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Hmm, it's not a lie...I disagree with you. You have also been shown scripture against it, yet you choose to believe what you will. In my opinion you have chosen to believe scripture says what you want it to say and have ran with it, but because I don't believe that is what it means... you call me a liar. Now I have not called you a liar, I have said I disagree with you. No where have I said you have to believe as I do, or that would be bullying. Now wouldn't it?
For you are a people holy to the Lord your God. The Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.
It was not because you were more in number than any other people that the Lord set his love on you and chose you, for you were the fewest of all peoples,
but it is because the Lord loves you and is keeping the oath that he swore to your fathers, that the Lord has brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt. (Deut 7:6-8)
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. (Jn 6:44)
that Greek word for "can" is a cognate of the word "dunamis". we get our word dynamite from it.
it implies power; ability
it doesn't say "no one may come" it says no one is able, no one has the power to come unless the Father draws him.
"Salvation is of the Lord", His work from beginning to end.
simples.
It was not because you were more in number than any other people that the Lord set his love on you and chose you, for you were the fewest of all peoples,
but it is because the Lord loves you and is keeping the oath that he swore to your fathers, that the Lord has brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt. (Deut 7:6-8)
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. (Jn 6:44)
that Greek word for "can" is a cognate of the word "dunamis". we get our word dynamite from it.
it implies power; ability
it doesn't say "no one may come" it says no one is able, no one has the power to come unless the Father draws him.
"Salvation is of the Lord", His work from beginning to end.
simples.
Checkers is a cool game, but appears that I am in a game of twister right now...because honestly, I don't know how to respond to you with out offending you or having my words twisted in to something that I do not mean.
I think I am going to have to end this conversation with you because it is going nowhere fast. We disagree and that's all I can say about it, but anyhow God bless you.
I think I am going to have to end this conversation with you because it is going nowhere fast. We disagree and that's all I can say about it, but anyhow God bless you.
BUT "choose Jesus" IS work-based salvation.
LOL...Good one! I loved it!.....Yes....I agree - In the context that Jesus said of it.
John 6:28-29 (NASB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] Therefore they said to Him, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?"
[SUP]29 [/SUP] Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."
I disagree. There is something I can do about going to heaven. (Although heaven is just the end of my trip, and I'm enjoying the trip itself too.)
God loves me enough to die for me. He lives! I'm psyched! I'm freed from what I deserve!
Shout it from the rooftops! God is!
God loves me enough to die for me. He lives! I'm psyched! I'm freed from what I deserve!
Shout it from the rooftops! God is!
I'm elect and you are not? Plus what about the person who is elect but doesn't seek the kingdom of God? Will they be forced to enter heaven against their will?
I think we must shout John 3:16 that whosoever will may come.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Jesus said you will know them by their fruits,and the more Christlike they are,which is to represent goodness,and proclaim that,I would say the more in the truth they are.
I seen people claim to be part of the elect,chosen,but their lifestyle in acting like Christ was not as good as some that did not believe God chooses who will be saved,and not saved,so how can that be if they are chosen and elect.
For you will know them by their fruits,and many are called but few are chosen.
People that say we can abstain from sin by the Spirit,have a better success rate of acting like Christ,than those who say we cannot abstain from sin,for no matter how hard they try it will get them,as if they are being forced to sin,and they hold unto sin which is dangerous,and they lost the battle with that attitude,all the while saying we are chosen,and elect.
I seen people claim to be part of the elect,chosen,but their lifestyle in acting like Christ was not as good as some that did not believe God chooses who will be saved,and not saved,so how can that be if they are chosen and elect.
For you will know them by their fruits,and many are called but few are chosen.
People that say we can abstain from sin by the Spirit,have a better success rate of acting like Christ,than those who say we cannot abstain from sin,for no matter how hard they try it will get them,as if they are being forced to sin,and they hold unto sin which is dangerous,and they lost the battle with that attitude,all the while saying we are chosen,and elect.
Hello Ash or whatever your real name is.....Maybe Ashley.. Anyways, I can see how believing in predestination could be a comfort but what about the many passages like this one. Luke 13:34 Jerusalem, Jerusalem. you who kills the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I longed to gather your children together as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. It sure seems to me that the Bible teaches free will. How could we have a love relationship with Christ or anybody else with out the ability to chose?
Anyways, I can see how believing in predestination could be a comfort but what about the many passages like this one. Luke 13:34 Jerusalem, Jerusalem. you who kills the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I longed to gather your children together as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. It sure seems to me that the Bible teaches free will. How could we have a love relationship with Christ or anybody else with out the ability to chose?
Hello Ash or whatever your real name is.....Maybe Ashley.. Anyways, I can see how believing in predestination could be a comfort but what about the many passages like this one. Luke 13:34 Jerusalem, Jerusalem. you who kills the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I longed to gather your children together as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. It sure seems to me that the Bible teaches free will. How could we have a love relationship with Christ or anybody else with out the ability to chose?
Anyways, I can see how believing in predestination could be a comfort but what about the many passages like this one. Luke 13:34 Jerusalem, Jerusalem. you who kills the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I longed to gather your children together as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. It sure seems to me that the Bible teaches free will. How could we have a love relationship with Christ or anybody else with out the ability to chose?
As far as free will, that is a misnomer. Free will implies that each and every man will will to do according to his nature, which is sinful, unless in Christ. This does not mean that a person cannot do something moral, because that does not mean their will is free either in the right sense. This is why man takes in the nutriments that are according to his character. No man is "free" outside of Christ; John 8:35.