ will gather for the battle of Gog and Magog. They will all be destroyed, and Satan will be cast into the Lake of Fire (to join the Antichrist and the False Prophet).

Only then, after the Great White Throne Judgment and the supernatural cleansing of the earth and its atmosphere with fire will God establish the New Heavens and the New Earth. And only then will there be everlasting righteousness on earth.

2 PETER 3: HOW EVERLASTING RIGHTEOUSNESS WILL BE ESTABLISHED
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for New Heavens and a New Earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.


Which means that anyone who claims that Daniel's 70th week has been fulfilled is a liar. Daniel's 70th week PRECEDES the Second Coming of Christ, and all the events to follow as noted above.
Prove scripture says there is a gap between the 69th and 70th weeks. This is a lie unless you have scripture to prove it. You are turning Jesus into Antichrist so the Papacy doesn't have to face the charges.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
9,394
1,509
113
#9
Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Weeks Explained?

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four hundred and ninety years), simple


Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.


It's not a matter of Daniel having restrictions in writing exact numerology. Daniel's seventy weeks of years, is referring to seventy sets of seven year periods. Below is the scripture:

Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble.

If we look at just the first part of the scripture, Jerusalem would be restored and rebuilt in seven 'sevens' which according to your claim that they are literal seven day periods, it would mean that Jerusalem would have been restored and rebuilt in two weeks! In addition, the scripture says that at the end of sixty two sevens that the Anointed One would be cut off, which once again according to your claim of them being literal seven day periods, after the rebuilding and restoration which you say would have only taken two weeks, then sixty two days later the Anointed One would be cut off. Since the restoring and rebuilding of Jerusalem was initiated by Nehemiah, then sixty two days later Jesus would have been crucified. The math just not add up here, as the restoring and rebuilding Jerusalem began in 445 BC.

The Seventy 'sevens' interpreted as seventy seven year periods or 490 years, fits the prophecy perfectly.

God told Israel that they were to work the land for six years and then to let the land lay fallow (unworked) during the seventh year. Israel did not obey God in this and continued to work the land continuously for 490 years without leaving any of the seventh years unworked. Therefore, God had Israel taken into captivity by Babylon to give the land its due rest. That works out to one year of captivity for each seven year periods during the 490 year period which comes out to 70 years of captivity. It was at the end of this 70 years of captivity that Nehemiah received the letters (decrees) from king Artaxerxes for safe passage through the Trans-Euphrates and to cut down trees out of the kings forest for wood to rebuild and restore Jerusalem.


Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal future weeks or 490 days.

When the call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period.
62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the Antichrist who stops the building.

The 70th literal week will see the antichrist revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.


All of the above is just completely ridiculous and conjecture on your part. Everything listed above is in your own words and not what scripture says. First of all, the decree is to restore and rebuild Jerusalem which had been damaged by the Babylonians, was to restore Jerusalem. 'to build unto the Jewish Messiah that they wait for" which you posted above is not what the scripture states.

7 seven year periods = To restore and rebuild Jerusalem

62 seven year periods = The Anointed One is cut off at the end of the 69 sixty nine seven year periods which is 434 years after the seven sets of seven year periods.

The last seven years is reserved to fulfilled in conjunction with the return of the Lord to the earth to end the age.

The 3.5 year tribulation has started.
Your claim above is just utter nonsense! And that because Jesus referred to that last 3 1/2 years of the last seven year period, as the great tribulation, which would be a time of great tribulation such as the world has never seen from the beginning of the world, until now and never to be equaled again. If those days had been allowed to go on any longer, no one would be alive on the earth. So no, the 3 1/2 years of tribulation have not started. The church must be removed prior to their start because they belong to the time of God's wrath, which we are not appointed to suffer.

As long as the church is still on the earth, then God's wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments cannot begin.
 

Phoneman-777

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#10
As I understand all looked for the Kingdom to appear in the time of the Roman Empire just as Daniel said. It did, but it is Spiritual and only the born again can see it. The Pharisees were not born again so they thought it must be something in the future. They always looked for a physical kingdom to rid Israel of the Romans. So this is the great divide between millennialism taught by the Pharisees and Amillennialism taught and endorsed in the Creeds of Christendom.
Agreed, brother - the kingdom on Earth which is now is Spiritual. It's the height of redonkulousness for Preterists to claim God's literal kingdom was established during the Roman Empire, but they believe Jesuit Preterist nonsense which claims all Bible prophecy is fulfilled, so what else can they do, right?

I recently debated a Preterist about this and took him to Daniel 7:21 and showed him that "the kingdom is given to the people of the saints of the Most High" way down at the end of time after "the Judgment was set and the books were opened"...which is long after the Roman Empire has fallen off the stage of history...he admitted that he could see I was right, but still kept insisting the literal kingdom of God is here now....classic case of "Cognitive Dissonance".
 

Phoneman-777

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#11
yea its weird how this old mangling of scripture always does the rounds esp on discussion sites. The Jesuits then influenced sects like 7th day adventists and Jehovahs witnesses, who waited in vain for the apocalypse to happen on mountain tops and when nothing happened they called it 'The Great Disappointment' and had to do their fearmongering cult recruitment another way.
If I may be so bold as to correct this bit of Revisionist Church History...

Long before an SDA existed, 19th century students of prophecy all over the world incorrectly interpreted the word "sanctuary" in Daniel 8:14 to mean "the Earth" and thus mistakenly concluded that Jesus was coming back after the 2,300 Days to cleanse the Earth with fire at His Second Coming, which is what ultimately led to that disappointment...not the Jesuits.

What the Jesuits DID accomplish during that time was convincing the Protestant world that the corrupt Greek MSS "Critical Text" was superior to the Textus Receptus of the glorious Protestant Reformation.
 

Phoneman-777

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#12
To try to put the 70'th seven happening immediately after the first 69 sevens violates the context of the passage.
Chester, say your boss sends you to lunch at noon and says be back at 1:00 and you show up at 2:00 and he says, "Hey, where the flip you been the last hour?"....and you reply, "Oh, sorry boss, I forgot to tell you that between 12:59 and 1:00 there is A ONE HOUR GAP". Is he gonna buy that?....yet that is exactly what you "gap theory" guys want the rest of us to believe - that there's a 2000+ year gap between the 69th and the 70th.

"AFTER" the 69 Weeks means "DURING" the 70th.
And to say that Jesus death ended "sacrifice and oblation" -- this is just not so because the Jews kept sacrificing in the Temple until 70 A.D.
I just can't see how we can dismiss the Cross and the supernaturally torn veil as God's clear announcement to the world the sacrificial system had ceased to be of any significance to Him - and claim elaborate Jewish barbecues as evidence to do so.
 

Chester

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May 23, 2016
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#13
Chester, say your boss sends you to lunch at noon and says be back at 1:00 and you show up at 2:00 and he says, "Hey, where the flip you been the last hour?"....and you reply, "Oh, sorry boss, I forgot to tell you that between 12:59 and 1:00 there is A ONE HOUR GAP". Is he gonna buy that?....yet that is exactly what you "gap theory" guys want the rest of us to believe - that there's a 2000+ year gap between the 69th and the 70th.

"AFTER" the 69 Weeks means "DURING" the 70th.
I just can't see how we can dismiss the Cross and the supernaturally torn veil as God's clear announcement to the world the sacrificial system had ceased to be of any significance to Him - and claim elaborate Jewish barbecues as evidence to do so.
You said, "AFTER" the 69 Weeks means "DURING" the 70th. LOL - No it does not - "after the 69 weeks" means exactly that = "after the 69 weeks"

You said, I just can't see how we can dismiss the Cross and the supernaturally torn veil as God's clear announcement to the world the sacrificial system had ceased to be of any significance to Him"
I never said anything about dismissing the cross! And never do I read anywhere that the sacrificial system has "ceased to be of any significance to God."
 

Nebuchadnezzer

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#14
I just simply study Scripture and look at what it says:

So here is the text of Daniel 9:
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

It is easy to see that verse 25 deals with the first 69 groups of seven years. Then verse 26 gives two things that happen after the first 69 sevens: Messiah is cut off (crucifixion) and the people of the prince that will come destroys Jerusalem and the Temple. The destruction of the Temple happened in A.D. 70. Then verse 27 goes on to describe events in the last group of seven years. It is clear to see that there is a gap/space of time between the 69 sevens and the 70'th seven.

To try to put the 70'th seven happening immediately after the first 69 sevens violates the context of the passage. And to say that Jesus death ended "sacrifice and oblation" -- this is just not so because the Jews kept sacrificing in the Temple until 70 A.D.
70th week happend 66 to 73 AD.
Prove scripture says there is a gap between the 69th and 70th weeks. This is a lie unless you have scripture to prove it. You are turning Jesus into Antichrist so the Papacy doesn't have to face the charges.
I thought there was a gap. The guy who posted this thread is saying Jesus crucified around 27-30 AD

But the roman-jewish war that ended sacrifices, destroyed the sanctuary and was the beginnings of desolations did not happen until 66 to 73 AD. So there is a gap here.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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#15
70th week happend 66 to 73 AD.


I thought there was a gap. The guy who posted this thread is saying Jesus crucified around 27-30 AD

But the roman-jewish war did not happen until 66 to 73 AD. So there is a gap here.
All related events of the 70 weeks, set into motion then.
 

Nebuchadnezzer

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#16
yea its weird how this old mangling of scripture always does the rounds esp on discussion sites. The Jesuits then influenced sects like 7th day adventists and Jehovahs witnesses, who waited in vain for the apocalypse to happen on mountain tops and when nothing happened they called it 'The Great Disappointment' and had to do their fearmongering cult recruitment another way.
You have allowed Miller (7th day adventists) and the Jehovahs to influence your thinking.
There erroneous interpretations have succeeded in pushing you away from the historicist interpretation, which is the correct approach.

The problem is that Miller turned his historicist approach into a futurist approach. He made future predictions that failed to come to fruition. This is a distortion of the historicist approach.
 

Phoneman-777

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#17
It's clear you aren't reading my posts - I'll give it one more shot - to which of the following do you check "No" ?

1) Luke 3:21 records Jesus' baptism. Yes [ ] No [ ]

2) Luke 3:1 says it was during the simultaneous reign of Tiberius, Pontius, and Herod. Yes [ ] No [ ]

3) History says there was only one year these three reigned simultaneously. Yes [ ] No [ ]

4) According to the Syro-Macedonian Calendar - which that region of the world, including Luke, would have commonly used - that simultaneous reign is 27 A.D. Yes [ ] No [ ]

5) The 69 Weeks ended at "Messiah the Prince". When was Jesus "anointed" to lay down His carpentry belt and go forth as the "anointed Messiah" - at Calvary or in the Jordan? In the Jordan. Yes [ ] No [ ]

6) If you count 483 years (69 Weeks) from 457 B.C., you come to 27 A.D. Yes [ ] No [ ]

Still unconvinced?
 

Phoneman-777

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#18
Absolutely correct. This is another red herring to deflect people from what is actually revealed in Scripture. We can TOTALLY IGNORE ALL THE JESUITS and still find that Daniel's 70th week is in the future.

Without going into a great amount of detail, we can simply examine verse 24 (which has been seriously MISINTERPRETED by the OP) and see that it remains to be fulfilled.

DANIEL 9:24: AWAITS A FUTURE FULFILLMENT
Seventy weeks... Hebrew seventy sevens = 490 years
...are determined upon thy people... this pertains to Israel and the Jews
..and upon thy holy city...
this pertains to Jerusalem
...to finish the transgression... this pertains to terminating the desecration of the future temple by the Antichrist with the Abomination of Desolation
...and to make an end of sins... this pertains to the redemption of Israel
...and to make reconciliation for iniquity... this pertains to the reconciliation of believing Israel to God
...and to bring in everlasting righteousness... this pertains to the literal establishment of everlasting righteousness both in the land of Israel and on the earth
...and to seal up the vision and prophecy... this pertains to the fulfillment of all end time prophecies
...and to anoint the most Holy...this pertains to the establishment of the fourth temple (Ezekiel's temple) in Jerusalem for eternity.

GOD'S PLAN FOR THIS EARTH IN ETERNITY: EVERLASTING RIGHTEOUSNESS
...and to bring in everlasting righteousness...

It should be obvious to everyone that what we have on earth right now is sin, evil, and unrighteousness increasing daily. The riots in the USA are sufficient to establish that. And this is because Satan is the "god of this world", and the whole world lieth in wickedness. But this is only temporary from God's perspective.

After the Second Coming of Christ, Jesus will establish the Millennium on earth and there will be universal peace and righteousness under His iron rod. That is because Satan and his evil angels will be bound in the bottomless pit at that time (Rev 20:1-3)

But at the end of 1,000 years Satan will be released to deceive the nations again, and the enemies of God and Christ will gather for the battle of Gog and Magog. They will all be destroyed, and Satan will be cast into the Lake of Fire (to join the Antichrist and the False Prophet).

Only then, after the Great White Throne Judgment and the supernatural cleansing of the earth and its atmosphere with fire will God establish the New Heavens and the New Earth. And only then will there be everlasting righteousness on earth.

2 PETER 3: HOW EVERLASTING RIGHTEOUSNESS WILL BE ESTABLISHED
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for New Heavens and a New Earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.


Which means that anyone who claims that Daniel's 70th week has been fulfilled is a liar. Daniel's 70th week PRECEDES the Second Coming of Christ, and all the events to follow as noted above.
The OP has misinterpreted NOTHING. I've shown why ever single aspect of the prophecy is fulfilled by Jesus within the 70 Weeks. Unfortunately, Jesuit Futurists can only resort to twisting Scripture as the means of "debunking" Historicism.

For instance, it it claimed that the "future Antichrist dude" is going to sit in a rebuilt "temple of God", but they fail to take into account that Paul refers to the church over and over as the "temple" (Gr. "Naos"). Furthermore, it is unbelievably naive to think that God would refer to a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem as His temple...would God really inspire Paul to use "temple of God" to refer to a building in which the resumption of lamb sacrifices would be one national Jewish middle finger in the face of God Who already sent His dear Son 2,000 years before as the Lamb? Yeah, right. The "temple of God" is the church, and the "man of sin" who's been sitting in it refers to the papal system led throughout history by blasphemous popes claiming to be God on Earth and claiming power to forgive sin.

Although this was mainstream Protestant eschatological belief for centuries worldwide, somehow Protestantism became "enlightened" 100 years ago and now teaches Jesuit Futurism and denounces Historicism?
 

Phoneman-777

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#19
It's not a matter of Daniel having restrictions in writing exact numerology. Daniel's seventy weeks of years, is referring to seventy sets of seven year periods.
Which other Numerically Specific Time Prophecy of the Bible does anyone try to insert a 2,000+ year gap? No gaps in the 120 year sermon of Noah, no gaps in the 400 years in the land of Goshen, no gaps in Elijah's 3 1/2 year famine, no gaps in the 70 year Babylonian captivity...plenty other such prophecies with no gaps.