WHY DID JAMES NOT WRITE ABOUT THE WORK OF CHRIST?

[eternally-gratefull]

James 2
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

I'm pretty sure Scripture tells us that what Abraham believed in Genesis 15 was not fulfilled until seven chapters later in 22 when Abraham offered Isaac as a sacrifice.

So God lied in Gen 15.. Thanks,, If thats what you want to believe, feel free..

You also have james contradicting paul. Which just takes the whole word of God and calls it into question.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Again, I'm not justified by my faith, but the faith of Jesus Christ. Can the faith of Christ save me? Yes and it has. Where's the evidence of Christ's faith? In His obedience unto death, even the death of the cross.

My individual faith is my labor or works that will be judged at the JSOC. My works will be tried as to what sort they were. At the JSOC there will be believers in Christ that have no works. Their works will be burned up through fire, but they will be saved.

Again, This is wrong, I have to chose to trust Jesus

Abraham trusted in God, As Hebrews says, Abraham trusted God in his promise, Knowing ad fully assured God could raise his son from the dead to keep Gods promise.

God is a trustworthy God. why do you think he is not?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, that you should walk in them. It's a choice for the believer. That's why Paul tried to persuade believers to labor for the Lord because of the coming judgment where works will be tried.

2 Corinthians 5
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

No, Should is the wrong word. that makes salvation by works, not by faith.

WILL is the correct answer,

Paul made it clear. He who began a good work in you, WILL COMPLETE THAT WORK

That means his children WILL do good works.

That is why their faiht is not in question. The only people who have faith that is questionable are those who are hearers of the word and not doers. The people James confronted.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Fitting the square peg in the round hole...

whatever, If this is what you think.


I think this,,

God gave me the right to be his child. why? I believed on his name (had faith, my faith, Not gods) john 1..

You have abraham being justified by works, meaning grace is out of the picture. and have declared paul to be a liar.

 

[John146]

So God lied in Gen 15.. Thanks,, If thats what you want to believe, feel free..

You also have james contradicting paul. Which just takes the whole word of God and calls it into question.

God didn't lie, He just states that the fulfillment of his imputed righteousness did not occur until Genesis 22.

The Bible doesn't contradict itself. I just don't try and fit James into Paul, that's all. It's believing in dispensations.

 

[John146]

Again, This is wrong, I have to chose to trust Jesus

Abraham trusted in God, As Hebrews says, Abraham trusted God in his promise, Knowing ad fully assured God could raise his son from the dead to keep Gods promise.

God is a trustworthy God. why do you think he is not?

Come on brother, don't turn this into that kind of talk. It's Bible study. Let's study without the mess of others put on the board. OK?

God is trustworthy but not all doctrine in the Bible is directed at the church, the body of Christ. There are three audiences: the Jew, Gentile, and the church of God. There are no "twelve tribes" in the church, no Jew or Gentile.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God didn't lie, He just states that the fulfillment of his imputed righteousness did not occur until Genesis 22.

The Bible doesn't contradict itself. I just don't try and fit James into Paul, that's all. It's believing in dispensations.

Thats not true, If this is true, Abraham was justified by works, Not faith, (see also romans 4) And paul and james and the OT contradict each other.

You can not have it both ways bro.

Abraham was completely justified on the moment God declared him justified. His works proved his faith was real..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Come on brother, don't turn this into that kind of talk. It's Bible study. Let's study without the mess of others put on the board. OK?

God is trustworthy but not all doctrine in the Bible is directed at the church, the body of Christ. There are three audiences: the Jew, Gentile, and the church of God. There are no "twelve tribes" in the church, no Jew or Gentile.

Gods way of salvation has been the same from adam until the last man standing on earth.

The message of grace is the same.

What is true of the jew is true of the gentile. always has been. there is no different gospel for th ejew than there is or ever was to the gentile.

I was just stating what I see as fact, and asking you a question.

 

[John146]

No, Should is the wrong word. that makes salvation by works, not by faith.

WILL is the correct answer,

Paul made it clear. He who began a good work in you, WILL COMPLETE THAT WORK

That means his children WILL do good works.

That is why their faiht is not in question. The only people who have faith that is questionable are those who are hearers of the word and not doers. The people James confronted.

I'm going with Scripture on this.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Whenever Scripture does not line up with my theology, I change my theology to line up with Scripture. I never change the word of God to fit my theology.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm going with Scripture on this.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Whenever Scripture does not line up with my theology, I change my theology to line up with Scripture. I never change the word of God to fit my theology.

Thats ok, Show me a TRUE child of God who is a hearer and not a doer. Who has no works.

and also interpret that the way it is said,

God has for ordained that we who are saved should walk in works..

And then tell me how that contradicts what I said..

 

[John146]

Gods way of salvation has been the same from adam until the last man standing on earth.

The message of grace is the same.

What is true of the jew is true of the gentile. always has been. there is no different gospel for th ejew than there is or ever was to the gentile.

I was just stating what I see as fact, and asking you a question.

I'm not claiming a different gospel. The only way to eternal life is through the blood of Jesus Christ. How Christ's blood is applied has changed my brother. In the OT was to listen to God's word, have faith in God's word and obey it, whatever that was. It was different throughout the course of history.

Let me ask you about the OT saints. Were they:

1. made a new creature in Christ
2. born again
3. spiritually circumcised
4. sealed with the Holy Spirit
5. part of the body of Christ, the bride
6. absent from the body and present with the Lord

We have something better than they. The work has been done. The cross has been accomplished. Should we go on to good works? Absolutely! But, some may not and fall back into this world. They will be judged and suffer loss at the JSOC. I don't have to prove my justification to any man by my works.

Let's say I am a Christian. Can I prove it to you by taking care of a sick and hungry brother? What does that prove? That I'm saved? Why do I need to justify myself before man anyway?

 

[John146]

Thats ok, Show me a TRUE child of God who is a hearer and not a doer. Who has no works.

and also interpret that the way it is said,

God has for ordained that we who are saved should walk in works..

And then tell me how that contradicts what I said..

1 Corinthians 3, works are burned, suffer loss, is saved.

Tell me, how many works does a believer have to perform in order to be justified? And who is doing the justification? Man or God? Could you list some works that justify a man that he is saved?

 

[Hawkins]

​Why is it that Apostle James does not mention anything about the the work (Crucifixion, death, burial, quickening, raising, ascension and session) of Christ in his epistle?

How come that An apostle who did not even believe in Christ during His earthly ministry was appointed to direct the church at its infancy?

Could it be that this situation has contributed greatly to the struggle the church has been having between grace and law till this day?
correct me if what i say is wrong pls

​

James is a firm supporter of Paul. His epistle is complementary to what Paul says. He defines what kind of faith is the correct kind of faith. He also mentioned how to deal with trials. These are quite unique theologically speaking. I think that he had a better grasp of what Paul said than Peter did thus he's the right person to write something complementary to what Paul has said.

 

[garee]

James is showing that Genesis 15:6 was not completed until Abraham offered up Isaac. Remember, that the one Abraham was proving himself to on top of that mountain was God, not other men. He was not "justified before men" up there as most commentaries falsely claim. On that mountain God said, "now I KNOW that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me." Genesis 22:12.

Because the kingdom of God could never be of this corrupted earth .The Genesis 15 account is given as a parable seeing that the temporal things are used to seen to point to that not seen the eternal kingdom of God not of this world. The word figure used by the paraphrases below is the Greek word parable.

It is one of the many historically true experiences as a parable of the unseen (the faith principle).It was not reckoned to Abraham as a righteousness of His own self . God moved him by a work of His faith that worked in him to both will and do Christ's good pleasure.

Hebrews 11:19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

For we walk by the faith of Christ not after our experiences. Called walking by sight looking for our experiences as a work we performed .

The question James is asking in James 2 is not "will works follow faith." The question is "Can faith save him?" James 2:14.

The question is "whose" work of faith can save. Can we have the faith of Christ in respect to Abraham . Or is it Christ’s faith working in us that makes faith complete or perfect?


Paul is very clear that the faith that saved him has no works attached to it whatsoever. In fact, saving faith is by definition, without works.

I would say not without works but not without a work we could do .We are saved by Christ’s work pouring out His Spirit .

It is the same faith that was in Abraham as it was with all of the old testament saints.as the faith of God worked in them

1Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

The faith that justified me was not my faith. It was the faith of Jesus Christ.

Philippians 3:9, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Amen The same faith that worked in Abraham (not of himself) but of Christ.

Abraham did not have the faith of Christ. It wasn't even available to him according to Paul in Galatians 3:22-25. James is taking you back to OT times where a man lived by his own individual faith.

Galatian 3 :22-25 is a reminder (verse 26) that all the children of God come by faith of generated by Christ Jesus who we then can faith towards Him.. The hearing of faith defined by verses 1-5 .


O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Gal 3:1-5

 

[Stephen63]

I'm curious about the intent of the Op. So far, it's been discussed about the chronological age of the epistle, who's it written to, does it disagree with Paul..... why Paul?

It would disagree with Paul IF the particular doctrine the Op believes in is true.

Since it wouldn't, that means that belief has broken one of the basic methods of interpreting scripture: scripture interprets scripture.

Context is usually the surrounding verses of a text, but it can be other scriptures on the same topic. For example, if we were to look at a verse that talked about works, the easiest way to understand the importance of works is to do a word search for work & works, & you'd find a ton of verses that have the words in it.

I know everybody knows that, but I'm just showing how easy it is to do it, & that it's a proper way to do it. When you think about it that way, you might come to the conclusion that the average christian with average reading skills & average comprehension could learn quite a bit about the Bible if they really wanted to.

 

[Gr8grace]

If your claim you have faiht, but have no work, your faith is dead, Can your faith save you? No.

why? because you have no works? No, Because YOU HAVE NO FAITH.

But it is BY GRACE that we are saved. Our faith can be dead, but Grace isn't.

Acts 16:31~~ the MOMENT we believe we are saved.

2 Tim 2:13~~New American Standard Bible
If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.(because the moment we believe we are a part of Him,Sealed by Him, in union with him,His body)

 

[Gr8grace]

Come on brother, don't turn this into that kind of talk. It's Bible study. Let's study without the mess of others put on the board. OK?

God is trustworthy but not all doctrine in the Bible is directed at the church, the body of Christ. There are three audiences: the Jew, Gentile, and the church of God. There are no "twelve tribes" in the church, no Jew or Gentile.

There were 12 tribes scattered after the resurrection of Jesus Christ though. And even Paul struggled with the fact that he wasn't to go them.

 

[p_rehbein]

For one, James writes to the twelve tribes scattered abroad. Paul writes to the church, the body of Christ.

Why would you think this answered my question? Who Paul or James wrote to in no way justifies the statement that James OPPOSED Paul, or any of the other Disciples. Those James was writing to were ALSO part of the Church. They were believers just as were those Paul (and others) wrote to...........so, how is this James OPPOSING Paul?

Clearly shown in Chapter One.........

16) Do not err, my beloved brethren.
17 .) Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
18 .) Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

James considered these he was writing to TO BE PART of the FIRSTFRUITS!

Only the Church were considered to be "firstfruits."

You guys are going a long way outta bounds to try and show some disputation between James and Paul, or the other Disciples.

Seriously.............

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm not claiming a different gospel. The only way to eternal life is through the blood of Jesus Christ. How Christ's blood is applied has changed my brother. In the OT was to listen to God's word, have faith in God's word and obey it, whatever that was. It was different throughout the course of history.

No John, It has never been this way, That would make the OT gospel a gospel of works, and not grace.

Let me ask you about the OT saints. Were they:

1. made a new creature in Christ
2. born again
3. spiritually circumcised
4. sealed with the Holy Spirit
5. part of the body of Christ, the bride
6. absent from the body and present with the Lord

How could they, There salvation could not be SEALED until Christ fulfilled the law. Even if you use this example. they would not have been saved when they did one work, There justification would be applied (using your term) the moment Jesus said it is finished, Not when abraham offered his son.

We have something better than they. The work has been done. The cross has been accomplished. Should we go on to good works? Absolutely! But, some may not and fall back into this world. They will be judged and suffer loss at the JSOC. I don't have to prove my justification to any man by my works.

Let's say I am a Christian. Can I prove it to you by taking care of a sick and hungry brother? What does that prove? That I'm saved? Why do I need to justify myself before man anyway?

You missed the point altogether. James was not telling you or anyone else to prove your works, He was telling people who were hearers of the word and not doers to prove their faith to themselves..

Can you be saved if you claim to have faith but have no works? If you (each individual) claim you have faith, but have no work, YOUR faith is dead.

works can not prove anyone is saved, A religious person who is not saved can do works, and look like they are saved, But they are not saved at all..

Again, James message is to hearers and not doers. People Jude called licentious. People who think all they had to do is believe and they were saved thus they could live however they want.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

1 Corinthians 3, works are burned, suffer loss, is saved.

Tell me, how many works does a believer have to perform in order to be justified? And who is doing the justification? Man or God? Could you list some works that justify a man that he is saved?

Oh so those people never had one work?

Now your contradicting yourself. You said abraham had to do works to be justified. As did all OT people. now we live under a different standard?

James was written after Jesus died and was ressurected. No one was under law anymore (not that it mattered, Obedience NEVER SAVED ONE PERSON) yet here you have James telling jews that they have to work to earn salvation.

sorry, Not going to buy it.

Again, show me one licentious christian who is saved. Just one.