Why is praying in tongues necessary?

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Bingo

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Feb 9, 2019
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" Over the ages, mankind has brought about their worldly doctrines, rules and regulations,
in essence, for setting themselves apart as believers. Spiritual integrity has been polluted
by imaginary fantasies and delusions. The world has been made foolish...bears much truth."
'Praise God'
 

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Sketch

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Nov 1, 2018
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Where you have it from, that 1. Cor. 12,30 is speaking from prophetic tongues? You Making differences where the Bible did not. Ore you have an different Bible?


To 5F.e.After the Azusa Street Event they sent many missionaris out in Countrys which Language the spoke in tongues. The most of them went back Home, because they were not longer able to speak this Language.
So why 5 has something to do with praying in tongues? Of course must they speak the Language of the Volk they went otherwise they would not understand one Single Word.
Yes, sometimes God uses then miracles, but this has nothing to do with praying in tongues.
In first Corinthians chapter fourteen, the Apostle Paul is comparing prophecy with speaking in tongues.
He puts tongues on equal footing with prophecy, if someone interprets, so the church is edified. (built up)

1 Corinthians 14:5
I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified.
 

Sketch

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Nov 1, 2018
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So, you are wrong. I went to Pentecostal/charismatic churches for my first 15 years as a Christian. I was active in them, so was my husband. I taught Sunday School, led worship and played in a 40 piece orchestra in the last tongues-speaking church I was in, for quite a few years.

I spoke in tongues for that whole time. I also read my Bible through once a year, making that 15 times I read through it during that period. I also prayed a lot.

As I read my Bible, I began to see a disconnect between what I was reading, and what I was hearing in these churches. I heard more sermons on Acts 2 and the other 4 incidents in Acts of speaking in tongues, out of the other 28 chapters. And other than correction that Paul has to write in his first letter to the Corinthians, not a lot morels in the Bible in tongues. Acts 2 is the birth of the church, when the Holy Spirit was given to the church. We have always had the Spirit since then!

I was reading about the birth of the church in Acts, and how their numbers grew. Not because of tongues, but because of the gospel being preached in their language, (after the day of Pentecost, of course!) and the fellowship and caring for the newcomers.

I was reading the most amazing systematic theology in Romans in my Bible, and never heard a reference, positive or negative in church. I got sick of the shallowness of the preaching, the judgement that if "fire did not fall from heaven" then God was not there. If there wasn't group praise in tongues, the service was flat.

I heard people telling unsaved people all they need was to be baptized in the Holy Spirit, when these people didn't know the name of Jesus! I think biblically, you really do have to believe, before anything else.

I began to reflect on my salvation experience. From the moment God saved me, the Holy Spirit was there in power to lead and guide me. Then everyone started telling me I need to have the Holy Spirit, and speak in tongues. I was sure I did have the Holy Spirit, but as a new Christian, I thought these people knew more than me.

I later learned, we could not be saved, without the Holy Spirit, no second attempts necessary.

I prayed, tried to hide my doubts, which were very serious, as to whether the whole thing was fake. Then a couple of incidents at that Pentecostal church and a Vineyard church, where I was point blank lied to by a pastor, convinced me I was not dealing with mature, educated (in a spiritual sense, this was long before I went to seminary) Christians.

And really, how could anyone grow in that kind of atmosphere, when the Word was never expounded? Including the pastors. The tongues seemed more and more forced. I stopped speaking in tongues, prayer language or otherwise, and just talked to God. Sometimes I groaned, when life was bad, which was a far cry from the fake tongues I and everyone else had been pretending to speak in. Of course, they thought it was real, as I once had, before I woke up and realized it was a lie!

We changed to an Evangelical Free Church, and it was night and day. People were so much more loving and caring. People helped me with my RA. The pastor went through so many books of the Bible, over the next 5 years we lived there. He taught doctrine. What I was reading in my Bible, was being preached in Sunday morning. Later, we attended Baptist churches, no charismatic churches, were I grew more as a Christian in a month, than in 15 years in tongues speaking churches.

I would love to see more people freed from tongues, the way it is practiced today. I pray they will read their Bibles, and reflect if the whole Bible, and question whether many doctrines are being taught, or just tongues, which doesn't even begin to touch on the work of the Holy Spirit.

So, until you can break free if your experiential addictions, and seek the whole counsel of God, you will never see how this kind of church, and what goes on in them, are not a step forward, but a stagnant and unbiblical emphasis which literally hold people back from walking with God and being transformed into the image of Christ!

PS For those that think that non tongue speaking churches are "dead" churches, lose the addiction, and you will find a much richer, dynamic and creative worship and teaching when the nonsense babbling is stilled, and God is truly free to move among his people!
Thanks for your detailed and thoughtful post.
My spiritual path went in the opposite direction of yours.
And frankly, we agree on a few of the concerns and points you made.

I was raised in an evangelical protestant community church with a strong world mission emphasis.
My parents were supportive of things Charismatic and Pentecostal.
They would go to services in the evening or on the weekend, but still be regular at our church on Sunday.
My Mom used to collect preaching tapes from these places and had shoe boxes full of them.

I was saved and baptized at a young age and had catechism at church.
As a young adult I read and studied the entire Bible.

I knew something was missing at church. Why were the gifts being suppressed?
I talked to several Charismatics about this. I wanted biblical support for what they were doing.
Unfortunately, they were of no help whatsoever. But these folks were not as you described.
They were in the Word and understood the fundamentals of salvation.

So, in order to get answers, I had to hit the books and study it out for myself.
I borrowed the shoeboxes full of message tapes from my Mom and listened to them.
I started to pick it up in bits and pieces. Always returning to the Bible to confirm them.

Eventually all the pieces fit and I was confident about what I saw.
At that point I sought the Baptism with the Holy Spirit.

I agree with you that every believer has the Holy Spirit.
But the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is indeed a subsequent event.

I have been attending a Pentecostal church (AG) for the last 30+ years.
A few months back a visitor that had been with us for a while had to ask me.
"So, do you guys speak in tongues?" I assured him that we do.
Obviously, there is a lot more going on than that at our church.
And yes, the gospel is preached. That is the primary mission.

Let me know if you have any questions.
I would be happy to address any disagreements if you give me a chance. Thanks.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
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In first Corinthians chapter fourteen, the Apostle Paul is comparing prophecy with speaking in tongues.
He puts tongues on equal footing with prophecy, if someone interprets, so the church is edified. (built up)

1 Corinthians 14:5
I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified.
So, and where in this vers is said, that speaking in tongues is the same as prophesie?
And where is it said that 1.cor.12 30 meant prophesie?
The gifts of speaking in tongues and prophesie are different.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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Thanks for your detailed and thoughtful post.
My spiritual path went in the opposite direction of yours.
And frankly, we agree on a few of the concerns and points you made.

I was raised in an evangelical protestant community church with a strong world mission emphasis.
My parents were supportive of things Charismatic and Pentecostal.
They would go to services in the evening or on the weekend, but still be regular at our church on Sunday.
My Mom used to collect preaching tapes from these places and had shoe boxes full of them.

I was saved and baptized at a young age and had catechism at church.
As a young adult I read and studied the entire Bible.

I knew something was missing at church. Why were the gifts being suppressed?
I talked to several Charismatics about this. I wanted biblical support for what they were doing.
Unfortunately, they were of no help whatsoever. But these folks were not as you described.
They were in the Word and understood the fundamentals of salvation.

So, in order to get answers, I had to hit the books and study it out for myself.
I borrowed the shoeboxes full of message tapes from my Mom and listened to them.
I started to pick it up in bits and pieces. Always returning to the Bible to confirm them.

Eventually all the pieces fit and I was confident about what I saw.
At that point I sought the Baptism with the Holy Spirit.

I agree with you that every believer has the Holy Spirit.
But the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is indeed a subsequent event.

I have been attending a Pentecostal church (AG) for the last 30+ years.
A few months back a visitor that had been with us for a while had to ask me.
"So, do you guys speak in tongues?" I assured him that we do.
Obviously, there is a lot more going on than that at our church.
And yes, the gospel is preached. That is the primary mission.

Let me know if you have any questions.
I would be happy to address any disagreements if you give me a chance. Thanks.
Look, I dont know your Spiritual status, and you may indeed be a Holy Spirit filled BELIEVER.
But what you describe seems to be quest for experience, rather than an understanding that HE HAS ALREADY BAPTIZED AND SEALED YOU!

The Holy Spirit's main job is to convict and point people to JESUS. He doesn't want to be the center of attention.

You are like the guy that has been away at war for yrs, with only a picture of his wife to meditate on.
He comes home and the wife meets him with arms wide open, only for him to walk right by her his gaze transfixed on the picture.

Get out. Preach THE GOSPEL UNTO SALVATION and focus on Jesus, NOT the gifts.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
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God does not want us testing spiritual manifestations with our human reasoning. The Holy Spirit which is The Spirit of Truth will bear witness to everything that is of God and is True.

We can throw scriptures back and forth all day to prove our points but, it won't matter. It takes a deep love for the Truth to receive it.

All the gifts of the Holy Spirit are in operation, right now on the Earth because the Holy Spirit is on the Earth. None of these gifts operate without the Holy Spirit. Only when Christ returns to Earth are the gifts no longer necessary.

Human reasoning is blindness.
Dear Heavenly Father,

Forgive and help @Angela53510 not to be rude and disrespectful. May Angela feel and know Your Love and Mercy in such a way that it helps Angela to love and be kind to others, in Yeshua/Jesus Name, amen. :love:
 
Oct 31, 2015
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Necessary? Necessary for what?

Building yourselves up on your most Holy faith.


19 These are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit.
20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. Jude 19-21


People that do not have the Spirit, who have not been baptized with the Holy Spirt, don’t understand the need for this wonderful promise nor do they see any need in praying in the Spirit to build themselves up, edify themselves, which is a way of refilling themselves spiritually.


I’ve noticed people who haven’t been baptized with the Spirit are also very divisive, not having a solid understanding of scripture.




JPT
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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Building yourselves up on your most Holy faith.


19 These are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit.
20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. Jude 19-21


People that do not have the Spirit, who have not been baptized with the Holy Spirt, don’t understand the need for this wonderful promise nor do they see any need in praying in the Spirit to build themselves up, edify themselves, which is a way of refilling themselves spiritually.


I’ve noticed people who haven’t been baptized with the Spirit are also very divisive, not having a solid understanding of scripture.




JPT
Yeah... I think I'll bash a bunch of Christians today and then call THEM divisive!

Folks, you can't make this stuff up.
 

Sketch

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Nov 1, 2018
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So, and where in this vers is said, that speaking in tongues is the same as prophesie?
And where is it said that 1.cor.12 30 meant prophesie?
The gifts of speaking in tongues and prophesie are different.
A bit of context will help.
This says that prophecy is edifying. And that the interpretation of tongues is edifying.
Therefore if the message in a prophecy is edifying and the interpretation of tongues is edifying,
then the message in tongues was edifying. Or, the same as prophecy.

1 Corinthians 14:3-5
But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort. 4 Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified.
 

Sketch

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Nov 1, 2018
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Look, I dont know your Spiritual status, and you may indeed be a Holy Spirit filled BELIEVER.
But what you describe seems to be quest for experience, rather than an understanding that HE HAS ALREADY BAPTIZED AND SEALED YOU!
I agree that we receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit upon conversion.
But that is NOT the Baptism with the Holy Spirit. The Baptism with the Holy Spirit is tied to the outpouring at Pentecost.

Acts 1:4-5
On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5 For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
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Building yourselves up on your most Holy faith.


19 These are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit.
20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. Jude 19-21


People that do not have the Spirit, who have not been baptized with the Holy Spirt, don’t understand the need for this wonderful promise nor do they see any need in praying in the Spirit to build themselves up, edify themselves, which is a way of refilling themselves spiritually.


I’ve noticed people who haven’t been baptized with the Spirit are also very divisive, not having a solid understanding of scripture.




JPT
You make a joke ore you are discredit every beliver before 1900.
I f.e. know only non pentecostal/ charismatic believers, bible school and missionarys.
I am saved and received the Holy Spirit at 3rd Oct. 1987. I got the gift to discern the spirits.
In your eyes i do not understand the scripture, because i have not received the empowering with the proof of speaking in tongues, which is called today the baptism with the Holy Spirit as an seperate expierience then the salvation.
No one in this thread could show me a scripture which says that praying 7n tongues is nessasary for an believer.
My expierience as Christian is that God mostly edify me through His Spirit with his word which is written down, ore in prayer time with my own toungue ore in my Spirit.

Divise is ok if we are confronted with false teaching.
From beginning on i saw me as Christian and not as Baptist ore menonite, ore any other denomination. Non of this denominations is 100% right in their teachings. I was very open for every person who confess to belongs to Christ. But soon i got difficulties if i came in contact with pentecostals and charismatics.
Their teaching about the Holy Spirit is strange and i cant follow from the scripture.
I always got to hear i am not a right Christian if i am not speaking in tongues and have not the " second" baptism with the Holy Spirit.
This teaching is man made and i ask me which Spirit is behind.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Building yourselves up on your most Holy faith.


19 These are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit.
20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. Jude 19-21


People that do not have the Spirit, who have not been baptized with the Holy Spirt, don’t understand the need for this wonderful promise nor do they see any need in praying in the Spirit to build themselves up, edify themselves, which is a way of refilling themselves spiritually.


I’ve noticed people who haven’t been baptized with the Spirit are also very divisive, not having a solid understanding of scripture.




JPT
I asked 'for what?' because there are a number of purposes.
 

PennEd

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Apr 22, 2013
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I agree that we receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit upon conversion.
But that is NOT the Baptism with the Holy Spirit. The Baptism with the Holy Spirit is tied to the outpouring at Pentecost.

Acts 1:4-5
On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5 For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”
ALL believers since Jesus ascended and sent the Holy Spirit ARE baptized WITH the Holy Spirit.
Believers no longer need to go to Hades and wait in Abraham's Bosom. Jesus went down to get them, and they are now with Him.

Jesus sent the Holy Spirit so that all who heard the Gospel and were appointed to believe would be filled, sealed, and baptized with the Holy Spirit. Made a part of the Body of Christ.
Everyone who has the Spirit of Christ HAS BEEN baptized by the Holy Spirit.

Gifts are to be used to bring glory to God, and others to Christ. THAT'S IT!
NOT to attain wealth. NOT to prove to the individual using a GIFT they in fact have the Holy Spirit. Not even for the individual benefiting from receiving the gift.

SOLELY for Christ's Glory, and to bring others to Him.
 

wolfwint

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Feb 15, 2014
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A bit of context will help.
This says that prophecy is edifying. And that the interpretation of tongues is edifying.
Therefore if the message in a prophecy is edifying and the interpretation of tongues is edifying,
then the message in tongues was edifying. Or, the same as prophecy.

1 Corinthians 14:3-5
But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort. 4 Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified.
But if i am not wrong, then both must not connected for to edify. Alone reading a word of God can edify.
We have also to consider that the believer in those days had no bible!
We have the written word.
If you say that 1.Cor. 12, 30 meant only speaking in tongues as prophecie, but not speaking in tongues itself, then is it an assumtion from you, but no biblical proof.
Nowhere distinguish the bible different gifts of speaking in tongues the beliver should got.
 

wolfwint

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Feb 15, 2014
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Don’t you want the Baptism with the Holy Spirit?




JPT
I am baptised with the Holy Spirit when i became a christian. And I also got a gift. To distinguish the Spirits.
I cant see behind the pentecostal/ charismatic teaching about the Holy Spirit ( baptism with the Holy Spirit) Gods Spirit. And I cant find this teaching in the NT.
 

Bingo

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Feb 9, 2019
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"Ambiguous language has and will forever import dissension, bringing cause
of inflated language, often for self-acclaim satisfaction. It should be considered, that
which is outside the spiritual realm, shall often be exposed the dark side of the programmatic
materialistic world of delusion and imagination. In spirit and truth bears profound implication."
'Praise God'
 

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