Why does Jesus hate....lawyers?

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Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#21
I think Jesus did hate, but then his hate isnt like our petty hatreds and is not personal but according to what people did.

What did the lawyers do that was so bad? Jesus said they built sepulchre (tombs) of the prophets and didnt lift a finger to help anyone, just told others they were wrong.

Jesus also hated the deeds of the nicolations. It isnt said what the Nicolaitians did in scripture that was so bad though.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#22
I once applied to work in a law library, which was under the umbrella of the law society that acted as an ombudsman for lawyers ie. it regulated what lawyers did cos they had to be accountable too.

They couldnt just practise law and not follow it themselves.
Politicans change the laws and often bend them to suit themselves. The only way of regulating politicians is to vote them out of office, but problem is in my country (nz) they can still get in through the party list.

In China they dont really have a justice or legal system. So if you do something against the rules or accidently break the rules you have no redress really mostly what happens is people end up bribing the officials. Otherwise you can be thrown in jail for any petty offence and be made to do hard labour.

But thing is with many lawyers since they charge for their services many rich people get the best lawyers they can find and there are some who are willing to lie or twist the truth for them. The poor dont get defended as much because the lawyers dont get paid as much as they would for a rich person.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#23
In nz the legal system isnt always the best there have been injustices through misjudments by those in power who could do something but didnt. People can get away with stuff because they are powerful, imfluential or rich and foreign.

Some examples Erebus and Pike River Mine. kim dot com.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#24
The quick answer is that Christian women must cover their heads and hide their hair during worship. This has spiritual significance which is rarely taught or explained.
Disagree

Paul preached grace and peace not new laws

Hey you guys, I have a quick question.

I could start another thread but I thought I'd ask here.

Any thoughts on this verse interpretations?

But every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying disgraces her head, for she is one and the same as the woman whose head is shaved.
1 Corinthians 11:5 NASB
This passage must be understood within context and Paul was definitely not telling woman to cover their heads as in using a physical cloth.
 
Apr 15, 2017
2,867
653
113
#25
He really didnt like them, they were in the same category as Pharisees and scribes.

I find it interesting that, when he was arrested, no lawyer came to defend him. Probably they would only do it if they got paid a handsome sum.

This seems kinda weird given that in some circles, lawyers are highly respected and a profession that many people seem to want aspire to?! And it seems half of them decide they dont want to be lawyers after a while and become politicians. The others just go into writing crime novels.

what kind of person really wants to grow up to be...a lawyer? Are there christian lawyers? If so I have never encountered any, and I meet people of all types at church.
The thing with doctors is they really cannot cut corners, and have to tell it like it is, for they are dealing with physical problems of people, although they could lie like a mechanic that will lie to people that such things are needed for their automobile, but might not be true, which doctors for the most part would be on the level.

And politicians will lie about certain things, especially when it is time to be elected, and seem like they are only interested in exalting themselves in their position than to do what is right, and might take money that does not belong to them.

Judges can be bribed, side with a lawyer they like so the person that is with them gets off the hook.

Police can be bribed, and although it is good for the majority of what they do among a lot of them, they appear to not all uphold the law, for how many are actually going to bust grandma, and grandpa, and mom and dad, and relatives, and friends, but they will show them favor in their speeding, and drug use, and stealing, although some may still bust them if it is for a more serious offense.

But all police appear to be crooked for they bust people that do something wrong, while letting off dear sweet grandma who did the same, and lovable brother who has cocaine on him, so in that case they do not uphold the law like they should.

For you know that they will have to let those people off the hook lest they do not want anybody to associate with them, and they care about them too much to bust them.

Seeking no truth, winning is all, appears to be the case for lawyers, for they seem to not care if the person is actually guilty in the case of defense, and innocent in the case of prosecuting, but it seems like it is a game that they are trying to defend, and prosecute, regardless of the situation, although it might be rare that some will do what is right, but then they care about their record of wins.

Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

1Co 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.

Not many people are called that have certain positions in society, for their heart condition is not right, for they care too much about exalting themselves above other people, and thinking they are something special instead of being humble.

All have sinned and come short of the glory of God, but some were not as bad as others when in the world so they are called, but some exalt themselves too much above other people, and are arrogant to be called.

Luk 7:29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
Luk 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

Luk 11:46 And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.

Luk 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Joh 12:41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.
Joh 12:42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:
Joh 12:43 For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

Luk 11:43 Woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye love the uppermost seats in the synagogues, and greetings in the markets.

Mat 6:2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Mat 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Mat 6:16 Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

The Pharisees, and Sadducees, and scribes, and lawyers, liked to exalt themselves too much above other people, and were arrogant thinking themselves better than the common person, and wanted to give glory to themselves.

So they have their reward, and it is according to the course of this world.

1Co 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.

The lawyers must of fit in to this category going hand in hand with the Pharisees in their exalting themselves in their high positions in society.

And how do we view lawyers today, for they appear to be more of an exalting nature than those that are a doctor, or business person.

Seeking no truth, winning is all, and they will clutch at straws, and come up with anything to win their case.

For once they get the case they do not sit down, and try to figure out if the person is innocent when prosecuting, but they try to find ways that the person is guilty, and will use anything to try to prove it, and have no care whether they are innocent or not.

And once they get the case they do not sit down, and try to figure out if the person is guilty when defending, but they will try to find ways that the person is innocent, and will use anything to try to prove it, and have no care whether they are guilty or not.

Which I will not say all, but many will do it if not for the vast amount of money alone, but to see if they can do it, win the case out of arrogance, and will think it is their job regardless of guilty, or innocent, which would make it a flawed system, but for the most part would work good, but they will tend to clutch at straws, and may even falsify things.

Which is why many think they are blood sucking leaches, and crooked, and dishonest.

Whenever there is 2 opposing forces going against each other to win, and be on top, there will be dishonesty, crookedness, arrogance, and lies, to come out on top, and they will clutch at straws, and come up with any little thing they can to win, even lying, and come as close as they can to the truth to try to make it seem as if it is not a lie, so they can win.

The devil uses that tactic to try to cause people to not believe the truth by making it seem as close to the truth as possible, but not really the truth, and then if they take the bait the lies will become more perverted, and farther from the truth as time goes on following the pattern of the first lie as it went along that line of lie.

The devil is using that tactic with the new age movement that has a false interpretation of the Bible that the world will one day accept, and will pave the way to the beast kingdom, and the New Age Christ, for the devil could never deceive the world unless there is a false interpretation of the Bible, and there would never be a false interpretation of the Bible to that extreme that the world accepted if God did not let them have their way to cause the wicked to rebel against Him so He can put them down.

And evolution is the deception, and it gets worse in falsehood, and lies, as time goes by, for it is subtle at first, and then gets worse, for when evolution first came out, and the beliefs about it, are not the same as they are today with the beliefs about it, for now people are not done evolving, but are still evolving to be greater, and spiritual, in the future, and be like the man Jesus that evolved.

Fighting verbally is like a boxing match with jabs, uppercuts, right hooks, left crosses, flurries, and the knockout punch, as they use different tactics, and angles to win the fight.

When people argue it is like that as they come forth with their initial statement on each side, such as a husband and wife that fights, but if it does not pan out, they will word it differently, come up with little things, clutch at straws, even make not that much sense at times, to support their side, and be on top.

And will keep going back and forth, such as we see on Christianchat to where hardly anybody changes their minds, but keep going back and forth, as they deliver blow after blow of jabs, uppercuts, right hooks, left crosses, flurries, and going for the knockout punch, as they use different tactics, and angles to win the fight.

All the while one side has to be ignoring scriptures for there cannot be 2 opposing forces that are both right.

If they do it among the people that claim the Bible is true, and claim Jesus, you know for sure they will do it in the world among the lawyers with supposedly lower morals.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,675
240
63
#26
He really didnt like them, they were in the same category as Pharisees and scribes.

I find it interesting that, when he was arrested, no lawyer came to defend him. Probably they would only do it if they got paid a handsome sum.

This seems kinda weird given that in some circles, lawyers are highly respected and a profession that many people seem to want aspire to?! And it seems half of them decide they dont want to be lawyers after a while and become politicians. The others just go into writing crime novels.

what kind of person really wants to grow up to be...a lawyer? Are there christian lawyers? If so I have never encountered any, and I meet people of all types at church.
I think you are being a little unfair;

Few, if any, of all disciplines came to the support of Christ.
Are they to be equally blamed?
What about the close followers of Christ...they seemed to be scarce also.
How about the mass followers...not apparent in support either when Christ was in need.

Christs' sacrifice on the cross was decreed by G-d. Therefore, there was no support of His destiny.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,497
12,954
113
#27
It is never a good idea for Christians to disagree with THE HOLY SPIRIT. Either the whole Bible is the words of the Holy Spirit (given through men) or it is not. But you cannot have it both ways.
Paul preached grace and peace not new laws
The Holy Spirit -- through Paul -- was teaching Christians spiritual principles under Christ. Not anything else.
This passage must be understood within context and Paul was definitely not telling woman to cover their heads as in using a physical cloth.
Now you are simply CONTRADICTING Paul and the Holy Spirit. The plain language (and teaching) of that passage (16 verses of Scripture) is that:

DURING WORSHIP CHRISTIAN WOMEN MUST COVER THEIR HEADS AND THEIR HAIR.

We could go into a complete exposition of that passage, and an honest exposition would show that this was to be the practice in all Christian churches. And to this day, there are many Christian women worldwide who cover their heads during worship.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#28
It is never a good idea for Christians to disagree with THE HOLY SPIRIT. Either the whole Bible is the words of the Holy Spirit (given through men) or it is not. But you cannot have it both ways.

The Holy Spirit -- through Paul -- was teaching Christians spiritual principles under Christ. Not anything else.

Now you are simply CONTRADICTING Paul and the Holy Spirit. The plain language (and teaching) of that passage (16 verses of Scripture) is that:

DURING WORSHIP CHRISTIAN WOMEN MUST COVER THEIR HEADS AND THEIR HAIR.

We could go into a complete exposition of that passage, and an honest exposition would show that this was to be the practice in all Christian churches. And to this day, there are many Christian women worldwide who cover their heads during worship.
Not disagreeing with the Holy Spirit, I am disagreeing with the application of this scripture.

Plain language is not always how to read the scripture especially when there is a chiastic structure in place.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,177
113
#29
The thing with doctors is they really cannot cut corners, and have to tell it like it is, for they are dealing with physical problems of people, although they could lie like a mechanic that will lie to people that such things are needed for their automobile, but might not be true, which doctors for the most part would be on the level.

And politicians will lie about certain things, especially when it is time to be elected, and seem like they are only interested in exalting themselves in their position than to do what is right, and might take money that does not belong to them.

Judges can be bribed, side with a lawyer they like so the person that is with them gets off the hook.

Police can be bribed, and although it is good for the majority of what they do among a lot of them, they appear to not all uphold the law, for how many are actually going to bust grandma, and grandpa, and mom and dad, and relatives, and friends, but they will show them favor in their speeding, and drug use, and stealing, although some may still bust them if it is for a more serious offense.

But all police appear to be crooked for they bust people that do something wrong, while letting off dear sweet grandma who did the same, and lovable brother who has cocaine on him, so in that case they do not uphold the law like they should.

For you know that they will have to let those people off the hook lest they do not want anybody to associate with them, and they care about them too much to bust them.

Seeking no truth, winning is all, appears to be the case for lawyers, for they seem to not care if the person is actually guilty in the case of defense, and innocent in the case of prosecuting, but it seems like it is a game that they are trying to defend, and prosecute, regardless of the situation, although it might be rare that some will do what is right, but then they care about their record of wins.

Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

1Co 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.

Not many people are called that have certain positions in society, for their heart condition is not right, for they care too much about exalting themselves above other people, and thinking they are something special instead of being humble.

All have sinned and come short of the glory of God, but some were not as bad as others when in the world so they are called, but some exalt themselves too much above other people, and are arrogant to be called.

Luk 7:29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
Luk 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

Luk 11:46 And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.

Luk 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Joh 12:41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.
Joh 12:42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:
Joh 12:43 For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

Luk 11:43 Woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye love the uppermost seats in the synagogues, and greetings in the markets.

Mat 6:2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Mat 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Mat 6:16 Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

The Pharisees, and Sadducees, and scribes, and lawyers, liked to exalt themselves too much above other people, and were arrogant thinking themselves better than the common person, and wanted to give glory to themselves.

So they have their reward, and it is according to the course of this world.

1Co 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.

The lawyers must of fit in to this category going hand in hand with the Pharisees in their exalting themselves in their high positions in society.

And how do we view lawyers today, for they appear to be more of an exalting nature than those that are a doctor, or business person.

Seeking no truth, winning is all, and they will clutch at straws, and come up with anything to win their case.

For once they get the case they do not sit down, and try to figure out if the person is innocent when prosecuting, but they try to find ways that the person is guilty, and will use anything to try to prove it, and have no care whether they are innocent or not.

And once they get the case they do not sit down, and try to figure out if the person is guilty when defending, but they will try to find ways that the person is innocent, and will use anything to try to prove it, and have no care whether they are guilty or not.

Which I will not say all, but many will do it if not for the vast amount of money alone, but to see if they can do it, win the case out of arrogance, and will think it is their job regardless of guilty, or innocent, which would make it a flawed system, but for the most part would work good, but they will tend to clutch at straws, and may even falsify things.

Which is why many think they are blood sucking leaches, and crooked, and dishonest.

Whenever there is 2 opposing forces going against each other to win, and be on top, there will be dishonesty, crookedness, arrogance, and lies, to come out on top, and they will clutch at straws, and come up with any little thing they can to win, even lying, and come as close as they can to the truth to try to make it seem as if it is not a lie, so they can win.

The devil uses that tactic to try to cause people to not believe the truth by making it seem as close to the truth as possible, but not really the truth, and then if they take the bait the lies will become more perverted, and farther from the truth as time goes on following the pattern of the first lie as it went along that line of lie.

The devil is using that tactic with the new age movement that has a false interpretation of the Bible that the world will one day accept, and will pave the way to the beast kingdom, and the New Age Christ, for the devil could never deceive the world unless there is a false interpretation of the Bible, and there would never be a false interpretation of the Bible to that extreme that the world accepted if God did not let them have their way to cause the wicked to rebel against Him so He can put them down.

And evolution is the deception, and it gets worse in falsehood, and lies, as time goes by, for it is subtle at first, and then gets worse, for when evolution first came out, and the beliefs about it, are not the same as they are today with the beliefs about it, for now people are not done evolving, but are still evolving to be greater, and spiritual, in the future, and be like the man Jesus that evolved.

Fighting verbally is like a boxing match with jabs, uppercuts, right hooks, left crosses, flurries, and the knockout punch, as they use different tactics, and angles to win the fight.

When people argue it is like that as they come forth with their initial statement on each side, such as a husband and wife that fights, but if it does not pan out, they will word it differently, come up with little things, clutch at straws, even make not that much sense at times, to support their side, and be on top.

And will keep going back and forth, such as we see on Christianchat to where hardly anybody changes their minds, but keep going back and forth, as they deliver blow after blow of jabs, uppercuts, right hooks, left crosses, flurries, and going for the knockout punch, as they use different tactics, and angles to win the fight.

All the while one side has to be ignoring scriptures for there cannot be 2 opposing forces that are both right.

If they do it among the people that claim the Bible is true, and claim Jesus, you know for sure they will do it in the world among the lawyers with supposedly lower morals.
Hmm when would there be an instance of say two christian lawyers, one prosecuting and one defending? Would the outcome be well both parties are guilty we are all sinners.

Would the holy spirit be advocating? For the innocent party if one was truly innocent.
But then isnt satan the accuser of the brethren.
There shouldnt be any x vs x amongst believers though, that it gets to the high court.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
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#30
Also theres a jury. The juries has to be unanimous. Juries are traditionally 12 people, mostly unlearned just as the 12 disciples were.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
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#31
The juries had to be witnessing the evidence. They arent called to be the defence they have to weigh it up and make up their own minds.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,177
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#32
Where does the Bible say that Jesus hates lawyers?
For God so loved all lawyers, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whatsoever lawyer believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
He said woe unto you lawyers in Luke 11:52-56

When Jesus says woe he doesnt mean he likes you or your behaviour. When Jesus says woe to pharisees, scribes and unbelieving people in towns, it means hes pretty sure they are going to perish.
 

JohnRH

Junior Member
Mar 5, 2018
534
259
63
#33
He said woe unto you lawyers in Luke 11:52-56

When Jesus says woe he doesnt mean he likes you or your behaviour. When Jesus says woe to pharisees, scribes and unbelieving people in towns, it means hes pretty sure they are going to perish.
There's no such thing as a believing person who didn't start out being an unbelieving person.
He also said "woe unto you hypocrites" (vs. 44). Have you ever met a human being who's not been a hypocrite?
He also said "woe unto you, Pharisees" (vs. 42). The apostle Paul had been a Pharisee (Acts 26:5, Philippians 3:5). Did he perish?

Titus 3:13 Bring Zenas the lawyer and Apollos on their journey diligently, that nothing be wanting unto them.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
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#34
There's no such thing as a believing person who didn't start out being an unbelieving person.
He also said "woe unto you hypocrites" (vs. 44). Have you ever met a human being who's not been a hypocrite?
He also said "woe unto you, Pharisees" (vs. 42). The apostle Paul had been a Pharisee (Acts 26:5, Philippians 3:5). Did he perish?

Titus 3:13 Bring Zenas the lawyer and Apollos on their journey diligently, that nothing be wanting unto them.
Jesus was meaning the lawyers who were with him at the time. He wasnt meaning lawyers the world over.

They were pretty crooked. Im sure there are saved lawyers now. But the lawyers actually self identified as hypocrites in that chapter, they were going oh he means us too.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
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#35
Jesus didnt like tax collectors either, but zaccheus got saved. THere is hope. Also for publicans and prositutes. mary magdalene anyone? Im sure there are similar despised professions these days. Telemarketers. Used car salesmen, politicians....
 

JohnRH

Junior Member
Mar 5, 2018
534
259
63
#36
Jesus didnt like tax collectors either, but zaccheus got saved. THere is hope. Also for publicans and prositutes. mary magdalene anyone? Im sure there are similar despised professions these days. Telemarketers. Used car salesmen, politicians....
I'm certainly open to new lawyer jokes. :)