Why does God oppose Judaizing?

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Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#1
I think it is explained well in the first chapter of Isaiah. The Hebrews were making sacrifices to the Lord at that time to copy the heathens who made sacrifices as part of idol worship, not for forgiveness of sin. They were to make sacrifices of animals in the spirit of Christ, for the forgiveness of sins. Leviticus 4: 35 They shall remove all the fat, just as the fat is removed from the lamb of the fellowship offering, and the priest shall burn it on the altar on top of the food offerings presented to the Lord. In this way the priest will make atonement for them for the sin they have committed, and they will be forgiven.

Each physical, fleshly thing the Hebrews were told to do was to be an expression of a spiritual meaning. When the physical act was done and the spiritual meaning was ignored, the Lord said he hated the physical act.

God gave instructions to the Hebrews because they were the ones chosen to show
God to the world, but every instruction to them was for man, all of them, to be included when they accepted the Lord. In old testament time, no one accepted God who didn’t become a Hebrew. But as in all of the instructions God gives, it was for mankind, not Jews only. I think it is still true that every instruction the Lord gives us is still for mankind, never Jews only. I think our instructions about Judaizing is not about being against Jewish customs for God is only against sin, it is against only fleshly worship.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
12,390
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#2
Isaiah 1 mentions many sins:

Revolt against God (v. 2)
Corruption (4)
Despising and turning away from God (4)
Rebellion (5, 20)
Bloodshed and murder (15, 21)
Evil deeds (16)
Ruthless behaviour is not reproved (17)
Orphans and widows were not defended (17, 23)
Loving bribes, chasing rewards (23)
Desiring "oaks" and choosing "gardens" (29)

The gist is not idolatry, but rather a selfish and uncaring attitude towards their fellow human beings, particularly the vulnerable. No mention is made of Gentiles.

Acts 15 and Paul's letter to the Galatians tell us what "Judaizers" do: they seek to put Gentile Christians under the Levitical laws, specifically by requiring them to be circumcised, and generally, by requiring them to act like Jews.

Honestly, I don't see how you make any connection between Isaiah 1 and "Judaizing".
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
2,064
614
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#3
Isaiah 1 mentions many sins:

Revolt against God (v. 2)
Corruption (4)
Despising and turning away from God (4)
Rebellion (5, 20)
Bloodshed and murder (15, 21)
Evil deeds (16)
Ruthless behaviour is not reproved (17)
Orphans and widows were not defended (17, 23)
Loving bribes, chasing rewards (23)
Desiring "oaks" and choosing "gardens" (29)

The gist is not idolatry, but rather a selfish and uncaring attitude towards their fellow human beings, particularly the vulnerable. No mention is made of Gentiles.

Acts 15 and Paul's letter to the Galatians tell us what "Judaizers" do: they seek to put Gentile Christians under the Levitical laws, specifically by requiring them to be circumcised, and generally, by requiring them to act like Jews.

Honestly, I don't see how you make any connection between Isaiah 1 and "Judaizing".
You think the Lord is all about gentiles and Jews, so of course you could not consider anything else. I wonder what scriptures you use to get this conception of God?

I don't think God was considering differences in race when God said he asked man not to bring him meaningless offerings. It was about meaningless offerings, not about Hebrews only.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
12,390
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#4
I don't think God was considering differences in race when God said he asked man not to bring him meaningless offerings. It was about meaningless offerings, not about Hebrews only.
God was speaking through Isaiah to Israel specifically. Verse 3 tells us this. You are engaging in eisegesis when you try to inject the rest of humanity into this chapter.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
2,064
614
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#5
God was speaking through Isaiah to Israel specifically. Verse 3 tells us this. You are engaging in eisegesis when you try to inject the rest of humanity into this chapter.
If you ignore all other scriptures explaining God, then this is so.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
12,390
6,539
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#6
If you ignore all other scriptures explaining God, then this is so.
In Isaiah 1, God was speaking to Israel. Of course there is a lesson for all peoples in that chapter, as there is in every chapter of Scripture, but it was not written to all peoples.

God hated the new moon festivals and appointed feasts of Israel. No other nation had feasts appointed by God. Who is left like a shelter in a vineyard in verse 8? The Daughter of Zion. Which is the faithful city that had become a harlot in verse 21? Jerusalem. Which God will avenge Himself on His foes in verse 24? The Mighty One of Israel. Which land will be redeemed in verse 27? Zion.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
2,064
614
113
#7
In Isaiah 1, God was speaking to Israel. Of course there is a lesson for all peoples in that chapter, as there is in every chapter of Scripture, but it was not written to all peoples.

God hated the new moon festivals and appointed feasts of Israel. No other nation had feasts appointed by God. Who is left like a shelter in a vineyard in verse 8? The Daughter of Zion. Which is the faithful city that had become a harlot in verse 21? Jerusalem. Which God will avenge Himself on His foes in verse 24? The Mighty One of Israel. Which land will be redeemed in verse 27? Zion.
This thread is to discus Judinaizing. I brought up Israeal in this discussion because in that chapter it speaks of God hating meaningless offerings which is what the judaezers do.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
2,472
2,070
113
#8
In this way the priest will make atonement for them for the sin they have committed, and they will be forgiven.

That was a looong time ago. Today accepting Jesus blood is the only way. Doesn't matter what shade of brown you are.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
2,064
614
113
#9
That was a looong time ago. Today accepting Jesus blood is the only way. Doesn't matter what shade of brown you are.
But isn't
Christianity about eternal truths, meaning forever and without time limitations? And isn't the Lord's instructions to us also eternal, so yesterday's instructions not to be a judaizer are as valid today as they ever were?

Scripture tells us that from the beginning of time there was no forgiveness without blood, the symbolic blood of Christ before
Christ came as a man and was crucified. God is eternal.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
12,390
6,539
113
#11
This thread is to discus Judinaizing. I brought up Israeal in this discussion because in that chapter it speaks of God hating meaningless offerings which is what the judaezers do.
Where in Scripture are you told that?
 

Moses_Young

Active member
Sep 15, 2019
285
144
43
#12
I think it is explained well in the first chapter of Isaiah. The Hebrews were making sacrifices to the Lord at that time to copy the heathens who made sacrifices as part of idol worship, not for forgiveness of sin. They were to make sacrifices of animals in the spirit of Christ, for the forgiveness of sins. Leviticus 4: 35 They shall remove all the fat, just as the fat is removed from the lamb of the fellowship offering, and the priest shall burn it on the altar on top of the food offerings presented to the Lord. In this way the priest will make atonement for them for the sin they have committed, and they will be forgiven.

Each physical, fleshly thing the Hebrews were told to do was to be an expression of a spiritual meaning. When the physical act was done and the spiritual meaning was ignored, the Lord said he hated the physical act.

God gave instructions to the Hebrews because they were the ones chosen to show
God to the world, but every instruction to them was for man, all of them, to be included when they accepted the Lord. In old testament time, no one accepted God who didn’t become a Hebrew. But as in all of the instructions God gives, it was for mankind, not Jews only. I think it is still true that every instruction the Lord gives us is still for mankind, never Jews only. I think our instructions about Judaizing is not about being against Jewish customs for God is only against sin, it is against only fleshly worship.
You should define what you mean by Judaizing. In the bible, Judaizing meant essentially compelling non-Jews to follow Jewish customs in order to have a place in the Church. Paul was not a Judaizer, but he kept many Jewish traditions, and even circumcised Timothy. He was adament that Jewish traditions should not be forced on Christians, though.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
12,757
1,171
113
#13
Isaiah 1 mentions many sins:

Revolt against God (v. 2)
Corruption (4)
Despising and turning away from God (4)
Rebellion (5, 20)
Bloodshed and murder (15, 21)
Evil deeds (16)
Ruthless behaviour is not reproved (17)
Orphans and widows were not defended (17, 23)
Loving bribes, chasing rewards (23)
Desiring "oaks" and choosing "gardens" (29)

The gist is not idolatry, but rather a selfish and uncaring attitude towards their fellow human beings, particularly the vulnerable. No mention is made of Gentiles.

Acts 15 and Paul's letter to the Galatians tell us what "Judaizers" do: they seek to put Gentile Christians under the Levitical laws, specifically by requiring them to be circumcised, and generally, by requiring them to act like Jews.

Honestly, I don't see how you make any connection between Isaiah 1 and "Judaizing".
It is against the Judaizers. Attacking the orphans and widows (born again ones) Like Saul under a law of the fathers a law. Given a letter of approval from the high priest . Kill them all. Out of sight out of mind. Like that of Cain in the field plow em under. .

The law of Judaizers in Acts .( oral traditions of men)

If it pertains to the works of the flesh. . its idolatry .

It is what is being taught in Isaiah 1. Unbelieving Israel according to the flesh violating the law of God against born again Israel. Remember not all Israel is born again Israel (Israel. = Those who wrestles against flesh and blood and because they have the Spirit of Christ in their earthen bodies of death they can overcome . Born again Israel as a inward Jew.

In the last days he renamed his bride called "Christian" a befitting for name for her. Residents of the city of Christ (Zion the heavenly Jerusalem) prepared as His bride .A city named after her husband Christ.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
12,390
6,539
113
#14
It is against the Judaizers. Attacking the orphans and widows (born again ones) Like Saul under a law of the fathers a law. Given a letter of approval from the high priest . Kill them all. Out of sight out of mind. Like that of Cain in the field plow em under. .

The law of Judaizers in Acts .( oral traditions of men)

If it pertains to the works of the flesh. . its idolatry .

It is what is being taught in Isaiah 1. Unbelieving Israel according to the flesh violating the law of God against born again Israel. Remember not all Israel is born again Israel (Israel. = Those who wrestles against flesh and blood and because they have the Spirit of Christ in their earthen bodies of death they can overcome . Born again Israel as a inward Jew.

In the last days he renamed his bride called "Christian" a befitting for name for her. Residents of the city of Christ (Zion the heavenly Jerusalem) prepared as His bride .A city named after her husband Christ.
Have you read Isaiah 1? Where does it talk about, or even hint at "Judaizers"?
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
12,757
1,171
113
#15
But isn't
Christianity about eternal truths, meaning forever and without time limitations? And isn't the Lord's instructions to us also eternal, so yesterday's instructions not to be a judaizer are as valid today as they ever were?

Scripture tells us that from the beginning of time there was no forgiveness without blood, the symbolic blood of Christ before
Christ came as a man and was crucified. God is eternal.
Yes symbolic, not literal blood. Literal blood must be poured out at the foot of the altar. It is shown in various parables. Symbolically spiritual life was given in jeopardy of ones own spirit life using literal blood as a symbol .. the literal blood returns to the dust from where it was formed of.

Corrupted blood is used a metaphor to represent unseen life of the Spirit. .

The life of the flesh is in the blood but that life is unseen, spiritual. . not of the literal blood..

Blood is not the life. Spirit is.

Leviticus 17:14 For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off.


Deuteronomy 12:23 Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: for the blood is the life; and thou mayest not eat the life with the flesh.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
12,757
1,171
113
#16
Have you read Isaiah 1? Where does it talk about, or even hint at "Judaizers"?
I think when we or if we mix faith, the unseen work of God in what is revealed, then the mystery can become clearer.

The rebuke is directed at the "Judaizers" verse 2

Isaiah1: 2 Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the Lord hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me.

Isaiah1: 23 Thy princes are rebellious, and companions of thieves: every one loveth gifts, and followeth after rewards: they judge not the fatherless, neither doth the cause of the widow come unto them.

They followed not after the religion that God approves of caring for the widows who as new creatures had become the chaste virgin bride of Christ the church And the fatherless those who do not have God as their heavenly Father

James 1:27 Pure "religion" and undefiled before God and the "Father" is this, To visit the "fatherless" and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

The building up of the saints. Caring for each other of the same family.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
2,064
614
113
#17
Where in Scripture are you told that?
Isaiah 1:13 Stop bringing meaningless offerings! Your incense is detestable to me. New Moons, Sabbaths and convocations— I cannot bear your worthless assemblies.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
2,064
614
113
#18
Yes symbolic, not literal blood. Literal blood must be poured out at the foot of the altar. It is shown in various parables. Symbolically spiritual life was given in jeopardy of ones own spirit life using literal blood as a symbol .. the literal blood returns to the dust from where it was formed of.

Corrupted blood is used a metaphor to represent unseen life of the Spirit. .

The life of the flesh is in the blood but that life is unseen, spiritual. . not of the literal blood..

Blood is not the life. Spirit is.

Leviticus 17:14 For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off.


Deuteronomy 12:23 Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: for the blood is the life; and thou mayest not eat the life with the flesh.
Are you saying that God did not use symbols?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
12,390
6,539
113
#19
I think when we or if we mix faith, the unseen work of God in what is revealed, then the mystery can become clearer.

The rebuke is directed at the "Judaizers" verse 2

Isaiah1: 2 Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the Lord hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me.
No, it isn't. The rebuke is against rebellious Israel. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Judaizers. Mixing faith has nothing to do with it either.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
12,390
6,539
113
#20
Isaiah 1:13 Stop bringing meaningless offerings! Your incense is detestable to me. New Moons, Sabbaths and convocations— I cannot bear your worthless assemblies.
You made the assertion, "in that chapter [Isaiah 1] it speaks of God hating meaningless offerings which is what the judaezers do."

I asked you, "Where in Scripture are you told that?" meaning, "Where in Scripture are you told that the Judaizers were bringing meaningless offerings?"

Isaiah 1:13 does not tell anyone that the Judaizers were bringing meaningless offerings.

So, once again, which verse tells you that?