Why it will be a pre-trib rapture and why the rapture takes place.

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TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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#81
The marriage is between Christ and our souls individually, there is no corporate marriage.
The translation has nothing to do with the wedding feast nor the marriage, the translation is the translation out of this earthly body into our heavenly bodies.
We've already gone over the grammar issue in 1Th4:17... the wording makes clear that the "caught up TOGETHER" means "[that VERB-ACTION (for both)]... AT THE SAME TIME" takes place (not individually, at varying points of time all throughout history whenever believers [their bodies] die, as you suggest ;) )
 
Mar 23, 2016
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#82
Now jesus is the Passover lamb but also the high priest.
The high priest duty's were to present the offerings to the Lord.
There is a particular offering know as the grain offering which goes to the wave offering.
Did you know that Jesus was not only the Passover lamb but also all the offerings that were presented to the Lord.
Yes ... firstfruits ... so awesome!!!



 
Nov 23, 2013
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#83
I've been meaning to ask you ( @KJV1611 ) this... do you also believe "Armageddon" has also already taken place?

Or, do you view that as representative of something else that takes place all throughout time and history??



[Rev19:19,21/16:14-16/20:5 = Isa24:21-22a[23]'s FIRST of TWO "PUNISH" words in that passage (that is, at the time of His Second Coming to the earth)... do you believe this has already taken place??]
I haven't studied Armageddon that much but it's probably talking about the destruction of earthly Jerusalem. I wouldn't say that it's impossible that it's future, just unlikely.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#84
We've already gone over the grammar issue in 1Th4:17... the wording makes clear that the "caught up TOGETHER" means "[that VERB-ACTION (for both)]... AT THE SAME TIME" takes place (not individually, at varying points of time all throughout history whenever believers [their bodies] die, as you suggest ;) )
Either way, the translation has nothing to do with the marriage. Those are two completely separate things.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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#85
Either way, the translation has nothing to do with the marriage. Those are two completely separate things.
Excerpted from my Post #78 :
"... and so [/thus/in this manner] always WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with] the Lord we shall be" - 1Th4:17


This ^ "WITH [G4862 - syn - UNIONed-with]" word is distinct from the "with [G3326 - meta - accompanying]" word as found in Matt25:10--the "10 Virgins/Bridesmaids" parable (<--which is not about US).

Again... 2Cor11:2... "present A CHASTE VIRGIN [SINGULAR] to Christ."
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#86
Jul 23, 2018
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#87
Daniel was told he would "rest [that is, in death] and stand in thy lot [that is, be 'resurrected' 'to stand again' on the earth] at the END OF THE DAYS," that is, at the END of a VERY SPECIFIC SET OF DAYS [ the 'days' in that context--which CONTEXT is referring to 2nd half of trib, so at the END of THOSE particular "days"].

Thus, I DISAGREE that it was any "OT saints" who were taken to Heaven on Firstfruits (His Resurrection Day).

And I also disagree that it was them who make up the "24 elders".

[I've mentioned in past posts I believe the term "was found" (5:4) provides timing-clues, not to mention 1:1/1:19c/4:1 also provides the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" timing clue to everything following 4:1 (to Rev19 and parts of 20, anyway)]



Peter (I believe, for a REASON) told those in Acts 2:29 (some time after Christ's Resurrection Day), "Men, brothers, it is permitted me to speak with freedom to you concerning the patriarch David, that both he died and was buried, and his tomb is among us unto this day "... Peter is not just saying, "[it] is among us UNTO THIS DAY" as a souvenir. ;) No.
John was told "I am a fellow servant with you and your fellow prophets..."

That alone makes it so
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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#88
Saint I see your view point but stay tuned because the rapture has to happen and will....so the rest of the story continues☺
I see his viewpoint also

“And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters:

and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭7:14-17‬ ‭

they came through a great tribulation in order to arrive where they are . What those folks are is the church gathered as we pass away we are gathered into his kingdom

the people in heaven have been redeemed from the earth

“And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them.

Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that is when the tribulation began

“And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

If any man have an ear, let him hear.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭13:6-9‬ ‭


Right now the gospel is all throughout the world , preached in all nations for salvation , the reason is right there in that last part

Satan has been given authority on earth Over mankind because we having dominion on earth , partook of his will rather than Gods.

so from the time of the gospel until right now we have the enemy and his angels in this world who have power over mankind , this is the reason we have to be in Christ . When we come into Christ we are dying to the operation of this world , and being born into the kingdom of God He is our strong tower in this earth the only place where Satan doesn’t have power right now on earth is in Christ .

because he has been given authority for a time , the gospel was sent into all those same places to those same people so they can escape the world That binds is to death if they will do this

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭

“ the rapture “ happens spiritually when we receive the gospel being delivered from the bonds of death upon our spirit

“And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:6-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so we can be saved from this creations fate and delivered into the true promised land in the age to come When we will receive our new body for our saved spirit which is raptured from death when we pass away if we of course have overcome this world and the tribulations we face in our estate here for a short time but glory waits ahead

if we make an effort to live as jesus taught us , we find there is much tribulation to be found in this world but if we embrace the world and live as we belong to it , we don’t find tribulations so much in this life as a paradise If we embrace the flesh

“For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:16-17‬ ‭
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#89
Now saints this is the exciting part.
As I mentioned before the grain or wheat offering and the wave offering.
Both of them were presented to the Lord in a special way. I'm just going to list the facts on the offerings please feel free to fact check.

They were not to be touched by human hands...... undefiled
This is why jesus told Mary at the tomb to not touch him for he has not ascended yet. He ascended on the first day of the week as well as the 40 day which was his physical Ascension.

The wave was waved in the air in front of the people by the high priest.

Now and very important no other harvest could be harvested untill this was done and excepted by God.

These are just the facts on these offerings that took place according to Gods instructions...

So what paul was saying....the dead in christ (those who died in the faith) and we that remain upon the earth shall be caught up together in the air.
Why???? Because we are the first fruits of Christ .
The first fruits of Christ are those who were saved by the gospel of Christ, those who died in the faith.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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#91
Now saints this is the exciting part.
As I mentioned before the grain or wheat offering and the wave offering.
Both of them were presented to the Lord in a special way. I'm just going to list the facts on the offerings please feel free to fact check.

They were not to be touched by human hands...... undefiled
This is why jesus told Mary at the tomb to not touch him for he has not ascended yet. He ascended on the first day of the week as well as the 40 day which was his physical Ascension.
Agreed. I point this out, also. (However, I believe they were, both times, bodily/physical... the FIRST one not witnessed VISIBLY by anyone, as the SECOND one WAS [in the LATER Acts 1 ascension])
So what paul was saying....the dead in christ (those who died in the faith) and we that remain upon the earth shall be caught up together in the air.
Why???? Because we are the first fruits of Christ .
The first fruits of Christ are those who were saved by the gospel of Christ, those who died in the faith.
Agree, pretty much... but I say it is both the "dead in Christ" AND the "we which are living and remaining unto" (BOTH aspects of the ONE BODY who are the firstfruit... of "a certain KIND"--YES!! Glad to know someone "gets it"!! Amen!)



[note: in past posts I've pointed out how I believe "the 144,000" are "firstfruit" of the "WHEAT harvest--a distinct "harvest"--as the wording in both Lev23:17 and Rev14:4 parallel each other (Lev23:17 says, "TWO loaves" and "baken WITH LEAVEN")]
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#92
Now saints this is the exciting part.
As I mentioned before the grain or wheat offering and the wave offering.
Both of them were presented to the Lord in a special way. I'm just going to list the facts on the offerings please feel free to fact check.

They were not to be touched by human hands...... undefiled
This is why jesus told Mary at the tomb to not touch him for he has not ascended yet. He ascended on the first day of the week as well as the 40 day which was his physical Ascension.

The wave was waved in the air in front of the people by the high priest.

Now and very important no other harvest could be harvested untill this was done and excepted by God.

These are just the facts on these offerings that took place according to Gods instructions...

So what paul was saying....the dead in christ (those who died in the faith) and we that remain upon the earth shall be caught up together in the air.
Why???? Because we are the first fruits of Christ .
The first fruits of Christ are those who were saved by the gospel of Christ, those who died in the faith.
The Old Testament saints were saved by the gospel of Christ, why aren’t they the firstfruits of Christ as we are told here.

Rev 14:4 (KJV) These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#93
You see the appointed times are for the redemption of man jew and gentile alike.
Our high priest works are to present the offerings to the Lord.

Now as the omer is counted we see jesus broke the count. Instead of 49 it was 40 days of his Ascension. Yet pentecost had arrived or has it?
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#94
The Old Testament saints were saved by the gospel of Christ, why aren’t they the firstfruits of Christ as we are told here.

Rev 14:4 (KJV) These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
They are the ones that died in the faith....read hebrews to understand.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#95
They are the ones that died in the faith....read hebrews to understand.
Yes they died in faith in Jesus Christ just like us. They were in Christ just like us, the only difference between them and us is that they weren’t called Christians because the term “Christian” wasn’t coined until New Testament times.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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#96
^ I believe the phrases "the dead IN Christ" and Hebrews 11:13's "according to [kata] faith ['these [G3778] all died'--spk'g of those in vv.8-12, in particular]" are distinct things (and not referring to the same saints [of the same TIME-PERIOD], if that makes sense).




[all "saints" are SAVED saints... they just don't ALL come to faith within the same time-period/time-slots ;) and this is a distinction in the various "harvests" as I see it... like James 1:18 says "'a certain KIND' of firstfruit"]
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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#97
Paul bends over backwards (so to speak), throughout his epistles, to tell "the Church which is His body" (that's us) things like the following:

"cleanse out, therefore, the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, according as ye are unleavened, for also our passover for us was sacrificed -- Christ" 1Cor5:7




["according as ye are unleavened" is stating the fact]
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#98
^ I believe the phrases "the dead IN Christ" and Hebrews 11:13's "according to [kata] faith ['these [G3778] all died'--spk'g of those in vv.8-12, in particular]" are distinct things (and not referring to the same saints [of the same TIME-PERIOD], if that makes sense).




[all "saints" are SAVED saints... they just don't ALL come to faith within the same time-period/time-slots ;) and this is a distinction in the various "harvests" as I see it... like James 1:18 says "'a certain KIND' of firstfruit"]
I agree that they are saints of a different kind. They died in faith looking forward to their redemption. They couldn’t go directly to be with the Lord because Christ hadn’t paid the price of their redemption yet.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#99
Paul bends over backwards (so to speak), throughout his epistles, to tell "the Church which is His body" (that's us) things like the following:

"cleanse out, therefore, the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, according as ye are unleavened, for also our passover for us was sacrificed -- Christ" 1Cor5:7




["according as ye are unleavened" is stating the fact]
If I’m not mistaken, the body of Christ consists only of people who are alive. We are the body of Christ because the spirit of Christ is in us. Once we die, the term body of Christ is a moot term.