Why is the end times so important?

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Apr 3, 2019
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I'm not saying they are entirely synonymous, but "proclaim" is basically the same thing (in both contexts)
Yeah but, we don't need to go to Leviticus to figure out what proclaim means. The holy convocations were commanded. So to attempt to bring them into the context of the Lord's supper is somewhat iffy.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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Dispensational assumption not Scripture.



Dispensational assumption not Scripture.



Dispensational assumption not Scripture.



Dispensational assumption based on a false literal hermeneutic. Not Scripture.



Dispensational assumption not Scripture.



False.



Not according to Scripture. Revelation tells us SEVEN times in Revelation 1: 1,3 & Rev 22: 6, 7,10,12 and 20 that the book will be fulfilled shortly.

Rev 22: 6, Then he said to me, “These words are faithful and true." And the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel to show His servants the things which must SHORTLY take place.

Scripture.
It's very simple for you to claim "not scripture, dispensational assumption." However, there are three time periods mentioned, which you cannot deny, "what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later." I gave you the answers to the meaning of those, but because they do not fit with your belief and the truth regarding this has not been revealed to you, you attempt to discredit them. This is what the deceived and deceiving do. They discredit the truth, because they are fighting for their adopted false teachings. Therefore, it is only assumption as far as you are concerned, but is the truth regarding the word of God.

Talk about assumption, that is really ironic coming from someone who believes that Jesus has already returned to the earth to end the age and has sent out His angels to gather the wicked.

You and others with their false teachings are apart of the problem! However, you and they won't find that out until these events are staring you in face. It makes me wonder if you will even concede to your error after you witness these events literally taking place.

These are the deeper truths of God, which Jesus said the Holy Spirit would reveal (the things yet to come).

The teaching on this issue remains true, regardless of what you think.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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Yeah but, we don't need to go to Leviticus to figure out what proclaim means. The holy convocations were commanded. So to attempt to bring them into the context of the Lord's supper is somewhat iffy.
I'm not saying we "have" to go to Leviticus to find out what "proclaim" means, but that in Leviticus we see where His "death" correlated, in what Israel was "to proclaim" (Lev23:2 and entire chpt/context) and that was in ONE of the several feasts (not all); and what we /"ye do proclaim" now is "the Lord's DEATH TILL He come" (I'm not saying that "the Lord's Supper" is a COMMAND, in pointing this out ;) And I am not saying that WE are to observe any of Lev23 context, either)


I'm just saying "proclaim" is the same in both contexts (though very distinct things and persons ;) ).
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
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Obviously you are going to choose to believe what you want, like all humans do, but I have to say you are being inconsistent.

To say that the seventh trumpet, resurrection and judgment and new heavens and earth are still future is to directly contradict Scripture. Revelation says the things in the book would happen shortly. Jesus Himself says the resurrection and judgment and new heavens and earth would happen at the end of His generation. It is in many places. Not just one or two texts.

Because most Christians have looked for a physical fulfillment, that Scripture denies, you are going to throw your lot in with them. That is up to you. Tradition is very powerful in the hearts of men. Many people will not leave the comfort and safety of it.

It is easy to see why most Christians have missed this for 2,000 years. Like Nicodemus and the woman at the well, humans think physically and look for physical fulfillments when Jesus and the Scripture is talking about spiritual fulfillments and realities.

In Acts Chapter one it states that the Disciples saw Jesus taken up into heaven and two men dressed in white asked them why they were staring up into heaven. They said that Jesus would return in the same way as he went. To me that is a quite plain statement. Do you think God deliberately inspires these statements so that his church can be confused and misled about these matters and only a chosen few can be let in to the secret? It sounds more Gnostic than Christian to me.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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^ EDIT (to my post): Leviticus 23:5 "In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the Lord's passover."
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
The protestants of old got it wrong, Rome of today was not guilty of killing the prophets and the the apostles.

We know who was, Jerusalem.

(Matt 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those who are sent to you! How often I have longed to gather your children together as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you would have none of it!)

(Rev 18:20 Rejoice over her, O heaven, and you saints and apostles and prophets, for God has pronounced judgment against her on your behalf!)

(Rev 18:24 The blood of the saints and prophets was found in her, along with the blood of all those who had been killed on the earth.)

We see in the revelation that the prophets are told to rejoice at the judgment of the whore and her city, nothing to do with the Vatican.

(1 Th 2:15 -16 who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets and persecuted us severely. They are displeasing to God and are opposed to all people, because they hinder us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. Thus they constantly fill up their measure of sins, but wrath has come upon them completely.)

Paul is speaking about the Jews and Jerusalem, the wrath was soon to fall on the whore after he wrote.
Once again

Jerusalem does not fit the characteristics. And no one is going to mourn her destruction she is not even a sea port so people on the sea will not be able to see her burning

You can’t just go by the same stuff

You have to look at it all

And yes. Babylon has killed many prophets. It was the pagan influence that tore Israel away from god and killed the prophets because she played the harlot with Babylon's gods the true harlot
 

delirious

Junior Member
Mar 16, 2017
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In Acts Chapter one it states that the Disciples saw Jesus taken up into heaven and two men dressed in white asked them why they were staring up into heaven. They said that Jesus would return in the same way as he went. To me that is a quite plain statement. Do you think God deliberately inspires these statements so that his church can be confused and misled about these matters and only a chosen few can be let in to the secret? It sounds more Gnostic than Christian to me.
I"m not a "chosen few". I'm not special at all. The knowledge I have on this topic any Christian can have. It's right there written in the Scripture but Christians have refused to believe it for 2,000 years because they want a physical fulfillment the Bible does not teach. When you call the Full Preterist view "Gnostic" what you are attempting to do is discredit it in your own mind so you don't have to address what the text I presented say.

When you read Acts 1: 9-11 in the Greek it says that the cloud hid Jesus from the disciples eyes and they watched the cloud ascend. Jesus had already disappeared inside it. He did not ride it like a surfboard or something like many Christians seem to believe. The angels said He would return in like manner.

Jesus said He would return in the glory of His Father with the holy angels. How did the Father come in the Old Testament? He came on clouds and not visibly.

Isaiah 19: 1, "Behold, the Lord rides on a swift cloud, And will come into Egypt; The idols of Egypt will totter at His presence, And the heart of Egypt will melt in its midst." This was judgment against Egypt. They did not physically see God. It was spiritual.

Psalm 104: 3-4, "He lays the beams of His upper chambers in the waters, Who makes the clouds His chariot, Who walks on the wings of the wind, Who makes His angels spirits, His ministers a flame of fire." Chariots are war vehicles. Judgment.

Matt 24: 30 mentions Jesus coming on the clouds of heaven. What was that in reference too? Judgment on Jerusalem. Not visible physically but VERY visible spiritually.

I will simply. The bottom line is this: The Scriptures do not support a physical fulfillment of the kingdom of God. They are clear on this. Your own view is contradicting what the Scripture says. You refuse to believe what the Scripture says because it does not fit your physical understanding. You should change your understanding to fit the Scripture and not the other way around like Christians have been doing for 2,000 years. I apologize if I sound harsh in any way. That is not my intention. It is just that humans are not very rational sometimes.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Bears the representation of a harlot (rev 17: 1-2, 15 - 16). It claimed to be christ's bride, but had fallen from its pure purpose and had become a harlot.(please note a harlot is a false wife, or tries to take the place of the wife)

2. a leader in ecclesiastical affairs. (rev 17 : 2. 5). Spiritual fornication in scripture is an adherance to a false religious system.

3. the system is a leader in political affairs (rev 17:3) it is seen to be controlling the beast for which it sits.

4 the system has become very rich and influential (rev 17: 4)

5. The system represents the stage of development of christiondom that was hithertoo unrevieled (rev 17: 5) in that it was called the "mystery"

6. the system has been a great persecutor of the saints. (rev 17: 6)

7. the system is an organised system of worldwide scope (rev 17 : 15)

8. The system will be destroyed by the beast, the head of the roman coalition, so that his supremace may not be threatened (rev 17: 16 - 17

9. The world leaders will mourn for her when they see her burn rev 18: 9

Can someone explain how Jerusalem fits all of these characteristics?
 

delirious

Junior Member
Mar 16, 2017
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I'm not picking and choosing, you are. You confine the word "shortly" to one single meaning, i.e. yours and then try and make your eschatology fit what meaning you give to the word. God does not view time in the same way as we do because He is outside of it, and He does not progress His plan according to our time table, or our understanding. You are attempting to force Him to do so, all based on the flawed understanding of the word "shortly."
Everything you just wrote here is you denying what the Scripture says. Not me. We both know what the word shortly means. You want to change the word, because it doesn't fit your physical understanding, and make the word meaningless. I accept what the word means. I didn't change its meaning at all. You did.

God does not need the Bible. He wrote it for us. Do a study on time references in the Bible. They are always from our point of view because time does not have much meaning to God (2 Peter 3: 8, Psalm 90: 4).

The verses in Revelation are not the only ones saying Christ is returning in His generation. They are all over the NT.
 

cobalt1959

Active member
Feb 10, 2019
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Hello cobalt1959,

I did live in Ahwatukee up until last year. I resigned from my job, sold my house and moved out to Lake Havasu City, Az. and transitioned from computer operations to my own photography business.

Regarding the plain, literal proof of scripture, Satan has certainly fabricated many lies, as well as finding people to spread them. It just amazes me how people are so ready to apply symbolic/allegorical meanings to what is meant to be interpreted literally. While it is true that God uses symbolism, especially in Revelation, they are in error to apply a symbolic meaning to everything. The context always determines whether something should be interpreted as literal or symbolic. Regarding the Lord's appearing, I also like the following:

"Simon Peter asked him, "Lord, where are you going?" Jesus replied, "Where I am going, you cannot follow now, but you will follow later."
Ahwatukee was being developed when I was a kid. I was born in Phoenix, and raised in Glendale until I grew up and left home and moved to Kingman in 1982. I lived there until 1992 when I moved to Missouri. I used to work at Mohave Community College.

Symbolic/allegorical meanings have always been used to prop up bad doctrine that came not from scripture, but a person, or an organization. Some system, or amoral act, or source of control has to be formed, instituted, dismissed, etc. It can't be done by going with the traditional and accurate literal meaning of a passage so the way to fix that is use a device under which one can make the verse mean, or not mean whatever they want. People get tired of waiting for Jesus to come back so they ditch the entire concept and say He already came back. Then the rest of the End Times is just an undetermined and unorganized Hot Mess that Preterists can't explain.
 

delirious

Junior Member
Mar 16, 2017
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Talk about assumption, that is really ironic coming from someone who believes that Jesus has already returned to the earth to end the age and has sent out His angels to gather the wicked.
I believe that Jesus came in 70 A.D. because that is the ONLY time frame the Bible teaches. Scripture is not assumption.

You and others with their false teachings are apart of the problem! However, you and they won't find that out until these events are staring you in face. It makes me wonder if you will even concede to your error after you witness these events literally taking place.
They took place a long time ago but you insist on a physical fulfillment.

The teaching on this issue remains true, regardless of what you think.
And what you mean by that is your dispensational teaching. Scripture does not support you.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
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Your statement didn't imply that!!
Now I know it is was spin.
One does not need to imply of something not analogous to subject at hand.
You could have as easily thought of a positive rather than a negative.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
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Why are the end times so important?


I'd be very disappointed if God could create an entire universe,
but couldn't write one good ending for a story.

..
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
The blood of the saints and prophets was found in her,

Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the
prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world,
Why did they kill the prophets?

Because they were whoring themselves off the babylon (pagan worship such as worship of Baal which was fought so hard in the beginning which is what caused them to kill the prophets and anyone who would come in the name of God.

So yes. They, as BAAL worshipers (which was not JUST JEWS, and NOT JUST IN JERUSALEM) killed prophets. This is just one example.)
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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I disagree EG. The great city is named a Jerusalem in Rev 11:8. John gives no indication of changing the identity to some other city. There he calls them Sodom and Egypt, Babylon is just a further reference as to the city's state.

Have read here EG:

[…<snip "American Vision" link>…]
Do you embrace "Dominion-Theology/Reconstructionism/Theonomy/Kingdom-Now-Theology/etc" (like that of your link)??

I would caution all readers of this thread to avoid this like the plague. ;) Just a friendly tip. :D
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
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Didn’t Jesus say His kingdom was not of this world? And yet there is a strain of teaching that claims just the opposite.
This is just the sort of teaching that replaces doctrine with allegory to propose unbiblical conclusions, to the detriment of the one who preaches it, and to its disciples.
 
Apr 3, 2019
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Do you embrace "Dominion-Theology/Reconstructionism/Theonomy/Kingdom-Now-Theology/etc" (like that of your link)??

I would caution all readers of this thread to avoid this like the plague. ;) Just a friendly tip. :D
No I don't support "Dominion-Theology/Reconstructionism/Theonomy/Kingdom-Now-Theology", but the info in the link is accurate.

You may not agree with writers overall "Dominionist stance", but that is no reason caution readers on here as if you are some sort of authority. Let the reader decide.

I'll give the link again seeing as you edited my post (which is against the rules as some on here have said). If I can figure out how to put the link in mt signature line I will :ROFL:.

https://americanvision.org/3880/jerusalem-mother-of-harlots/
 
Apr 3, 2019
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Didn’t Jesus say His kingdom was not of this world?
Yes he did Sipsey. He also said it "is not coming with signs to be observed "
And yet there is a strain of teaching that claims just the opposite.
Which would that be?

This is just the sort of teaching that replaces doctrine with allegory to propose unbiblical conclusions, to the detriment of the one who preaches it, and to its disciples.
Not following you here, care to clarify this?