Why is praying in tongues necessary?

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wolfwint

wolfwint

Senior Member
#301
Feb 15, 2014
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#301
justpassinthrough said:
Is Acts chapter 8 a lie?




JPT
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No the bible is true , but it seems that sometimes the doctrines which are made out of the truth are missinterpretet and shows not the truth.

When do you live? Today ore in the days of Peter around 1980 years ago?

Is the doctrine of RRC a lie ore truth?

Is it true that before the pentecostal movement arose in 1900 no christian worldwide got the Holy Spirit, because their was nobody to teach this?
 
J

justpassinthrough

Senior Member
#302
Oct 31, 2015
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#302
jaybird88 said:
wolf is actually correct, its a very recent thing. we have mountains of accounts of Christian churches from Jesus up until the 1900s and no one did this until recently.
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I don’t know about recent movements, as I just go by what the scriptures teach.



JPT
 
J

justpassinthrough

Senior Member
#303
Oct 31, 2015
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#303
jaybird88 said:
not a lie your just misunderstanding
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Please point out what you disagree with here -


The baptism with the Holy Spirit, like baptism in water comes after a person believes, or receives the Gospel message and is saved; born again, regenerated.


And they heeded him because he had astonished them with his sorceries for a long time. But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized. Then Simon himself also believed; and when he was baptized he continued with Philip, and was amazed, seeing the miracles and signs which were done. Acts 8:11-13


At this point the region of Samaria believed the Gospel message and was baptized by Phillip with water baptism.


They had not yet received the Holy Spirit.



  • they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit.
  • For as yet He had fallen upon none of them.
  • They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
  • Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, saying, “Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”
Acts 8:14-19



JPT
 
J

justpassinthrough

Senior Member
#304
Oct 31, 2015
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#304
wolfwint said:
No the bible is true , but it seems that sometimes the doctrines which are made out of the truth are missinterpretet and shows not the truth.

When do you live? Today ore in the days of Peter around 1980 years ago?

Is the doctrine of RRC a lie ore truth?

Is it true that before the pentecostal movement arose in 1900 no christian worldwide got the Holy Spirit, because their was nobody to teach this?
Click to expand...

No Christian worldwide got the Holy Spirit?


How is someone a Christian without the Holy Spirit?



Please read Acts 8:14-17 and tell me what you disagree with.


At this point the region of Samaria believed the Gospel message and was baptized by Phillip with water baptism.


They had not yet received the Holy Spirit.



  • they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit.
  • For as yet He had fallen upon none of them.
  • They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
  • Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.




Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. Acts 8:14-17





JPT
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#305
#305
justpassinthrough said:
I don’t know about recent movements, as I just go by what the scriptures teach.

JPT
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ok but you do have common sense dont you. why is it nobody understood the passage this way until the early 1900s?
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#307
#307
justpassinthrough said:
No Christian worldwide got the Holy Spirit?


How is someone a Christian without the Holy Spirit?

Please read Acts 8:14-17 and tell me what you disagree with.

At this point the region of Samaria believed the Gospel message and was baptized by Phillip with water baptism.

They had not yet received the Holy Spirit.
  • they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit.
  • For as yet He had fallen upon none of them.
  • They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
  • Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. Acts 8:14-17

JPT
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anyone can flop around on the floor like a fish and chatter in nonsense sounds. Elijah. Moses, Samuel all had the spirit, they never acted like this. also the ones today can onlt speak in the angel language not any earthly language. you cant fake french, chinese or swedish, but anyone can chatter and make noises, somehow i would think the language of angels would be more sophisticated and unique.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#308
#308
justpassinthrough said:
Who said nobody understood this passage this way until the early 1900’s?


JPT
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because it (your interpretation) didnt exist until the early 1900s. go find me an example between 100 ad and 1850.
 
J

justpassinthrough

Senior Member
#309
Oct 31, 2015
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#309
jaybird88 said:
anyone can flop around on the floor like a fish and chatter in nonsense sounds. Elijah. Moses, Samuel all had the spirit, they never acted like this. also the ones today can onlt speak in the angel language not any earthly language. you cant fake french, chinese or swedish, but anyone can chatter and make noises, somehow i would think the language of angels would be more sophisticated and unique.
Click to expand...

I certainly don’t advocate flopping around on the floor.



Maybe you could just stick to the scriptures, and what they teach, rather than making up things out of the blue.



JPT
 
J

justpassinthrough

Senior Member
#310
Oct 31, 2015
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#310
jaybird88 said:
because it (your interpretation) didnt exist until the early 1900s. go find me an example between 100 ad and 1850.
Click to expand...

Please let me know what you disagree with about this post.


At this point the region of Samaria believed the Gospel message and was baptized by Phillip with water baptism.


They had not yet received the Holy Spirit.



  • they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit.
  • For as yet He had fallen upon none of them.
  • They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
  • Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.




Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. Acts 8:14-17





JPT
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#311
#311
justpassinthrough said:
I certainly don’t advocate flopping around on the floor.
Maybe you could just stick to the scriptures, and what they teach, rather than making up things out of the blue.
JPT
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no one is making it up, these churches are all over but they did not exist until the early 1900s. some refuse to believe this even by several witnesses.

Please let me know what you disagree with about this post.

At this point the region of Samaria believed the Gospel message and was baptized by Phillip with water baptism.

They had not yet received the Holy Spirit.
  • they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit.
  • For as yet He had fallen upon none of them.
  • They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
  • Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit
Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. Acts 8:14-17
JPT
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i disagee with flopping on the floor and chatter nonesense sounds. like i said before.
 
J

justpassinthrough

Senior Member
#312
Oct 31, 2015
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#312
jaybird88 said:
no one is making it up, these churches are all over but they did not exist until the early 1900s. some refuse to believe this even by several witnesses.



i disagee with flopping on the floor and chatter nonesense sounds. like i said before.
Click to expand...

I see, so your just wanting to stay away from discussing the truth of the scriptures and just argue your opinion.



I won’t waste anymore of my time with your opinionated nonsense.






At this point the region of Samaria believed the Gospel message and was baptized by Phillip with water baptism.


They had not yet received the Holy Spirit.



  • they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit.
  • For as yet He had fallen upon none of them.
  • They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
  • Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.




Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. Acts 8:14-17





JPT
 
M

MattforJesus

Banned
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Apr 15, 2017
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#313
TheLearner said:
Why is praying in tongues necessary?

Romans 8:26-27 New International Version (NIV)
26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.

This common proof text does not say the Holy Spirit is praying in tongues unknown to the Human through the Human's mouth. A groan is not a human language and Acts 2 was plainly in Human Languages.

Acts 2
5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken.7 Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans?8 Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language?9 Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,[b] 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11 (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!”
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Jas 3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

The tongue will sin more than any other part of the body, and if a person can tame the tongue, then they should have the power to tame the whole body, for we may not want to hurt a person physically, but we might want to dog them out with our tongue for it is the lesser offense, and they are not hurt physically.

Which parents will dog out the children, and the children the parents, but they might not want to fight physically, and a person can tell a person go to hell, but not actually want them to go there, which a saint should say when someone offends them go to heaven.

So when someone offends you say go to heaven.

Jas 3:8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
Jas 3:9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.

But no person can tame the tongue to be able to become unto a perfect man.

So does God tame the one part of the body that we cannot tame so we can become unto a perfect man, being Christlike, taming the whole body.

And if no person can tame the tongue then everybody would have to speak in tongues to become unto a perfect man.

And if not all have spoke in tongues then is there a lot of people that do not have the Spirit that think they have the Spirit.

Tongues shows the supernatural for it did not come from the person speaking in a language they did not learn, and do not know.

There is the gift of tongues, but it would seem like tongues would be spoken by everyone that received the Spirit, although some will speak more than others.

And we need the Spirit to intercede for us if we do not know what to pray for to keep us spiritually clean.
 
G

garee

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Mar 28, 2016
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Waggles said:
How would you know as you do not pray in tongues?
Praying in tongues is the Holy spirit within praying unto God: Jesus and my Father.
Praying in tongues is praying by the Spirit of adoption and thus I truly become intimate spiritually with my Father who is Spirit
and wants me to worship him in spirit and in truth.
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Tongues is prophecy (God's word)

The sign of tongues confirms those IN unbelief (no faith) as those who do not believe the word of God as it is written .

No sign for those who do hear prophecy other than a person has believed God in their heart, by faith.

There are different ways to look at the tongues doctrine .One poster used the sabbath rest we do have in Christ to help understanding to use of tongues..

Signs are designed for those who rebel against prophecy. They are shown as not receiving the sabbath rest that the believer does experience when mixing faith in what they hear or see.( Hebrews 4 ) .

Hebrews 4 (NKJV) The Promise of Rest
Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. For indeed the gospel was preached to "us" as well as to "them"; but the word which "they" heard did not profit "them", [a]not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:

The sign seekers must ignore the foundation of the law and the defining of the law in the new testemtment by which we can receive the spiritual understanding needed to believe God working in us. . Yet for all that they still reject prophecy as it is written in the law and the prophets in exchange for the oral traditions of men as a sign against themselves..


For by people of strange lips and with a foreign tonguethe Lord will speak to "this people", to whom he has said,
“This is rest; give rest to the weary; and this is repose”; yet "they" would not hear. Isaiah 28:11-12

Again re-establishing the old testament foundation of the doctrine of tongues.

In the law it is written: “With men of other tongues and other lip I will speak to "this people"; And yet, for all that, they will not hear Me,” says the Lord.Therefore tongues are for a sign, "not to those who believe" but "to unbelievers"; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe. 1 Corinthians 14.21:22
 
Didymous

Didymous

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Feb 22, 2018
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#315
Arguments about laying on of hands to receive the Holy Spirit is ridiculous. Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit.
 
wolfwint

wolfwint

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#318
Feb 15, 2014
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#318
justpassinthrough said:
I don’t know about recent movements, as I just go by what the scriptures teach.



JPT
Click to expand...
Nope, acts 8 is an example for the jews that the samarians are also get the Gospel. The same with acts 10 and the gentiles.
And this teaching, with an extra expierience with he Holy Spirit and as sign for that the gift to speaking in tonguesxfirst was taught in the churchhistorie at 1900 in Topeka, USA.
You never heared from pentecostal and charismatic movements?
Where do you live?

And you did not answer my question.
Does I received the Holy Spirit, if not somebody was laying the hand upon me to receive Him?
 
J

justpassinthrough

Senior Member
#320
Oct 31, 2015
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#320
wolfwint said:
Nope, acts 8 is an example for the jews that the samarians are also get the Gospel. The same with acts 10 and the gentiles.
And this teaching, with an extra expierience with he Holy Spirit and as sign for that the gift to speaking in tonguesxfirst was taught in the churchhistorie at 1900 in Topeka, USA.
You never heared from pentecostal and charismatic movements?
Where do you live?

And you did not answer my question.
Does I received the Holy Spirit, if not somebody was laying the hand upon me to receive Him?
Click to expand...

You can receive the baptism with the Holy Spirit like Acts 10, without people laying hands on you.




  • Then Peter answered, “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”


While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
Then Peter answered, “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days. Acts 10:44-48




JPT
 
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