Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

[BeyondET]

Except you aren't using my thoughts or words to say that. I didn't say that. I didn't say He chose me because I'm special. I said He chose me - the rest you attached on as if I believe it, but I don't.

But what I said we should change it too IS based on what you have said. You've been saved by grace through your choice.
Even though it says that faith was not of yourself.

I know this is difficult stuff to struggle with together. I appreciate your honest speech and that you don't get angry.

This is because you don't understand what it is saying or your just making it fit your view, that verse is about Grace a gift from God, for any person through faith aka belief. I wonder how this got so confusing to folks..

Eph 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God

LPT:
For it is by grace you have been saved and this is not from yourselves, through faith it is the gift of God.

 

[1ofthem]

Except you aren't using my thoughts or words to say that. I didn't say that. I didn't say He chose me because I'm special. I said He chose me - the rest you attached on as if I believe it, but I don't.

But what I said we should change it too IS based on what you have said. You've been saved by grace through your choice.
Even though it says that faith was not of yourself.

I know this is difficult stuff to struggle with together. I appreciate your honest speech and that you don't get angry.

You don't have to use those exact words...but if you say he chose you but there are some that he does not choose, what else does that mean. You may not even see it yourself, but that is exactly what is being relayed to others.

Predestination is a dangerous doctrine. You have some thinking they are elect, but then whether they know it or not, they cast a doubt to others by saying that God only chooses to save certain folks.


Grace is granted through faith. Grace is a gift from God. You have to take that first step of faith, though. He won't make anyone serve him, as well as he won't cast anyone away who believes in him and truly wants to be saved.

 

[1ofthem]

The problem here is simple. Those who have not found out how truly lost man
is, in his thinking, his logic, his conclusions, his morality, his love, his ideas for joy
and dislike of sadness, then you choosing God is really possible.

When you know everything we are and do and think is distorted and in rebellion,
then you begin to see how impossible it is for anyone to grasp who Jesus is without
His touch. And this is all we testify to, not that we understand or the why, but
that our Lord is glorious and we praise Him.

The fact you do not know this, is just your reality, I just testify there is more than
you can imagine involved. God bless you.

Revelation 3:20
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.


We have to open the door...do we not? He didn't say behold, I'm just going to open the door and come in to you...did he?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

This is because you don't understand what it is saying or your just making it fit your view, that verse is about Grace a gift from God, for any person through faith aka belief. I wonder how this got so confusing to folks..

Eph 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God

LPT:
For it is by grace you have been saved and this is not from yourselves, through faith it is the gift of God.

What is the LPT translation? I've never seen it I don't think.

 

[valiant]

You don't have to use those exact words...but if you say he chose you but there are some that he does not choose, what else does that mean. You may not even see it yourself, but that is exactly what is being relayed to others.

Predestination is a dangerous doctrine. You have some thinking they are elect, but then whether they know it or not, they cast a doubt to others by saying that God only chooses to save certain folks.


Grace is granted through faith. Grace is a gift from God. You have to take that first step of faith, though. He won't make anyone serve him, as well as he won't cast anyone away who believes in him and truly wants to be saved.

listen Paul to 1ofthem. He knows you got it all wrong in Romans 9, Ephesians 1, 2 Tim 1.9. etc to say nothing of you Peter in 1 Pet 1.2. HE knows 'the truth'. He says so.

Grace is not granted as a gift. It is not something God has given. It is the grace of God acting to save received through faith. These people who get mixed up between the Giver and His gifts.

The grace of our Lord Christ parallels the love of God. It is His underserved love and favour. It is not some gift that He has give us.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

This is because you don't understand what it is saying or your just making it fit your view, that verse is about Grace a gift from God, for any person through faith aka belief. I wonder how this got so confusing to folks..

Eph 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God

LPT:
For it is by grace you have been saved and this is not from yourselves, through faith it is the gift of God.

What view am I trying to make it fit? The view that I have nothing good that God didn't give me?

 

[wwjd_kilden]

listen Paul to 1ofthem. He knows you got it all wrong in Romans 9, Ephesians 1, 2 Tim 1.9. etc to say nothing of you Peter in 1 Pet 1.2. HE knows 'the truth'. He says so.

Grace is not granted as a gift. It is not something God has given. It is the grace of God acting to save received through faith. These people who get mixed up between the Giver and His gifts.

The grace of our Lord Christ parallels the love of God. It is His underserved love and favour. It is not some gift that He has give us.

Excuse me? What bible do you have?????


[SUP]8[/SUP]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Not of works, lest any man should boast

 

[valiant]

Originally Posted by BeyondET

This is because you don't understand what it is saying or your just making it fit your view, that verse is about Grace a gift from God, for any person through faith aka belief. I wonder how this got so confusing to folks..

Eph 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God

LPT:
For it is by grace you have been saved and this is not from yourselves, through faith it is the gift of God.

Grace is NOT a gift from God except in its secondary meaning. It is the grace (unmerited favour) of God the giver that has saved us. Not some particular gift.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Once again, I have really enjoyed talking with all of you today! It cheers and encourages me when we can speak together, in spite of some of our differing understandings, without bitterness and with meekness toward each other.
Hate to leave you guys, as always.

 

[1ofthem]

listen Paul to 1ofthem. He knows you got it all wrong in Romans 9, Ephesians 1, 2 Tim 1.9. etc to say nothing of you Peter in 1 Pet 1.2. HE knows 'the truth'. He says so.

Grace is not granted as a gift. It is not something God has given. It is the grace of God acting to save received through faith. These people who get mixed up between the Giver and His gifts.

The grace of our Lord Christ parallels the love of God. It is His underserved love and favour. It is not some gift that He has give us.

Hmm, well excuse me for my folly then???...but I was reading Ephesians 2 :8 which specifically says that it is the gift of God.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Grace is NOT a gift from God except in its secondary meaning. It is the grace (unmerited favour) of God the giver.

I agree. Gods' kindness is just who He is.
Faith is a great gift and the testing and trying of it so it comes out pure is also a great gift, although we do our share of complaining while in the trials.

 

[valiant]

Originally Posted by valiant

listen Paul to 1ofthem. He knows you got it all wrong in Romans 9, Ephesians 1, 2 Tim 1.9. etc to say nothing of you Peter in 1 Pet 1.2. HE knows 'the truth'. He says so.

Grace is not granted as a gift. It is not something God has given. It is the grace of God acting to save received through faith. These people who get mixed up between the Giver and His gifts.

The grace of our Lord Christ parallels the love of God. It is His underserved love and favour. It is not some gift that He has give us.

Hmm, well excuse me for my folly then???...but I was reading Ephesians 2 :8 which specifically says that it is the gift of God.

Ephesians 2,8 says SALVATION is the gift of God, by His grace received through faith. Grace is too far from gift to be directly connected with it.

 

[BeyondET]

What is the LPT translation? I've never seen it I don't think.

It is my own..

You aren't the only one who has thought of faith as a gift, No doubt down the line I can quote many folks from the bible, folks have long struggled with faith and probably have said O man I just can't muster that kind of faith in that, I'll just wait until God grants me that belief.

Look at Peter he had it for a moment then he started looking at the stormy weather oops,, help me help me I just fell in. Jesus didn't just say it's ok Peter here's your faith back to stand back up on the water, No not at all Peter had to be helped back into the boat.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

It is my own..

You aren't the only one who has thought of faith as a gift, No doubt down the line I can quote many folks from the bible, folks have long struggled with faith and probably have said O man I just can't muster that kind of faith in that, I'll just wait until God grants me that belief.

Look at Peter he had it for a moment then he started looking at the stormy weather oops,, help me help me I just fell in. Jesus didn't just say it's ok Peter here's your faith back to stand back up on the water, No not at all Peter had to be helped back into the boat.

You lost me here.

 

[Stephen63]

2 Peter 3:9
​

New International Version
The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

New Living Translation
The Lord isn't really being slow about his promise, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent.

English Standard Version
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

Berean Study Bible
The Lord is not slow to fulfill His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

Berean Literal Bible
The Lord does not delay the promise, as some esteem slowness, but is patient toward you, not willing for any to perish, but all to come to repentance.

New American Standard Bible
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

1 Timothy 2:4
​

New International Version
who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
New Living Translation
who wants everyone to be saved and to understand the truth.

English Standard Version
who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Berean Study Bible
who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Berean Literal Bible
who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

New American Standard Bible
who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Wouldn't it be nice if folks read their Bibles & sought God's will above their own selfish desires on doctrine?

 

[BeyondET]

Grace is NOT a gift from God except in its secondary meaning. It is the grace (unmerited favour) of God the giver that has saved us. Not some particular gift.

God had chosen to give His grace "a gift" not by what man has done but because of God's mercy for man. Jesus was a similar gift to mankind, God's mercy that there shall be another way other than death. Man didn't earn salvation, salvation came to man.

 

[BeyondET]

What view am I trying to make it fit? The view that I have nothing good that God didn't give me?

Well what I was saying is that I probably worded it wrong lol... but that verse in my opinion should have had "through faith" after the yourselves statement. IMO the orginal doesn't even flow at all, it's like the "through faith" was plopped down in the middle of the sentence.

of coarse I didn't mean you have nothing good, why would you think that way.

 

[BeyondET]

You lost me here.

Sorry...

 

[valiant]

Hmm, well excuse me for my folly then???...but I was reading Ephesians 2 :8 which specifically says that it is the gift of God.

charis (grace) is feminine------- touto (that) is neuter, therefore the one cannot refer to the other as touto always follows the gender of the noun to which it refers,.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Well what I was saying is that I probably worded it wrong lol... but that verse in my opinion should have had "through faith" after the yourselves statement. IMO the orginal doesn't even flow at all, it's like the "through faith" was plopped down in the middle of the sentence.

of coarse I didn't mean you have nothing good, why would you think that way.

I meant I have nothing good that God didn't give me. So I wondered what view you thought I was trying to "fit it into" as you said - the view that I have nothing good that God Himself didn't give me?