Why is salvation free, when it should be the costliest of all things?

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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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#61
Ok. So I asked all those questions to come to this question:

If eternal judgement for the unsaved includes torment, did Jesus pay on the cross for the ones He saved this eternal weeping and gnashing of teeth?
Eternal death is not the penalty of sin. Separation from God is

We are separated due to sin. Jesus was separated on the cross. As God. Jesus could suffer enough for all mankind because he is eternal

Those who do not believe are condemned already. Their condemnation will just continue unless they repent before it is too late
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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62
#62
Eternal death is not the penalty of sin. Separation from God is

We are separated due to sin. Jesus was separated on the cross. As God. Jesus could suffer enough for all mankind because he is eternal

Those who do not believe are condemned already. Their condemnation will just continue unless they repent before it is too late
Ok. Thanks for answering my questions.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#63
Death is given as the consequence/penalty for sin from beginning to end of Scripture.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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#64
Eternal death is not the penalty of sin. Separation from God is

We are separated due to sin. Jesus was separated on the cross. As God. Jesus could suffer enough for all mankind because he is eternal

Those who do not believe are condemned already. Their condemnation will just continue unless they repent before it is too late
Death is given as the consequence/penalty for sin from beginning to end of Scripture.
Can it not be validly inferred? deduced? (I always get the processes confused without consulting notes) that separation from God is (and perhaps even must be?) required in order to receive death?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#65
Can it not be validly inferred? deduced? (I always get the processes confused without consulting
notes) that separation from God is (and perhaps even must be?) required in order to receive death?
God is the author and giver and sustainer of life. All God has to do to cause the death of anything
is withdraw Himself from it/them. If someone were separated from Him in the true sense of the
word, that is to say, forced apart, detached, or severed from God, they are not capable of sustaining life.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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#66
The Bible says that salvation (or eternal life) is a FREE gift of God, and that anyone and everyone may receive this gift through obedience to the Gospel. But why should eternal life be free, when human beings in general will do almost anything to ensure that they are not killed, or die prematurely?

Ever since man was created, human beings have made all kinds of efforts to prolong life on earth, even looking for “the fountain of youth” or “the elixir of youth” or some such thing. Yet when the Gospel is preached, there is never a universal positive response to it. It is almost as though people think “This is too good to be true, so what’s the catch?”

Therefore unless people are shown from Scripture that the cost of our salvation was infinitely great, and the price which was paid could never be reckoned even in trillions of dollars, they will not undertstand why salvation is now offered by God freely through Christ.

While there are many Scriptures which explain what kind of price was paid, the best and most comprehensive passage is the 53rd chapter of Isaiah. It is not the prophet Isaiah who came up with this revelation, but it is God the Holy Spirit who gave those words to Isaiah.

ISAIAH ALREADY SAW THAT FEW WOULD BELIEVE HIS REPORT
1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

CHRIST WAS NOT IMMEDIATELY RECOGNIZED FOR WHO HE IS, THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD
2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

CHRIST WAS DESPISED AND REJECTED OF MEN, PARTICULARLY THE RELIGIOUS LEADERS
3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

CHRIST WAS SMITTEN BY GOD THE FATHER AS NO MAN WAS EVER SMITTEN
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

CHRIST TOOK ALL OUR SINS, INIQUITIES, AND GUILT UPON HIMSELF AND PAID THE FULLY PENALTY
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

CHRIST -- THE LAMB OF GOD -- WAS LED AS AN UNPROTESTING LAMB TO THE SLAUGHTER
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

CHRIST WAS MADE SIN FOR US WHO KNEW NO SIN, THAT WE MIGHT BE MADE THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD IN HIM
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

CHRIST -- THE HOLY ONE OF GOD -- WAS CRUCIFIED BETWEEN CRIMINALS AS A CRIMINAL
9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

IT IS GOD THE FATHER -- NOT ANY MAN -- WHO MADE CHRIST AN OFFERING FOR SIN
10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

THE SUFFERIINGS OF CHRIST WOULD BE VINDICATED THROUGH THE OFFER OF SALVATION TO ALL
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous Servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. [Note: "many" rather than "all" because all will not repent]

CHRIST MADE HIS BODY, SOUL, AND SPIRIT AN OFFERING FOR SIN
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Christ not only died for our sins, but He also rose again for our justification. Therefore sinners can be justified by grace through faith, and receive the gift of eternal life.

In verse 11, you are interpreting that our repenting is the cause of our eternal deliverance, which takes away the idea of free grace.

Rom 9:11 - To show that His election might stand, God choose Jacob over Esau before they were born, neither having done any good or evil. That is free grace.

1 Cor 2:14 - The natural man, before God quickens him to the new spiritual life, by God's sovereign grace, (Eph 2:1-5), will not repent of breaking one of God's spiritual laws that he cannot discern, and thinks them to be foolishness. Only those who have been born spiritually are capable of repenting of breaking God's spiritual laws.

The "many" in verse 11, are those that God choose before the foundation of the world (Eph 1:4), and gave to his Son (John 6:39, John 10:29)

Christ's sacrifice on the cross for the redemption of sins for those that his Father gave him, was a sacrifice offered to God, for God's acceptance, and not to mankind, for mankind's acceptance. Christ did not die in vain. Everyone that he died for will live with him in heaven, without the lose of one (John 6:39). That is by God's sovereign grace.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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#67
Because it wasn't. Jesus paid that costly price.

We pay the price of having to live worthily of it once the gift is accepted. Die to self, pick up your cross daily...

Spiritually dead people cannot accept spiritual gifts (1 Cor 2:14 & Eph 2:1)
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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#68

The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but
to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: “I will destroy the
wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.” 1 Corinthians 1:18-19
It would please me more, if you would refer to the KJV, which does not have the word "being saved". The KJV says "saved" only.

If you are understanding the "being saved" as saved=delivered her in time, then I stand corrected, because children who have been born again, do experience many deliverances as they sojourn here on earth, by their good works, otherwise, all of those who Christ died for on the cross, were saved eternally by his death.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#69
It would please me more, if you would refer to the KJV, which does not have the word "being saved". The KJV says "saved" only.

If you are understanding the "being saved" as saved=delivered her in time, then I stand corrected, because children who have been born again, do experience many deliverances as they sojourn here on earth, by their good works, otherwise, all of those who Christ died for on the cross, were saved eternally by his death.
Good morning, Forest -:) I rarely quote the KJV. That is not to say I never do, but my go-to is the Berean Study/Standard Bible -:D
 

HeIsHere

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May 21, 2022
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#70
Spiritually dead people cannot accept spiritual gifts (1 Cor 2:14 & Eph 2:1)
Jesus died for the spiritual dead (separated) and yes they can accept the gift of salvation.

That is the definition of a free gift, something we accept it is not?

If something is forced it is not a free gift, receiving must be voluntary for it to be a gift.

If a person is forced to take it, it is an obligation and therefore no longer free, nor a gift.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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#71
Can it not be validly inferred? deduced? (I always get the processes confused without consulting notes) that separation from God is (and perhaps even must be?) required in order to receive death?
We were born dead. Born under the penalty of sin. In Adam all die. Even though in Christ shall all be made alive. Remember some will not see death (physical)
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
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#73
I don't believe the Bible actually tells us that Jesus suffered the 'equivalent' of [what would have been] 'eternal torment' for the saved (as such, in particular) - only that He paid for the sins of the whole world - to the satisfaction of the Father - so that salvation could be offered...

We like to think of it in the 'equivalence' sense because that is how we see the 'measure' of it in terms of it being 'paid'.

Could 'eternal torment' pay for the price of sin? Of course not - it would create a paradox of the worst kind...

The cross was about making a sacrifice. It is not measured based on an 'equivalent' amount of torment.

Who can compare to the 'torment' that Jesus - innocent, righteous, God-man - experienced?

How do you compare that to the 'torment' experience of one who is most definitely guilty?

Would you not think that the suffering of Christ was far worse than anyone who is guilty?

There is another aspect of this no one has mentioned yet in this thread. If you understand that particular aspect, it should help clear up the questions being asked in the thread so far...

Revelation 14:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Think about the first part of this verse as a form of 'incense' before God - to glorify Him - forever.

You see - God "arranged it" so that every individual will glorify God forever. And, they get to make the decision of how they will do it - they will choose to willfully glorify God in this life and ever-after - or, they will "burn" forever - giving glory to God in the grand sense of:

"You were right and I was wrong."

He gets the glory no-matter-what.

A major part of the 'eternal equation' is the glory of God. He is righteous. He deserves it. He will have it. Period.

And, He has done everything that He has done in such a way so that He will get the glory forever - no-matter-what.

Separation from God will have its own torment for sure - especially, in knowing you could have chosen the other path.

However, the lost are tormented because of their own sin - which was not forgiven - because, they did not accept the gift of salvation.

They are not 'tormented forever' merely for unbelief; albeit, they are "condemned already" because of their unbelief. Had they believed, their sins would have been forgiven - paid for by Jesus on the cross. If they do not accept the 'payment' that Jesus made, they "stay condemned" in their sin - and, they experience the consequence of their decision - separation from God for eternity while being punished for their own sin.

They are separated from God because they refused to believe [in Him]. They are punished for their own sin because they refused salvation.

The idea of 'punishment' does not always exist as a form of 'payment' - in the sense of "making the slate clean again" - sometimes, it is simply a matter of 'justice' [served].
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#74
Ultimately, salvation is free because no one can afford it.
If it wasn't a gift, no one would have it.
 

allsaved

Junior Member
Sep 13, 2015
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#75
Ultimately, salvation is free because no one can afford it.
If it wasn't a gift, no one would have it.
Salvation is the freewill gift of God who did pay the highest price that ever could have been paid. The freewill gift we received was paid for by a holy God at the highest cost by him with the blood his firstborn son. It is the unbeliever that works to deserve God's freewill gift as if the price paid was not enough to pay for the sins of the world. It is for that reason that according to our holy god's holy plan Jesus had to die and it had to be Jesus that died. (For me it was by this that I came to understand what it means when we say "God is holy. "Everything about God's holy plan to accomplish his holy purpose had to work together.)
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#76
Salvation is the freewill gift of God who did pay the highest price that ever could have been paid. The freewill gift we received was paid for by a holy God at the highest cost by him with the blood his firstborn son. It is the unbeliever that works to deserve God's freewill gift as if the price paid was not enough to pay for the sins of the world. It is for that reason that according to our holy god's holy plan Jesus had to die and it had to be Jesus that died. (For me it was by this that I came to understand what it means when we say "God is holy. "Everything about God's holy plan to accomplish his holy purpose had to work together.)
I would say only begotten Son and the firstborn of many brethren. Otherwise, awesome.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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#77
Why is salvation free, when it should be the costliest of all things?


It certainly was the costliest of all things.
That's why Jesus had to die and make it free for you and me.
 

allsaved

Junior Member
Sep 13, 2015
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#78
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https://www.christianfaithpublishing.com/client/315122/315122Whitmire-cover.pdf?draft=2023-05-17-34
 
May 17, 2023
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#79
It is free to us but it cost Jesus everything.

He purchased it for us with His shed blood and gave it to us as a gift.
 
May 17, 2023
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#80
To say that salvation will be given to everyone is to cheapen salvation...there is nothing that you are actually saved from (as hell or the lake of fire) because no one goes to either of those places.

It is certainly available to all...

However, scripture is clear that we have access into grace through faith (Romans 5:1-2, Ephesians 2:8-9); and therefore if anyone does not have faith in Jesus and what He did for them on the Cross, they are not recipients of grace and do not have salvation.

Universalism is a lie from the pit.

It gives to people a false assurance that they will be saved even if they do not go through the right protocols to be saved.

Certain people, believing in it, will not go through those protocols and will not be saved as a result; while they may believe that they will be saved throughout their lives.

It is really a cruel doctrine to say the least. For those who believe in it will be unpleasantly surprised when they pass into the next life and are in for a rude awakening.