Why? I wonder how many will answer?

Jon4TheCross · Dec 21, 2012

Why are almost all that I talk to that claim to be the Everlasting Priesthood (Christians) opposed to the idea of all things commmon, and complete equality, and suffering a bit more so another can suffer less?

I don't expect to get many answers founded with scripture, but if anyone can give an answer from scripture for the reason why you aren't taking action to support unlimited fruitfulness (equality and all things common with no respect of persons in unity with votiing)?

If anyone does want to take action, then the question is:

What is stopping us from helping others in this way (complete equality, meaning nobody has a better quality of life than anyone else)?

weakness · Dec 21, 2012

Good Question! I think deep down everybody already knows the answer!" Unless a man forsake all he has, he cannot be my disciple(student).

weakness · Dec 21, 2012

Just a note; Any one forsaking all as a work of self righteousness will utterly fall and will be of no account, but if the lord Calls you, do not hesitate.for you will see and live the gospel youv only read about in Acts ..... Remember..."not by our own works,But resting in Jesus....Fellowship with him!!

kenisyes · Dec 21, 2012

I've read the OP five times and I am still confused. Are you talking about a way to run the world? Are you talking about relationships in the Body of Christ? Ministry empowerment? I see a contradiction between what I understand as "unlimited fruitfulness" and "one suffering a little more, so the other can suffer less". Unlimited fruitfulness should mean no one has less than they need. I need to understand the question before I can enter into answering it. If everyone did all they could to achieve what you are asking about, what would the final result look like?

RedTent · Dec 21, 2012

I have wondered about this, too. I lived near a Mennonite and also a Hutterite Colony that was based on the principle of equality for all. It did not work.

I and a spiritually mature Mennonite decided to debate this. We met every afternoon for three days. Our conclusion was that what always happened was that soon the colony sorted out so some did most of the work and planning, others did little. This was also true of the Hutterites. It was hard for the leaders to get workers to care for equipment; they felt it was the leader’s responsibility.

When we are let by our Lord, good fruits follow. I see good fruits when marriages are led by God principles, when money is managed used God’s ways for us, when we give up man principles and use God’s. It is a personal decision in how best to follow God’s leading; each is given a different path. You can see this even in how we each are created, we are individuals. We are each to be led by God principles; we are to follow the Holy Spirit. The HS always leads us as scripture says. We are not to follow isms, denominations, or philosophy, but God. God leads each personally, not as a colony.

Ariel82 · Dec 21, 2012

2 Thessalonians 3
10 For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat. 11 For we hear that there are some who walk among you in a disorderly manner, not working at all, but are busybodies. 12 Now those who are such we command and exhort through our Lord Jesus Christ that they work in quietness and eat their own bread.

AgapeSpiritEyes · Dec 21, 2012

Unlimited Spiritual fruits from the Holy Spirit in and through us will like wise be as those of our brethen at the out pouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost as they demonstrated daily in their lives, but the growth of sin in mankind from that time to now and the lack of that dispensation has required a last and the greatest outpouring of the Holy Spirit upon all of the body of Christ today a dispensational promise of which we wait expecting very soon, no legitimate work of the church the body of Christ and each member in particular can preform any genuine works of The Lord Jesus unless it is the Holy Spirit through us. So, we wait for that outpouring upon us to be that glorious bride without spots or wrinkle that the Holy Spirit shall flow through us without limits.

AgapeSpiritEyes · Dec 21, 2012

Jon4TheCross said:

This desire and cry of the heart of mankind whether heard in the conscious or subconscious is to form groups or governments to create utopia on earth, well it can not be done and only can it be done in the spiritual omnipotent Agape of Jesus litterally upon this planet and in our presence.

shrimp · Dec 21, 2012

I was also a little confused what are you talking about work or the "equality" thing? 'cause where I stand is that if you work you can eat and if I were to vote for "equality" then I am supporting the homosexual lifestyle.

Enow · Dec 21, 2012

Ariel82 said:

An important side note:

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

For all of those believers out there that cannot find work in this evil time: do not condemn yourself.

Ecclesiastes 5:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest. 11 I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all. 12 For man also knoweth not his time: as the fishes that are taken in an evil net, and as the birds that are caught in the snare; so are the sons of men snared in an evil time, when it falleth suddenly upon them.

Matthew 6:31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek

for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. 33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. 34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

1 Timothy 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. 6 But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. 8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. 9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. 10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. 11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. 12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses. 13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; 14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Philippians 4:5 Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand. 6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. 7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. 8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. 9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.

PatientSpirit · Dec 21, 2012

Jon4TheCross said:

The answer you seek is simple....... Money! I could provide verses but why? Many still won't listen.

Many here will claim "free will" but where is this exercised? We now live in an age that truly all things can become common. We see it now in music and movies. Books and television. There giving phones away but still more sit on shelves because of money. We can provide housing for every family and person in the world but because of money, the world starve!

Again let's do the math. A lady spends $100 million dollars on a seat she looses! As far as I know, NONE of us here on CC will know what that feels like to even have $100 million to have, let alone WASTE! But how many here can relate to struggling paying a bill $3,000 or less?

This foul system can only do what we allow it to do! Money is AN IMAGINATION!

This is one person who spent $100 M of HER OWN MONEY. What did the other candidates win or lose spend this year? This is why crime has increased! Because we as a people allow this type of thing. They keep us all entertained (even through religion) just long enough to live off of our labor.

Now if I'm a bank. 3 people who represent the world, and I lend between them $100. But I tell them that they must bring me back $120, HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE IF I ONLY PUT OUT $100???

Someone MUST BORROW AGAIN from the bank! The basics repeats itself in a system designed to eventually take someone's possessions like a game of musical chairs. But again only we allow these things. Surely we see these things if one can spend millions on a campaign like chump change while another lose their house over a few thousand dollars!

I can also provide verses to back up everything, but look at it this way. We are unfaithful to eachother in the things we have and can see, none of which we know can go with us! Therefore if it can provide easier living for all, then all should have it freely.

How much crime would you think would happen now, having the technology we have today if everyman had his own home with lights and heat. Running water a tv, cable and a computer. A phone a game system and whatever other gadgetry they so desired for easy living? The world is out of balance and drunk.

A bluray cd can hold a ton of information. Now I'm techno wiz but one bluray game can hold up to atleast 3 regular cds worth of information. AND yet CDs STILL cost less to make than either a cassette or a game cartridge! But how much is charged for them?

Money is our problem. Because the world would rather sell crosses than carry them.

weakness · Dec 21, 2012

kenisyes said:

I didn't see the word voting before I reread. But praise God. It really got me thinking about inequality in the church. The Manna in the wilderness how he that gathered much had nothing over and he that gathered little had no lack. And the beginning of the new testament Church in Acts . That had all things common and had no lack as a body , I've seen so many attempts to lead this life in the natural and with it the inevitable failures. But straight is the way and Few there be that find it. Perhaps the exhortation to walk again in the "first love spoken of in Rev, will over come our fear to dismiss the pattern of good works given us.It reminds me of Paul in Cor4 " Now are ye full,ye are rich, ye have reigned as kings without us: and I would to God that ye did reign , that we might also reign with you. For I think that God has set forth us the apostles last,as it were appointed to death:for we are made a spectical to the world, and to angles,and to men . We are fools for Christs sake,but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak ,but ye are strong; ye are honorable ,but we are despised. Even unto this present hour we both hunger and thirst,and are naked,and are buffeted and have no certain dwelling place.........I write these things not to shame you, but to warn you.For though you have ten thousand instructors in Christ You have not many fathers For in Christ Jesus you have been begotten of the FATHER ...Yes Ken for now there is a gulf between unlimited fruitfulness and having lack. I also think the confusion between the world you speak( for instance socialism) of and the true church will become more unclear as the days go on. : "for the poor you always have with you". But we shall all reign with him, if so be we also suffer with him.We shall be partakers of his resurrection ,if, we also partake of his death. For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us ,so also the consolation. But we had the sentence of death in ourselves that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raises the dead. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels that the power may be of god and not of ourselves. We are troubled on every side but not distressed , perplexed but not in despair. Always bearing about in the body the dying of the lord Jesus that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest (seen) in our body.Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord, that the LIFE also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh. I'm rambling but I like these scriptures .sorry Any way...Danial was told the word of his prophesy was sealed up till the time of the end and knowledge would increase and many would run to and fro.I pray that God would bless us with wisdom to know his will,and do it ,that we could serve him and his with a perfect heart,pleasing to him,resting in Jesus.

Enow · Dec 21, 2012

weakness said:

Another side note:

What Jesus said in Luke 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.... that was Him explaining to the multitude of the cost of discipleship as it will require leaving this world, this life, and their loved ones behind to answer the call of the Bridegroom.

The point of verse 33 in context begins here for what Luke intended to be read with.

Luke 14:15 And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God. 16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:

Then Jesus testified of the excuses people ( believers) will be giving for not attending the supper.

Then Luke reported what Jesus had said to the mulitude, expounding on that parable previously. Note the shift from verse 24 to 25, and yet addressing the excuses given in the previous parable for not attending the Supper.

Luke 14:24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper. 25 And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them, 26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. 27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple. 28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it? 29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him, 30 Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.

So when you read this verse:

Luke 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

Jesus was talking about leaving this world and this life and our loved ones when the Bridegroom comes.

Now to some, it would seem silly that we would not refuse Him that speak from Heaven. Surely we would love Him more than this life? But yet, there is cause to pray to Him for help to leave.

Luke 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Luke 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. 31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. 32 Remember Lot's wife. 33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. 34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

So the forsaking of all that he has is referring to being willing to leave when the Bridegroom comes. That means not loving this life nor a loved one more than Him.

It is not about forsaking all that you have by giving everything to a church or a ministry or to the poor in this life in how we live this life as a disciple, but being His disciples in willing to leave this life to go by His grace and by His help when the Bridegroom comes for the ready bride.

Enow · Dec 21, 2012

Jon4TheCross said:

Limited knowledge & limited power. How can anyone know everything to insure equality on that magnitude? Whom can you trust or what organization can you entrust that to keep?

Sounds like something God can only bring about in His coming 1000 year reign on earth.

I reckon the coming New World Order with their mark of the beast will try to make a go at it, but it is no equality that I want & I hope the Lord will deliver me from this present evil world before that great tribulation comes.

Jon4TheCross · Dec 22, 2012

Thank you all for your input. I guess to better clear up my questions, I'll answer Kenysis regarding what it would look like.

First, there would be parts of the body of Christ which work only in the underlined way, and other parts would do other things of course, but we need the underlined, for sure:

Act 6:1 And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration.
Act 6:2 Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.
Act 6:3 Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.
Act 6:4 But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word.
Act 6:5 And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:
Act 6:6 Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them.

Ok, so there would be some which would do nothing but spend all of their time with God, everyday, undistracted, and completely focused. These are what I consider elders.

One way to unite in the necessities of life, is to simply vote on what we need. This would most likely be each person making a list of what they absolutely need to be content, happy, and in active ministry (of course some can work for money and God at the same time, like a spiritual and physical food cart).

Nobody would ever be alone, because each person would have an accountability partner which would go with them everywhere, and this would help many to overcome sins.

One simple way to do this would be to have one big ol barter fair on a piece of land. Everybody sells their item, everybody is a spiritual food cart at the same time, and daily gatherings could easily take place. If some don't sell what they need, I'm sure others would already be asking that person if they have what they need, or they could tell the elders.

There are many things to work out, but the Hutterites and others that I have looked into, do not understand what the first works and first love is all about. It's about being an example of individual parts of one joined and united body, all working in love at whatever cost it takes.

To be honest, I am working on buying land, because I don't feel the need to ask for help on this. If help was offered, and a group wanted to start voting on how we would even vote, then I would be all for it. The goal is obviously not to own anything, but to have our needs met. I think voting on the neccessities of life is a good place to start, or at minimum it would be very easy to live on the same land, selling our merchandise to the world, and being a spiritual food cart at the same time. It's really not that hard, and of course it's all done willfully, with no obligations to continue (although it would be such a great example for this world to see that real love does exist like it did in the first works and first love of the united parts of this body.

I don't know if that helped to explain what I'm hoping for, but I'm going to die trying, because:

Joh 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

There's no doubt that we could help more people together, and together we can either abound, or suffer, but at least we're doing it together.

1Co 12:25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
1Co 12:26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

Indubitably · Dec 22, 2012

I can only approach this from a spiritual perspective, not a political one.

There can be no such thing as absolute equailty because this is not a Biblical teaching. I lead a ministry that meets the needs of people who are truly hurting and we offfer dozens of ways to assist. So this is my heart. My ministry is foundeed upon the most applicable scripture here:

Mathew 25: 31-46.
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

This speaks for itself. To try to add to this, a poitical prospective, would draw away from the meaning. I believe that this porton shows the value God places on helping those in critical need, materially and spiritually.

If all Christians took these scriptures seriously, there would be few who remain needy. And I have planted several churches that operate on the Acts 2 principles. We break bread, worship, share from scripture and when at all possible, "no one goes home with a need unmet."

I once suffered a tremendous illnes. I had no medical coverage. The bills were $168,000. So to have complete equality, many Christians would have to sell all they have and have nothing left, to pay this bill.The only way of creating true financiial equality is to apply the Robin Hood principle. Oh wait, the US government is aready doing that. Silly me!

kenisyes · Dec 22, 2012

Here are a few Scriptures, and rest assured, I am speaking from experience both as participant and as observer.

First, everyone has a different call (I Cor. 12:5ff) so each needs different things from god. Experience shows we cannot understand what the other call needs until we learn how that call works. What one person needs, another does not understand and feels offended to be asked to provide. Second, we are allowed, encouraged, perhaps even commanded to settle such differences (Matt. 18:15). Yet some things cannot even be expressed adequately in words (Rom 8:26) and others are a burden to think about (Eccl. 1:14 and other places). So each feels obliged to choose carefully what he will confront. But still, we have to wait our turn (I Cor. 14:40). All this means, the process takes time and effort. Some people run out of time and energy before others, and they walk away. Every time someone walks away, that changes the outcome of the vote, since now a different group is voting. Resolving this takes yet more time and effort.

In short, Ps. 119:96. Everyone sees an end to whatever God has told Him so far. He seeks more, and of course, God is willing to give it. It takes effort to explain it to others, so often it is easier to walk away and seek God's command somewhere else. They simply disagree on how and where to apply their limited energy to achieving what they think God is telling them.

Notice in your quoted passages from Acts, that this community lasted only a few years.

Such communities were in the Qumran community also. Many of them were started in the Middle Ages. Based on this history, the Catholic Church requires two miracles to canonize a person as a saint. But if the person started a community such as you propose, and it lasted, they only require one.

zone · Dec 22, 2012

Enow said:

hi Enow.
i don't know who taught you of a pretrib rapture and a future 1,000 years, but it's not written anywhere in the scriptures.

welcome, btw.
i see you are new

zone

psychomom · Dec 22, 2012

My question is where are we to have all things in common...

Do we simply assume God means for that to happen wherever we happen to be living?

Or do I sell all I have and move to Bangladesh? Or Kenya? Or China? Or Poland?

Obviously there's no way for all believers everywhere to have the same 'standard of living'.
Or, is seems obvious to me...

If there are believers in the 'States whom God has blessed with much, and they share truckloads with believers in Asia or Africa who have next to nothing,
isn't that rather like what you're suggesting?

Not to take away from the Acts principle.
I'm just saying God is BIG, and there are lots of ways He can get things done in His Body.

Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. (2 Cor. 9:7)

And, no, we're not wealthy (materially

).
-ellie

Enow · Dec 22, 2012

Jon4TheCross said:

Seems like the elders have taken a backseat to everything these days.

Who would have the time to verify the need? A person could list food as a need to get out of using money for that while using the money they do have on things they do not need.

That is why I think these verses apply:

1 John 3:17But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

When we actually see that brother in need, that is when we should act having the world's goods, otherwise...

Galatians 6:1Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. 2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ. 3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself. 4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another. 5 For every man shall bear his own burden.

It reads to me that bearing one another burdens is towards one another's walk with the Lord: and yet there is a line drawn about other kinds of burdens which a man should bear on his own: and I would see that as not relying on other people to work in providing for his needs, especially when he is able to bear that burden as well.

We all have an accountability partner because Christ is in us. Believing in Him as our Good Shepherd, He enables us to be overcomers. Even AA & NA sponsers can't always be there for addicts, but Christ is & can when they trust Him as their Good Shepherd by ceasing from trying to keep their commitments to overcome, and trust in the power of Christ in them for He will overcome it for them that believe in Him.

Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: 28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:...9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; 10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ. 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

The problem here is that there is a cult that prompts this, and the guy leading the cult is filthy rich. He preys on the weak minded, the religious zealous ones, and those suffering in lack of faith, taking everything they have. The law cannot touch him nor catch him while he has international safe houses he can take off to & hide in.

Jesus did not say in Luke 14:33 to give up everything you have in how to be a disciple living in this life. If you start reading from Luke 14:15, you will afterwards Jesus answering that comment at the table with a parable about those invited to the King's Supper as in to eat in the Kingdom of God. In that parable, the invited were giving excuses because of a loved one or other cares of this life.

Whe you read on to verse 25 after Jesus closed that parable, Luke combined the next event with when Jesus turned to the multitude by His expounding on the excuses from that parable to the cost of discipleship in verse 33.

Jesus was not preaching that we give everything up in how we live as disciples down here, but the cost of discipleship means being ready to leave our loved ones & the cares of this life behind to attend the Marriage Supper of the Lamb at the pre tribulational rapture event.

There are other verses to consider before giving everything up to anyone or any ministry.

1 Timothy 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel....16 If any man or woman that believeth have widows, let them relieve them, and let not the church be charged; that it may relieve them that are widows indeed.

1 Timothy 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. 8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.

1 Timothy 6:17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; 18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; 19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

So there is such a thing as rich believers in Christ as the call is to be "not highminded nor trust in uncertain riches" and to be "ready" & "willing to distribute" meaning they are not giving up everything in meeting the needs of others and thus neglecting their own house and their own burdens.

I know that in Acts, one community came together like that, but that was because the community as a whole was saved by Jesus Christ at a time when the early church was coming about in the world.

With the speed of communication, one would think that it would bring everybody closer, but no. It just seems to draw predators out of the woodworks more than doing any real good these days.

Why? I wonder how many will answer?

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