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Look at what Jesus said to the weeping women as He was going to the cross to die......
And as they led him away, they laid hold upon one Simon, a Cyrenian, coming out of the country, and on him they laid the cross, that he might bear it after Jesus.
And there followed him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented him.
But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.
For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.
Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.
For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?
Luke 23:26-31 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Luke 23:26-31&version=KJV
A lot of people to this day cannot understand what Jesus was saying....but, if you have ears to hear what the Holy Spirit is saying....you will know Jesus is speaking of His 3 1/2 years as the green tree and Satan’s (anti-Christ) 3 1/2 years as a dry tree.
Yes, the "green tree" Jesus was referring to was Him on the Earth with us which was His 3 1/2 years of public ministry.
The "dry tree" is the 3 1/2 years of the anti-christ because look at the scriptures right before......Jesus makes reference to the end times....the woe to women that have children and people crying out for the rocks to fall on them.
Again, the 7 years of Tribulation are NOT consecutive.
And as they led him away, they laid hold upon one Simon, a Cyrenian, coming out of the country, and on him they laid the cross, that he might bear it after Jesus.
And there followed him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented him.
But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.
For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.
Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.
For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?
Luke 23:26-31 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Luke 23:26-31&version=KJV
A lot of people to this day cannot understand what Jesus was saying....but, if you have ears to hear what the Holy Spirit is saying....you will know Jesus is speaking of His 3 1/2 years as the green tree and Satan’s (anti-Christ) 3 1/2 years as a dry tree.
Yes, the "green tree" Jesus was referring to was Him on the Earth with us which was His 3 1/2 years of public ministry.
The "dry tree" is the 3 1/2 years of the anti-christ because look at the scriptures right before......Jesus makes reference to the end times....the woe to women that have children and people crying out for the rocks to fall on them.
Again, the 7 years of Tribulation are NOT consecutive.
I would say that since the people were IN the green tree, then the tree has to be the fig tree. Jesus cursed the fig tree and it was about to turn into a dead dry tree. Which to me says that if those people are that wicked before the fig tree withered, how much worse are they going to be after the fig tree has died.
Luk 23:31 For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?
Luk 23:31 For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?
[re: the green tree and the dry]
For your consideration:
Ezekiel 17 -
15 But this king rebelled against Babylon by sending his envoys to Egypt to ask for horses and a large army. Will he flourish? Will the one who does such things escape? Can he break a covenant and yet escape?’
16 ‘As surely as I live,’ declares the Lord GOD, ‘he will die in Babylon, in the land of the king who enthroned him, whose oath he despised and whose covenant he broke. 17 Pharaoh with his mighty army and vast horde will not help him in battle, when ramps are built and siege walls constructed to destroy many lives. 18 He despised the oath by breaking the covenant. Seeing that he gave his hand in pledge yet did all these things, he will not escape!’
19 Therefore this is what the Lord GOD says: ‘As surely as I live, I will bring down upon his head My oath that he despised and My covenant that he broke. 20 I will spread My net over him and catch him in My snare. I will bring him to Babylon and execute judgment upon him there for the treason he committed against Me. 21 All his choice troops will fall by the sword, and those who survive will be scattered to every wind. Then you will know that I, the LORD, have spoken.’
22 This is what the Lord GOD says:
‘I will take a shoot from the lofty top of the cedar,
and I will set it out.
I will pluck a tender sprig from its topmost shoots,
and I will plant it on a high and lofty mountain.
23 I will plant it on the mountain heights of Israel
so that it will bear branches;
it will yield fruit
and become a majestic cedar.
Birds of every kind will nest under it,
taking shelter in the shade of its branches.
24 Then all the trees of the field will know
that I am the LORD.
I bring the tall tree down
and make the low tree tall.
I dry up the green tree
and make the withered [/dry] tree flourish.
I, the LORD, have spoken,
and I have done it.’ ”
[quoting Gaebelein on Ezek17]
"[...] The high and eminent mountain typifies Mount Zion, and the kingdom of Messiah is pictured in the closing verses of the chapter. The high tree which is brought low, the green tree which is dried up, is the symbol of Gentile world-power. The low tree which is exalted and the dry tree which is made to flourish stands for the restoration of the kingdom to Israel when the Son of David, our Lord, comes again. Then the high tree will be cut down and the now flourishing Gentile dominion will dry up; Israel the low tree will be exalted, and the long, dry and barren nation will bring its blessed fruit."
[end quoting Gaebelein; bold and underline mine; Ezekiel 17 Gaebelein's Annotated Bible (biblehub.com) more at link... to see who v.15's "this king" is speaking about, etc]
[see also Wm Kelly on Ezek17 - Ezekiel 17 William Kelly Major Works Commentary (biblehub.com) ]
For your consideration:
Ezekiel 17 -
15 But this king rebelled against Babylon by sending his envoys to Egypt to ask for horses and a large army. Will he flourish? Will the one who does such things escape? Can he break a covenant and yet escape?’
16 ‘As surely as I live,’ declares the Lord GOD, ‘he will die in Babylon, in the land of the king who enthroned him, whose oath he despised and whose covenant he broke. 17 Pharaoh with his mighty army and vast horde will not help him in battle, when ramps are built and siege walls constructed to destroy many lives. 18 He despised the oath by breaking the covenant. Seeing that he gave his hand in pledge yet did all these things, he will not escape!’
19 Therefore this is what the Lord GOD says: ‘As surely as I live, I will bring down upon his head My oath that he despised and My covenant that he broke. 20 I will spread My net over him and catch him in My snare. I will bring him to Babylon and execute judgment upon him there for the treason he committed against Me. 21 All his choice troops will fall by the sword, and those who survive will be scattered to every wind. Then you will know that I, the LORD, have spoken.’
22 This is what the Lord GOD says:
‘I will take a shoot from the lofty top of the cedar,
and I will set it out.
I will pluck a tender sprig from its topmost shoots,
and I will plant it on a high and lofty mountain.
23 I will plant it on the mountain heights of Israel
so that it will bear branches;
it will yield fruit
and become a majestic cedar.
Birds of every kind will nest under it,
taking shelter in the shade of its branches.
24 Then all the trees of the field will know
that I am the LORD.
I bring the tall tree down
and make the low tree tall.
I dry up the green tree
and make the withered [/dry] tree flourish.
I, the LORD, have spoken,
and I have done it.’ ”
[quoting Gaebelein on Ezek17]
"[...] The high and eminent mountain typifies Mount Zion, and the kingdom of Messiah is pictured in the closing verses of the chapter. The high tree which is brought low, the green tree which is dried up, is the symbol of Gentile world-power. The low tree which is exalted and the dry tree which is made to flourish stands for the restoration of the kingdom to Israel when the Son of David, our Lord, comes again. Then the high tree will be cut down and the now flourishing Gentile dominion will dry up; Israel the low tree will be exalted, and the long, dry and barren nation will bring its blessed fruit."
[end quoting Gaebelein; bold and underline mine; Ezekiel 17 Gaebelein's Annotated Bible (biblehub.com) more at link... to see who v.15's "this king" is speaking about, etc]
[see also Wm Kelly on Ezek17 - Ezekiel 17 William Kelly Major Works Commentary (biblehub.com) ]
Let me just add this portion, hopefully for better clarity to the readers:
[quoting Gaebelein on Ezek17 (in which chpt is also found "green tree" and "dry tree"]
"Ezekiel 17:1-24. The great eagle mentioned first is Nebuchadnezzar. (See Jeremiah 48:40; Jeremiah 49:22). He came to Lebanon and took the highest branch of the cedar, the symbol of the house of David, which was conquered by this eagle. Nebuchadnezzar made the youngest son of Josiah king over Judah and called him Zedekiah. This action is described in verse 5. The other great eagle is Hophra, the king of Egypt. To him Zedekiah turned for help. The interpretation and application of this parable is given in Ezekiel 17:11-21. The following passages should be read as helpful to the understanding of these verses: 2Chronicles 36:13; Jeremiah 27:1-22; Jeremiah 37:5-21; Jeremiah 52:11.
"Israel’s hope and Israel’s future come once more into view in Ezekiel 17:22-24. The cedar is the royal house of David. God in His sovereignty promises to take “of its young shoots a tender one and I will plant it upon a high and eminent mountain.” This tender one is the Messiah, the Son of David. It is the same promise as given in the book of Isaiah. [...]"
[end quoting Gaebelein; bold and underline mine; (see previous post for the remainder)]
____________
...so my view and understanding is, that "the green tree" is not merely a duration of 3.5 yrs alone.
[I believe it pertains to "the TIMES of the Gentiles" which is a duration of time VERY LENGTHY]
[quoting Gaebelein on Ezek17 (in which chpt is also found "green tree" and "dry tree"]
"Ezekiel 17:1-24. The great eagle mentioned first is Nebuchadnezzar. (See Jeremiah 48:40; Jeremiah 49:22). He came to Lebanon and took the highest branch of the cedar, the symbol of the house of David, which was conquered by this eagle. Nebuchadnezzar made the youngest son of Josiah king over Judah and called him Zedekiah. This action is described in verse 5. The other great eagle is Hophra, the king of Egypt. To him Zedekiah turned for help. The interpretation and application of this parable is given in Ezekiel 17:11-21. The following passages should be read as helpful to the understanding of these verses: 2Chronicles 36:13; Jeremiah 27:1-22; Jeremiah 37:5-21; Jeremiah 52:11.
"Israel’s hope and Israel’s future come once more into view in Ezekiel 17:22-24. The cedar is the royal house of David. God in His sovereignty promises to take “of its young shoots a tender one and I will plant it upon a high and eminent mountain.” This tender one is the Messiah, the Son of David. It is the same promise as given in the book of Isaiah. [...]"
[end quoting Gaebelein; bold and underline mine; (see previous post for the remainder)]
____________
...so my view and understanding is, that "the green tree" is not merely a duration of 3.5 yrs alone.
[I believe it pertains to "the TIMES of the Gentiles" which is a duration of time VERY LENGTHY]
^ Reminder: "the TIMES of the Gentiles" (Lk21:24) refers to "Gentile domination over Israel" and this started in 606/605bc... think: Neb's dream/statue/image... with Neb as "head of gold"
[it does not refer to "the Church age" as many tend to conflate it with; and is also distinct from the phrase "the FULNESS of the Gentiles be come in [G1525]" (Rom11:25)]
[it does not refer to "the Church age" as many tend to conflate it with; and is also distinct from the phrase "the FULNESS of the Gentiles be come in [G1525]" (Rom11:25)]
Consider the following (in a few posts, for its length):
The entire passage of Daniel 9:24-27 is CHRONOLOGICAL [/SEQUENTIAL]:
1) "FROM... TO [/UNTO the Messiah the Prince]" equals so many Weeks (v.25; 69 Weeks TOTAL [fulfilled on Palm Sunday: when Jesus SAID what He said, and DID what He did [pertaining to "THE CITY" (i.e. not an earlier point in time in His earthly ministry)]--see below)
2) AFTER the 62 Weeks [which follows the '7 Weeks'] shall he be "CUT OFF and have nothing" (v.26a [see below])
3) THEN "the PEOPLE OF [the prince that SHALL come]" SHALL DESTROY the CITY and the SANCTUARY (v.26b; i.e. the 70ad events [see below and the Scripture references I put re: that])--this is A PART of the "desolaTIONS [PLURAL] are determined" (per v.26b)
4) THEN (that is, AFTER the 70ad events [and not immediately after]) "the prince that/who SHALL COME" (this correlates with the "whose COMING is after the working of Satan" 2Th2:9a, AND is the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3; Matt24:4/Mk13:5 "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE' ['a certain one' bringing deception]" OF "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" that Jesus spoke of (which are the EQUIVALENT of the SEALS of Rev6 at the START of the "DOTL" TIME-PERIOD: 1Th5:2-3 its ARRIVAL), which are followed by MANY MORE "birth PANGS" (so SEAL #1 is the INITIAL one of those "BoBPs" at the START of the Trib yrs [see below])
5) THEN... "FOR ONE WEEK [7 years]" which pertains to the "he" of v.26b (not the "shall be CUT OFF [and have nothing]" one, of v.26a)
[further details of all this in the next post (or posts)... which will be a re-posting of past ones I've put... but the above ^ is its basic OUTLINE (for those who do not like reading in-depth or lengthy posts)... meaning, regarding the SEQUENTIAL nature of the Dan9:24-27 passage]
The entire passage of Daniel 9:24-27 is CHRONOLOGICAL [/SEQUENTIAL]:
1) "FROM... TO [/UNTO the Messiah the Prince]" equals so many Weeks (v.25; 69 Weeks TOTAL [fulfilled on Palm Sunday: when Jesus SAID what He said, and DID what He did [pertaining to "THE CITY" (i.e. not an earlier point in time in His earthly ministry)]--see below)
2) AFTER the 62 Weeks [which follows the '7 Weeks'] shall he be "CUT OFF and have nothing" (v.26a [see below])
3) THEN "the PEOPLE OF [the prince that SHALL come]" SHALL DESTROY the CITY and the SANCTUARY (v.26b; i.e. the 70ad events [see below and the Scripture references I put re: that])--this is A PART of the "desolaTIONS [PLURAL] are determined" (per v.26b)
4) THEN (that is, AFTER the 70ad events [and not immediately after]) "the prince that/who SHALL COME" (this correlates with the "whose COMING is after the working of Satan" 2Th2:9a, AND is the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3; Matt24:4/Mk13:5 "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE' ['a certain one' bringing deception]" OF "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" that Jesus spoke of (which are the EQUIVALENT of the SEALS of Rev6 at the START of the "DOTL" TIME-PERIOD: 1Th5:2-3 its ARRIVAL), which are followed by MANY MORE "birth PANGS" (so SEAL #1 is the INITIAL one of those "BoBPs" at the START of the Trib yrs [see below])
5) THEN... "FOR ONE WEEK [7 years]" which pertains to the "he" of v.26b (not the "shall be CUT OFF [and have nothing]" one, of v.26a)
[further details of all this in the next post (or posts)... which will be a re-posting of past ones I've put... but the above ^ is its basic OUTLINE (for those who do not like reading in-depth or lengthy posts)... meaning, regarding the SEQUENTIAL nature of the Dan9:24-27 passage]
continuing...
[quoting past posts]
--the prophecy is concerning "[70 Wks] are determined upon THY [Daniel's] people, and upon THY [Daniel's] holy city..."
--the 62 Weeks [69 Wks total] concluded on Palm Sunday, when Jesus DID the Zech9:9 thing ["thy King cometh UNTO THEE" (re: "Jerusalem"/THE CITY)], and SAID the Lk19:42-44 thing [(when... He beheld "THE CITY," and wept over it) "If THOU hadst known, even THOU, at least in this THY day, the things which belong unto THY peace! BUT NOW they are hid from THINE eyes. For the days shall come upon THEE, that THINE enemies shall cast a trench about THEE, and compass about THEE [Lk21:23,20; Matt22:7], and keep THEE in on every side, And shall lay THEE even with the ground, and THY children within THEE; and they shall not leave in THEE one stone upon another; because THOU knewest not the time of THY visitation."]
--"And AFTER the 62 Weeks [69 Wks total], shall Messiah BE CUT OFF and HAVE NOTHING" [see the "CUT OFF" wording in: (see below) ]
[quoting old post]
"For I was like a gentle lamb led to slaughter; I did not know that they had plotted against me: “Let us destroy the tree with its fruit; let us cut him off [H3772] from the land of the living, that his name will be remembered no more.” " -- Jeremiah 11:19
https://biblehub.com/text/jeremiah/11-19.htm
[similar to the wording in Isaiah 53:7 which most see as corresponding with Matthew 26:61-63, 27:12-16; Mark 14:57-61, 15:3-4; Luke 23:8-11; John 19:9-10, Jesus' arrest / @ His trials that very week following the conclusion of the 69 Weeks total (Palm Sunday)... See also Zech14:2 there used with a negative, "not be cut off [from the city]"]
[notes: I know that Jer11:19 likely refers to Jeremiah the prophet, but I think is also a prophecy concerning Jesus; just like Psalm 72 ("the king chapter") pertains to both Solomon and Jesus; and it's commonly believed that in such contexts ^ , the phrase "the city" pertains to "Jerusalem" and the phrase "the land" (like in Jer11:19 above) pertains specifically to "Israel"; and this would correspond to the phrase in Dan9:26a "shall be cut off [/'but not for himself'; or, 'and have nothing' as some translations have it]"... this makes sense in view of both the prophecy of Dan9:24 which is concerning "DETERMINED UPON thy [Daniel's] people, AND UPON thy [Daniel's] HOLY CITY" and of His "be cut off," in view of these other passages (relating, as I see it)]
Acts 8:31-35 -
31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth. [<--perhaps TWO parts here in this verse; Part A and Part B, if you will]
34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
[again, see also Matthew 26:61-63, 27:12-16; Mark 14:57-61, 15:3-4; Luke 23:8-11; John 19:9-10 (re: Jesus' arrest / @ His trials)]
____________
John 11:45-55 -
The Plot to Kill Jesus
(Matthew 26:1-5; Mark 14:1-2; Luke 22:1-6)
45 Therefore [re: Lazarus having been raised from the dead] many of the Jews having come to Mary, and having seen what He did, believed in Him. 46 But some of them went to the Pharisees and told them what Jesus had done.
47 Therefore the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered a council and were saying, “What are we to do? For this man does many signs. 48 If we shall let Him alone like this, all will believe in Him, and the Romans will come and will take away both our place and nation.” https://biblehub.com/text/john/11-48.htm
49 But a certain one of them, Caiaphas, being high priest the same year, said to them, “You know nothing at all, 50 nor do you consider that it is profitable for you that one man should die for the people, and the whole nation should not perish.”
51 Now he did not say this from himself, but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus was about to die for the nation, 52 and not for the nation only, but also that children of God, those having been scattered, He might gather together into one.
[note: Eph1:10 does not refer to "in this present age [singular]" like the rest of the epistle does]
53 So from that day, they took counsel together that they might kill Him. 54 Therefore Jesus no longer walked publicly among the Jews, but went away from there into the region near the wilderness, to a city called Ephraim. And there He stayed with the disciples.
55 Now the Passover of the Jews was near, and many went up to Jerusalem out of the region before the Passover, so that they might purify themselves.
____________
[quoting Wm Kelly]
"The chief priests and the Pharisees are immediately on the alert. They assemble a council; they wonder at their own inactivity in presence of the many signs done by Jesus; they fear that, if left alone, He may become universally acceptable, and that they may provoke the Romans to destroy them, Church and State, as men now say. How affecting to see the power of Satan blinding those most who take the highest place in zeal for God after the flesh! It was their desperately wicked purpose to put Him to death-a purpose as desperately effected, which led to the cross, in which He did become the attractive centre to men of every class and nation and moral condition; and it was their guilt in this especially, though not this alone, which drew on them the wrath of "the king," who sent his forces, destroyed those murderers, and burnt their city [Matt22:7 (Lk19:41-44 said on Palm Sunday), and Lk21:23,20]. All righteous blood came upon them, and their house is left desolate unto this day, and this, too, by the dreaded hand of the Romans, whom they professed to propitiate by the death of Jesus. Such is the way and end of unbelief."
--William Kelly, Commentary on John 11 [source: Bible Hub; bracket mine]
[end quoting Wm Kelly]
[continued in next post]
[quoting past posts]
--the prophecy is concerning "[70 Wks] are determined upon THY [Daniel's] people, and upon THY [Daniel's] holy city..."
--the 62 Weeks [69 Wks total] concluded on Palm Sunday, when Jesus DID the Zech9:9 thing ["thy King cometh UNTO THEE" (re: "Jerusalem"/THE CITY)], and SAID the Lk19:42-44 thing [(when... He beheld "THE CITY," and wept over it) "If THOU hadst known, even THOU, at least in this THY day, the things which belong unto THY peace! BUT NOW they are hid from THINE eyes. For the days shall come upon THEE, that THINE enemies shall cast a trench about THEE, and compass about THEE [Lk21:23,20; Matt22:7], and keep THEE in on every side, And shall lay THEE even with the ground, and THY children within THEE; and they shall not leave in THEE one stone upon another; because THOU knewest not the time of THY visitation."]
--"And AFTER the 62 Weeks [69 Wks total], shall Messiah BE CUT OFF and HAVE NOTHING" [see the "CUT OFF" wording in: (see below) ]
[quoting old post]
"For I was like a gentle lamb led to slaughter; I did not know that they had plotted against me: “Let us destroy the tree with its fruit; let us cut him off [H3772] from the land of the living, that his name will be remembered no more.” " -- Jeremiah 11:19
https://biblehub.com/text/jeremiah/11-19.htm
[similar to the wording in Isaiah 53:7 which most see as corresponding with Matthew 26:61-63, 27:12-16; Mark 14:57-61, 15:3-4; Luke 23:8-11; John 19:9-10, Jesus' arrest / @ His trials that very week following the conclusion of the 69 Weeks total (Palm Sunday)... See also Zech14:2 there used with a negative, "not be cut off [from the city]"]
[notes: I know that Jer11:19 likely refers to Jeremiah the prophet, but I think is also a prophecy concerning Jesus; just like Psalm 72 ("the king chapter") pertains to both Solomon and Jesus; and it's commonly believed that in such contexts ^ , the phrase "the city" pertains to "Jerusalem" and the phrase "the land" (like in Jer11:19 above) pertains specifically to "Israel"; and this would correspond to the phrase in Dan9:26a "shall be cut off [/'but not for himself'; or, 'and have nothing' as some translations have it]"... this makes sense in view of both the prophecy of Dan9:24 which is concerning "DETERMINED UPON thy [Daniel's] people, AND UPON thy [Daniel's] HOLY CITY" and of His "be cut off," in view of these other passages (relating, as I see it)]
Acts 8:31-35 -
31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth. [<--perhaps TWO parts here in this verse; Part A and Part B, if you will]
34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
[again, see also Matthew 26:61-63, 27:12-16; Mark 14:57-61, 15:3-4; Luke 23:8-11; John 19:9-10 (re: Jesus' arrest / @ His trials)]
____________
John 11:45-55 -
The Plot to Kill Jesus
(Matthew 26:1-5; Mark 14:1-2; Luke 22:1-6)
45 Therefore [re: Lazarus having been raised from the dead] many of the Jews having come to Mary, and having seen what He did, believed in Him. 46 But some of them went to the Pharisees and told them what Jesus had done.
47 Therefore the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered a council and were saying, “What are we to do? For this man does many signs. 48 If we shall let Him alone like this, all will believe in Him, and the Romans will come and will take away both our place and nation.” https://biblehub.com/text/john/11-48.htm
49 But a certain one of them, Caiaphas, being high priest the same year, said to them, “You know nothing at all, 50 nor do you consider that it is profitable for you that one man should die for the people, and the whole nation should not perish.”
51 Now he did not say this from himself, but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus was about to die for the nation, 52 and not for the nation only, but also that children of God, those having been scattered, He might gather together into one.
[note: Eph1:10 does not refer to "in this present age [singular]" like the rest of the epistle does]
53 So from that day, they took counsel together that they might kill Him. 54 Therefore Jesus no longer walked publicly among the Jews, but went away from there into the region near the wilderness, to a city called Ephraim. And there He stayed with the disciples.
55 Now the Passover of the Jews was near, and many went up to Jerusalem out of the region before the Passover, so that they might purify themselves.
____________
[quoting Wm Kelly]
"The chief priests and the Pharisees are immediately on the alert. They assemble a council; they wonder at their own inactivity in presence of the many signs done by Jesus; they fear that, if left alone, He may become universally acceptable, and that they may provoke the Romans to destroy them, Church and State, as men now say. How affecting to see the power of Satan blinding those most who take the highest place in zeal for God after the flesh! It was their desperately wicked purpose to put Him to death-a purpose as desperately effected, which led to the cross, in which He did become the attractive centre to men of every class and nation and moral condition; and it was their guilt in this especially, though not this alone, which drew on them the wrath of "the king," who sent his forces, destroyed those murderers, and burnt their city [Matt22:7 (Lk19:41-44 said on Palm Sunday), and Lk21:23,20]. All righteous blood came upon them, and their house is left desolate unto this day, and this, too, by the dreaded hand of the Romans, whom they professed to propitiate by the death of Jesus. Such is the way and end of unbelief."
--William Kelly, Commentary on John 11 [source: Bible Hub; bracket mine]
[end quoting Wm Kelly]
[continued in next post]
continuing...
[quoting old posts]
Notice the phrase "the land of the living" in Jer11:19 ( in that post above ^ )... Which phrase is found 7x in Ezekiel (notice the CONTEXT of the first one) -
Ezekiel 26:20 -
"When I shall bring thee down with them that descend into the pit, with the people of old time, and shall set thee in the low parts of the earth, in places desolate of old, with them that go down to the pit, that thou be not inhabited; and I shall set glory in the land of the living;"
[see context from vv.2-3 - "2 Son of man, because that Tyrus hath said against Jerusalem, Aha, she is broken that was the gates of the people: she is turned unto me: I shall be replenished, now she is laid waste: 3 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Tyrus, and will cause many nations to come up against thee, as the sea causeth his waves to come up."]
Ezekiel 32:23 -
"Whose graves are set in the sides of the pit, and her company is round about her grave: all of them slain, fallen by the sword, which caused terror in the land of the living."
Ezekiel 32:24 -
"There is Elam and all her multitude round about her grave, all of them slain, fallen by the sword, which are gone down uncircumcised into the nether parts of the earth, which caused their terror in the land of the living; yet have they borne their shame with them that go down to the pit."
Ezekiel 32:25 -
"They have set her a bed in the midst of the slain with all her multitude: her graves are round about him: all of them uncircumcised, slain by the sword: though their terror was caused in the land of the living, yet have they borne their shame with them that go down to the pit: he is put in the midst of them that be slain."
Ezekiel 32:26 -
"There is Meshech, Tubal, and all her multitude: her graves are round about him: all of them uncircumcised, slain by the sword, though they caused their terror in the land of the living."
Ezekiel 32:27 -
"And they shall not lie with the mighty that are fallen of the uncircumcised, which are gone down to hell with their weapons of war: and they have laid their swords under their heads, but their iniquities shall be upon their bones, though they were the terror of the mighty in the land of the living."
Ezekiel 32:32 -
"For I have caused my terror in the land of the living: and he shall be laid in the midst of the uncircumcised with them that are slain with the sword, even Pharaoh and all his multitude, saith the Lord God."
[end quoting past posts]
____________
--this ^ (mainly) just covers up to the point of v.26a "shall Messiah be cut off, and have nothing"... the next part pertaining to the "desolaTIONS [PLURAL] are determined" (OF WHICH "the abominaTION [SINGULAR; that Jesus spoke of in particular, Matt24:15 (corresponding with SAME [SINGULAR] in Dan12:11 "... be SET UP H5414" and shall be/involve A CERTAIN NUMBER OF DAYS...) is A PART of the PLURAL "desolaTIONS" that Dan9:26b had spoken of--
...IOW, this ^ is related to the SECOND half the the ENTIRE period of TIME provided in v.27a "FOR ONE WEEK [7 yrs]"
...which ["FOR ONE WEEK [7 yrs]"] corresponds with the ARRIVAL of "the man of sin" "IN HIS TIME" (the "DARK/DARKNESS/IN THE NIGHT" ARRIVAL of "the DOTL" time-period which will unfold upon the earth,) when he DO all he is slated to DO during those 7 yrs:
--its BEGINNING-2Th2:3b,8a,9a/Dan9:27a[26b] "FOR ONE WEEK [7 yrs] (i.e. Matt24:4/Mk13:5/1Th5:2-3 and Rev6:2);
--its MIDDLE--2Th2:4/Dan9:27b (i.e. Matt24:15/Dan12:11 and Rev13:5-7,1 [vv.11-18 also]);
--its END--2Th2:8b/Dan9:27c (i.e. Matt24:29-31/Dan12:12 and Rev19:11-21)
[quoting old posts]
Notice the phrase "the land of the living" in Jer11:19 ( in that post above ^ )... Which phrase is found 7x in Ezekiel (notice the CONTEXT of the first one) -
Ezekiel 26:20 -
"When I shall bring thee down with them that descend into the pit, with the people of old time, and shall set thee in the low parts of the earth, in places desolate of old, with them that go down to the pit, that thou be not inhabited; and I shall set glory in the land of the living;"
[see context from vv.2-3 - "2 Son of man, because that Tyrus hath said against Jerusalem, Aha, she is broken that was the gates of the people: she is turned unto me: I shall be replenished, now she is laid waste: 3 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Tyrus, and will cause many nations to come up against thee, as the sea causeth his waves to come up."]
Ezekiel 32:23 -
"Whose graves are set in the sides of the pit, and her company is round about her grave: all of them slain, fallen by the sword, which caused terror in the land of the living."
Ezekiel 32:24 -
"There is Elam and all her multitude round about her grave, all of them slain, fallen by the sword, which are gone down uncircumcised into the nether parts of the earth, which caused their terror in the land of the living; yet have they borne their shame with them that go down to the pit."
Ezekiel 32:25 -
"They have set her a bed in the midst of the slain with all her multitude: her graves are round about him: all of them uncircumcised, slain by the sword: though their terror was caused in the land of the living, yet have they borne their shame with them that go down to the pit: he is put in the midst of them that be slain."
Ezekiel 32:26 -
"There is Meshech, Tubal, and all her multitude: her graves are round about him: all of them uncircumcised, slain by the sword, though they caused their terror in the land of the living."
Ezekiel 32:27 -
"And they shall not lie with the mighty that are fallen of the uncircumcised, which are gone down to hell with their weapons of war: and they have laid their swords under their heads, but their iniquities shall be upon their bones, though they were the terror of the mighty in the land of the living."
Ezekiel 32:32 -
"For I have caused my terror in the land of the living: and he shall be laid in the midst of the uncircumcised with them that are slain with the sword, even Pharaoh and all his multitude, saith the Lord God."
[end quoting past posts]
____________
--this ^ (mainly) just covers up to the point of v.26a "shall Messiah be cut off, and have nothing"... the next part pertaining to the "desolaTIONS [PLURAL] are determined" (OF WHICH "the abominaTION [SINGULAR; that Jesus spoke of in particular, Matt24:15 (corresponding with SAME [SINGULAR] in Dan12:11 "... be SET UP H5414" and shall be/involve A CERTAIN NUMBER OF DAYS...) is A PART of the PLURAL "desolaTIONS" that Dan9:26b had spoken of--
...IOW, this ^ is related to the SECOND half the the ENTIRE period of TIME provided in v.27a "FOR ONE WEEK [7 yrs]"
...which ["FOR ONE WEEK [7 yrs]"] corresponds with the ARRIVAL of "the man of sin" "IN HIS TIME" (the "DARK/DARKNESS/IN THE NIGHT" ARRIVAL of "the DOTL" time-period which will unfold upon the earth,) when he DO all he is slated to DO during those 7 yrs:
--its BEGINNING-2Th2:3b,8a,9a/Dan9:27a[26b] "FOR ONE WEEK [7 yrs] (i.e. Matt24:4/Mk13:5/1Th5:2-3 and Rev6:2);
--its MIDDLE--2Th2:4/Dan9:27b (i.e. Matt24:15/Dan12:11 and Rev13:5-7,1 [vv.11-18 also]);
--its END--2Th2:8b/Dan9:27c (i.e. Matt24:29-31/Dan12:12 and Rev19:11-21)
Yes, it does say that it is consecutive. I provided the scripture for you in the last post. Here it is again.
"He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.”
As I previously stated, the seven years is divided into two 3 1/2 year period, with the setting up of the abomination marking the middle point. As I also demonstrated to you, that the "He" in the scripture is in reference to the last person who was mentioned in verse 26 which is 'the ruler' of the people. He is the one who is in view in Daniel 9:27.
This last consecutive seven years set the stage for the return of Christ to end the age:
|-------------------------------------------- S E V E N Y E A R S---------------------------------------------|
|<---------- 3 1/2 YEARS-------------->ABOMINATION SET UP<---------- 3 1/2 YEARS------------->| Christ returns
Christ is not even mentioned in the last seven years. It is that future ruler of the people, that antichrist, the "He" in the verse that is in view.
John the Baptist is also not in view here. What have you been reading?
What you are doing now, is spreading just another false teaching.
The tribulation is seven years in length which is initiated when that ruler/antichrist establishes his covenant with Israel, with the great tribulation being the last 3 1/2 years of the seven year period and which begins with the setting up of the abomination and is described as a time of great tribulation unequaled from the beginning, until now and never to be equaled again, which will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, as well as the plagues that the two witnesses bring. With just the 4th seal and 6th trumpet (a fourth and a third respectively), over half the earths current population of that time will be killed within the first 3 1/2 years. And that is not counting the fatalities resulting from trumpets 1, 2 and 3, nor the seven bowl judgments. Because this is the wrath of God, then the church cannot be on the earth during that time, which is another reason why we cannot be already in the tribulation period, because the church is still here.
Many people make the same claims as you and that because they neither understand the principle of Christ experiencing God's wrath on behalf of every believer and they don't understand the severity and magnitude of God's coming wrath. That last seven years will be an unprecedented time.
In order for us to be in the tribulation period, the antichrist would have first had to have been revealed, for he is the represented by the rider on the white horse at the opening of the first seal.
The last seven years is what is coming, the Day of the Lord, The hour of trial, but the gathering of the church must take place first before that first seal is opened which initiates God's wrath, because we are not appointed to suffer God's wrath and that because Jesus already did.
Agreed. However, that does not mean that those that slept have risen.
"But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him."
"Then, when He comes, those who belong to him."
He hasn't come yet and those who belong to him, would be those who have died from the on-set of the church up until the resurrection. The OT saints of Israel are also apart of the first resurrection, but that phase takes place at a different time from the gathering of the church.
Since those those of the church who have died are next to resurrected, then then no other resurrection in the immortal and glorified body has yet taken place. Those at His coming are next.
"But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him."
"Then, when He comes, those who belong to him."
He hasn't come yet and those who belong to him, would be those who have died from the on-set of the church up until the resurrection. The OT saints of Israel are also apart of the first resurrection, but that phase takes place at a different time from the gathering of the church.
Since those those of the church who have died are next to resurrected, then then no other resurrection in the immortal and glorified body has yet taken place. Those at His coming are next.
Lafftur, Jesus was quoting the event of the 6th seal, which hasn't taken place yet:
Compare the two:
Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.
"Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”
Below is in reference to Matthew 24:15-22 which takes place when that abomination is set up in the holy place in the middle of the seven years, which hasn't happened yet, but will in the middle of that seven year period, which is still future.
Compare the two:
"For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck."
"How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers! Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath. For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again.
The meaning behind it, is the obvious hardship of fleeing at that time for those who are pregnant or who are nursing young children. This fleeing, which is the desolation caused by the setting up of the abomination, will be the reason for their fleeing. As I said, this is also synonymous with Revelation 12, where the woman/Israel flees out into the wilderness where she will be cared for during that 1260 days, which is the last 3 1/2 years of that seven year period.
In both of those scriptures above, Jesus was speaking about things that would take place leading up to the end of the age. The setting up of the abomination is the middle point of the seven years and is when that ruler/antichrist will cause the sacrifices and offerings to stop and when he will set up that abomination. Consequently, none of those events have yet taken place.
Compare the two:
Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.
"Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”
Below is in reference to Matthew 24:15-22 which takes place when that abomination is set up in the holy place in the middle of the seven years, which hasn't happened yet, but will in the middle of that seven year period, which is still future.
Compare the two:
"For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck."
"How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers! Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath. For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again.
The meaning behind it, is the obvious hardship of fleeing at that time for those who are pregnant or who are nursing young children. This fleeing, which is the desolation caused by the setting up of the abomination, will be the reason for their fleeing. As I said, this is also synonymous with Revelation 12, where the woman/Israel flees out into the wilderness where she will be cared for during that 1260 days, which is the last 3 1/2 years of that seven year period.
In both of those scriptures above, Jesus was speaking about things that would take place leading up to the end of the age. The setting up of the abomination is the middle point of the seven years and is when that ruler/antichrist will cause the sacrifices and offerings to stop and when he will set up that abomination. Consequently, none of those events have yet taken place.
The patriarchs are not in christ. They died in the ot format.
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
That is my find
the language says it all.
He HAS BECOME firstfruits of them that slept.
Aligns with the patriarchs risen and taken to heaven.
yes we know that
that is not the patriarchs raised at the rapture or the second coming.
"those who belong to him"
....is just that..could be the rapture..or just the fact that all those returning on horses are resurrected already
Has nothing to do with the patriarchs
we are talking about the resurrection.
So yes,it is talking about them risen and taken to heaven as firstfruits.
btw
they were seen risen and walking in Jerusalem.
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
That is my find
the language says it all.
He HAS BECOME firstfruits of them that slept.
Aligns with the patriarchs risen and taken to heaven.
yes we know that
that is not the patriarchs raised at the rapture or the second coming.
"those who belong to him"
....is just that..could be the rapture..or just the fact that all those returning on horses are resurrected already
Has nothing to do with the patriarchs
we are talking about the resurrection.
So yes,it is talking about them risen and taken to heaven as firstfruits.
btw
they were seen risen and walking in Jerusalem.
My point being is that, since those at His coming are next, then there was no one resurrected immortal and glorified in between.
Jesus was the first fruits and those who are next will be those at His coming. The patriarch's and OT saints will all be resurrected sometime towards the end of the age.
Those people who came out of their tombs died again. There were not raise immortal and glorified, any more than Lazarus or Jairus daughter. They all died again. The next group to be resurrected immortal and glorified will be the church at the Lord's appearing.
"But each in the own order: Christ the firstfruit, then those of Christ at His coming"
This Means that Christ was the first fruits and those at His coming are next, i.e. the church. Therefore, no one in between has been resurrected immortal and glorified. All of the patriarchs and the OT saints will be raised towards the end of the tribulation period. Consider what the angel told Daniel regarding this issue:
"At that time Michael, the great prince who stands watch over your people, will rise up. There will be a time of distress, the likes of which will not have occurred from the beginning of nations until that time. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered.
And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt
That "time of distress" is synonymous with the great tribulation mentioned in Matthew 24:15-22 and which is the time period when Daniel's people will be resurrected/delivered, i.e. sometimes during the end of that last 3 1/2 years.
That's how I read it. Currently, Jesus alone has been resurrected immortal and glorified, next will be the church (those at His coming) and then the OT saints, then after Christ returns to the earth the saints who will have died during the great tribulation will be resurrected immortal and glorified.
Jesus was the first fruits and those who are next will be those at His coming. The patriarch's and OT saints will all be resurrected sometime towards the end of the age.
Those people who came out of their tombs died again. There were not raise immortal and glorified, any more than Lazarus or Jairus daughter. They all died again. The next group to be resurrected immortal and glorified will be the church at the Lord's appearing.
"But each in the own order: Christ the firstfruit, then those of Christ at His coming"
This Means that Christ was the first fruits and those at His coming are next, i.e. the church. Therefore, no one in between has been resurrected immortal and glorified. All of the patriarchs and the OT saints will be raised towards the end of the tribulation period. Consider what the angel told Daniel regarding this issue:
"At that time Michael, the great prince who stands watch over your people, will rise up. There will be a time of distress, the likes of which will not have occurred from the beginning of nations until that time. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered.
And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt
That "time of distress" is synonymous with the great tribulation mentioned in Matthew 24:15-22 and which is the time period when Daniel's people will be resurrected/delivered, i.e. sometimes during the end of that last 3 1/2 years.
That's how I read it. Currently, Jesus alone has been resurrected immortal and glorified, next will be the church (those at His coming) and then the OT saints, then after Christ returns to the earth the saints who will have died during the great tribulation will be resurrected immortal and glorified.
Yes, I agree with you.
Why is Acts 2 not clear enough that there are no OT saints in heaven now, even after the cross?
Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Yet, Hebrews 11:5 uses the word "translation [G3331 - metathesis - noun (used 3x)]"...
[from BibleHub] - *G3331 -
Definition: a change, removal
Usage: (a) change, transformation, (b) removal.
3x -
Hebrews 7:12 N-NFS
GRK: καὶ νόμου μετάθεσις γίνεται
NAS: there takes place a change of law
KJV: of necessity a change also of the law.
INT: also of law a change takes place
Hebrews 11:5 N-GFS
GRK: γὰρ τῆς μεταθέσεως μεμαρτύρηται εὐαρεστηκέναι
NAS: that before his being taken up he was pleasing
KJV: his translation he had this testimony,
INT: indeed the taking up he was commended to have well pleased
Hebrews 12:27 N-AFS
GRK: τῶν σαλευομένων μετάθεσιν ὡς πεποιημένων
NAS: denotes the removing of those
KJV: signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken,
INT: of the [things] shaken removing as having been made
Hebrews 11:5 -
"By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation [*G3331 - metathesis] he had this testimony, that he pleased God."
[from BibleHub] - *G3331 -
Definition: a change, removal
Usage: (a) change, transformation, (b) removal.
3x -
Hebrews 7:12 N-NFS
GRK: καὶ νόμου μετάθεσις γίνεται
NAS: there takes place a change of law
KJV: of necessity a change also of the law.
INT: also of law a change takes place
Hebrews 11:5 N-GFS
GRK: γὰρ τῆς μεταθέσεως μεμαρτύρηται εὐαρεστηκέναι
NAS: that before his being taken up he was pleasing
KJV: his translation he had this testimony,
INT: indeed the taking up he was commended to have well pleased
Hebrews 12:27 N-AFS
GRK: τῶν σαλευομένων μετάθεσιν ὡς πεποιημένων
NAS: denotes the removing of those
KJV: signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken,
INT: of the [things] shaken removing as having been made
Hebrews 11:5 -
"By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation [*G3331 - metathesis] he had this testimony, that he pleased God."