Why it will be a pre-trib rapture and why the rapture takes place.

[CS1]

Doesn't the resurrection take place in one day, the LAST DAY.

Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing but should raise it up again at the last day.
Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The resurrection of the righteous dead yet " 1Three 4:13-18

the dead "in Christ" shall rise first, then we which are alive and remain" those unrighteous dead the grave will not be moved, those unsaved living will not be taken up.

When Jesus comes back HE will setup HIS Kingdom on earth and rule here on earth after which then the final judgment.

I am going to say this as I see it is the scripture which most here agrees with to appoint

1. the Antichrist will literally rule on the earth during the tribulation period
2. he will set up a rule that all men must worship him or be killed

Why is it that only the antichrist has the ability to rule on the earth with saved and unsaved people but Jesus can't?
Why is it the antichrist has the power to do great things but Jesus can't remove those who HE said are not under the wrath of God that is being poured out on us?

 

[CS1]

Doesn't the resurrection take place in one day, the LAST DAY.

Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing but should raise it up again at the last day.
Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The resurrection of the righteous dead yet " 1Three 4:13-18

the dead "in Christ" shall rise first, then we which are alive and remain" those unrighteous dead the grave will not be moved, those unsaved living will not be taken up.

When Jesus comes back HE will setup HIS Kingdom on earth and rule here on earth after which then the final judgment.

I am going to say this as I see it is the scripture which most here agrees with to appoint

1. the Antichrist will literally rule on the earth during the tribulation period
2. he will set up a rule that all men must worship him or be killed

Why is it that only the antichrist has the ability to rule on the earth with saved and unsaved people but Jesus can't?
Why is it the antichrist has the power to do great things but Jesus can't remove those who HE said are not under the wrath of God that is being poured out on us?

 

[KJV1611]

The resurrection of the righteous dead yet " 1Three 4:13-18

the dead "in Christ" shall rise first, then we which are alive and remain" those unrighteous dead the grave will not be moved, those unsaved living will not be taken up.

When Jesus comes back HE will setup HIS Kingdom on earth and rule here on earth after which then the final judgment.

I am going to say this as I see it is the scripture which most here agrees with to appoint

1. the Antichrist will literally rule on the earth during the tribulation period
2. he will set up a rule that all men must worship him or be killed

Why is it that only the antichrist has the ability to rule on the earth with saved and unsaved people but Jesus can't?
Why is it the antichrist has the power to do great things but Jesus can't remove those who HE said are not under the wrath of God that is being poured out on us?

So you're saying the resurrection on the last day is only for believers?

 

[KJV1611]

There hasn't been a "Dead in Christ" since the resurrection of Christ. Everybody, including all believers alive at his resurrection were raised on the last day.

 

[CS1]

So you're saying the resurrection on the last day is only for believers?

no I'm saying the bible teaches us of the removal of the Church prior to the great tribulation which is Gods wrath poured out on the earth. The antichrist can't be revealed until the church is taken out of the way do you know why that has to happen?

because the devil can't win against the church and God will not have HIS bride suffer under HIS Judgement for us to prove we love HIM. Jesus can and has raised the dead at different times we see when Jesu shouted it is finished and the graves were open and the Prophets of old were seen walking around explain that? Explain Enoch, explain Elijah? Explain Acts 1:11 explain to me where the Church is after Chapter 4 of REV?

 

[KJV1611]

no I'm saying the bible teaches us of the removal of the Church prior to the great tribulation which is Gods wrath poured out on the earth. The antichrist can't be revealed until the church is taken out of the way do you know why that has to happen?

because the devil can't win against the church and God will not have HIS bride suffer under HIS Judgement for us to prove we love HIM. Jesus can and has raised the dead at different times we see when Jesu shouted it is finished and the graves were open and the Prophets of old were seen walking around explain that? Explain Enoch, explain Elijah? Explain Acts 1:11 explain to me where the Church is after Chapter 4 of REV?

"The rapture" happens at the same time as the resurrection, in fact what you guys call the rapture IS THE RESURRECTION. The dead in Christ is the key to understanding the NON-EXISTENT rapture. If we don't know who they were then we have no way of understanding what being "caught up in the clouds" means.

 

[KJV1611]

You guys believe in things that aren't even remotely close to what the bible teaches.... and it seems as though you're happy with it. I just don't understand. You can't just pick and choose bible verses and bible versions and Greek and Hebrew words and expect to come to God's truth.

 

[CS1]

"The rapture" happens at the same time as the resurrection, in fact what you guys call the rapture IS THE RESURRECTION. The dead in Christ is the key to understanding the NON-EXISTENT rapture. If we don't know who they were then we have no way of understanding what being "caught up in the clouds" means.

I think you are mistaken when you say we don't know or understand what " Caught up in the cloud means".

• Did Jesus literally rise from the dead y/n?
• did Jesus literally ascend into the sky and received out of sight by the clouds y/n?
• Did Jesus say I go-to place to prepare for you that where I am there you will be also in John 14:1-4 was that a literal place y/n?

 

[KJV1611]

I think you are mistaken when you say we don't know or understand what " Caught up in the cloud means".

• Did Jesus literally rise from the dead y/n?
• did Jesus literally ascend into the sky and received out of sight by the clouds y/n?
• Did Jesus say I go-to place to prepare for you that where I am there you will be also in John 14:1-4 was that a literal place y/n?

We have two choices for the clouds.

1) Water vapor in the sky.
2) Heb_12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

You have made up you're mind that the clouds are water vapor in the sky and I wont try to convince you otherwise.

Of course Jesus rose from the dead along with probably hundreds or thousands of the Old Testament DEAD IN CHRIST saints.

Yes Jesus ascended along with the TEN THOUSANDS of his saints that rose with him.

Yes Jesus went and prepared a place, that's why the OT saints rose... rising has nothing to do with their dead bodies. Those few who rose bodily and walked the streets of Jerusalem did so in judgement against Israel.

 

[CS1]

We have two choices for the clouds.

1) Water vapor in the sky.
2) Heb_12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

You have made up you're mind that the clouds are water vapor in the sky and I wont try to convince you otherwise.

Of course Jesus rose from the dead along with probably hundreds or thousands of the Old Testament DEAD IN CHRIST saints.

Yes Jesus ascended along with the TEN THOUSANDS of his saints that rose with him.

Yes Jesus went and prepared a place, that's why the OT saints rose... rising has nothing to do with their dead bodies. Those few who rose bodily and walked the streets of Jerusalem did so in judgement against Israel.

NO, you have the context of Acts 1 which I provided you can't look at Hebrew 12:1 to read into the context of what we see in Acts chapter one. That is an error. You want to do a scientific project on vapor be my guess by I added you about the word of God, specify Acts 1, John 14:1-4.

 

[KJV1611]

NO, you have the context of Acts 1 which I provided you can't look at Hebrew 12:1 to read into the context of what we see in Acts chapter one. That is an error. You want to do a scientific project on vapor be my guess by I added you about the word of God, specify Acts 1, John 14:1-4.

And this comes from a person who is telling me that the resurrection comes in phases. Look I don't want to argue with you. You are free to believe whatever you want. I only present what God has shown me in the bible, people can take it or leave it.

 

[pottersclay]

@pottersclay
You didn't know the resurrection was an event that takes place in one day did you, the LAST DAY?

I mean the OT saints were raised and you call them the firstfuits of the resurrection and you say there will be another harvest at the end of the world. Well, how does that fit when the resurrection is on the last day?

Use your critical thinking skills, put those things together (those verses and Daniel) and then you'll understand, the rapture, the resurrection and the second coming. And then you will find out that everything that what you're teaching people is completely wrong.

It's laid right out there before you, all you have to do is believe it.

There are 2 resurrections for sure possible 3 if your counting the great white throne judgement.

 

[KJV1611]

There are 2 resurrections for sure possible 3 if your counting the great white throne judgement.

So we’re pretty much tossing out Jesus saying the resurrection is on the last day?

 

[pottersclay]

So we’re pretty much tossing out Jesus saying the resurrection is on the last day?

Not at all. My focus was on the harvesting not the resurrection. And as you said you don't believe in the pre trib so why should I bother you with that.
You know when paul said he will show you a mystery, that word mystery is not like some stephen king novel mystery thing. That word mystery means hidden in the context.
Paul as I said before being a Sanhedrin jew knew the laws of the offerings and was pointing to the wave offering that needed to be presented before any other harvesting is done.

I focused on the harvesting not the resurrection. First fruits offering. Your the one in error champ.

Wish they had a bouncing ball you could follow here.

 

[KJV1611]

Not at all. My focus was on the harvesting not the resurrection. And as you said you don't believe in the pre trib so why should I bother you with that.
You know when paul said he will show you a mystery, that word mystery is not like some stephen king novel mystery thing. That word mystery means hidden in the context.
Paul as I said before being a Sanhedrin jew knew the laws of the offerings and was pointing to the wave offering that needed to be presented before any other harvesting is done.

I focused on the harvesting not the resurrection. First fruits offering. Your the one in error champ.

Wish they had a bouncing ball you could follow here.

I thought you said the OT saints were the firstfruits of the resurrection. Am I mistaken?

 

[pottersclay]

I thought you said the OT saints were the firstfruits of the resurrection. Am I mistaken?

Those that died in faith. Evidence of that in matthew.

 

[pottersclay]

behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

I thought you said only one?

 

[KJV1611]

behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

I thought you said only one?

Yeah and that was the one. As I have stated on numerous occasions, the resurrection has nothing to do with raising dead earthly bodies. Some of those OT saints were raised bodily as a witness against the Jews.

The resurrection is resurrection from death to life just like we experience when we come to Christ. The OT saints were already dead in Christ, that’s why they got glorified bodies. We will do the same when it’s time for us to leave this earth.

The resurrection never ends, as soon as someone is saved, they are passed from
Death to life and never die again. This body will die when God pulls our spirit out of it. But we will never see it, we’ll be gone when it happens. Comfort one another with these words.

 

[Absolutely]

Hi Absolutely,

I think you misunderstand. The people who resurrected, i.e. stood back up in their bodies and came out of their tombs, were not resurrected into their immortal and glorified bodies, but back into their mortal bodies. They resurrected in the same manner as Lazarus and Jairus' daughter, i.e. back into their mortal bodies and then at some point died again. The reference to them being taken into captivity to heaven, would be referring to their spirits, not their bodies. Case in point, Lazarus and the rich man died and then their spirits departed their bodies, both going to Hades, Lazarus on the side of comfort/paradise and the rich man on the side of torment in flame.

To be clear about this, Abraham, king David, Jacob and all of the twelve tribes and all OT saints, their bodies are still in the ground. However, their spirits are in heaven. It is the same for those believers who have died in Christ. At the time of death, their spirits departed their bodies and went to be in presence of the Lord, where they are looking forward to the resurrection from there.

According to the scripture, the next group that is to be resurrected in their immortal and glorified bodies, is the church (those at His appearing).

Since Jesus' resurrection, no one else or no other group has resurrected in their immortal and glorified bodies.

Jesus was the first fruits of those who have resurrected immortal and glorified and the church is next.

"" I think you misunderstand. The people who resurrected, i.e. stood back up in their bodies and came out of their tombs, were not resurrected into their immortal and glorified bodies, but back into their mortal bodies. ""

The dead in Christ are raised from the dead the same as all are raised from the dead.

The dead in Christ THEN ASCEND bodily as do the living. Then,we all,are given glorified bodies.

I have yet to see you reconcile "Jesus took captivity captive" (took them to heaven)

 

[Ahwatukee]

"" I think you misunderstand. The people who resurrected, i.e. stood back up in their bodies and came out of their tombs, were not resurrected into their immortal and glorified bodies, but back into their mortal bodies. ""

Hello Absolutely!

Where did you get the idea that I was saying that those who came out of their tombs did so in their immortal and glorified bodies? If you go back and read my posts (any of them), I have been teaching that all of the people that Jesus or the Apostles brought back to life such as Lazarus, Jairus' 12 year old daughter, Tabitha whom Peter raised and the young man who fell out of the window, etc. All of these and others were resurrected back into their mortal bodies and they died again. That is what I have been teaching. I have also been saying that no one but Jesus has yet been resurrected in His immortal and glorified. Jesus is the first fruits of those who rise from the dead in their immortal and glorified bodies and the church as a group, is next.

I have yet to see you reconcile "Jesus took captivity captive" (took them to heaven)

I did mention this in a recent post. Those that Jesus took captivity, would be those OT saints who were in the comfort/paradise area of Hades. Everyone in Christ who dies now, their spirits depart from their body and go to be in the presence of the Lord. I mentioned this in a previous post citing the following two scriptures:

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Therefore we are always confident, although we know that while we are at home in the body, we are away from the Lord. For we walk by faith, not by sight. We are confident, then, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. So what shall I choose? I do not know. I am torn between the two. I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better indeed. But it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body.
=============================================================================

Therefore, the OT saints and those who have died in Christ, their spirits are in heaven in the presence of the Lord and are awaiting for the resurrection of their immortal and glorified bodies from heaven side.