Why Joseph Prince is a Cancerous Growth within God's People

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Feb 7, 2015
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#21
Well.... He IS on several top 10-15 wealthiest televangelists lists..... LOL
I happen to have a little money. And I did at his age, too (He's in his 50's, I believe). But he had little when he helped start that first tiny church thirty-some years ago. And I had next to nothing when I started out. We both worked for it.

He has worked hard, and he has been blessed. Are we so jealous of anyone who has attained some substance in life that we have to accuse them of all sorts of things to appease our jealousy?
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#22
In order to keep the slander and malice down to a minimum - here is a post from our very own CC member JGIG and this is her synopsis of things.



" Welcome, and may God grant you wisdom and discernment as you consider all of these things.

The thing about false teachers is this: They are a dime-a-dozen. In order for the Body to be protected, She needs to know what Truth is, so the primary goal at JGIG is to build believers up in who they are in Christ so that when a falsehood comes across their path, they'll readily recognize and reject it.

If more believers were focused on building each other up and spurring each other on to maturity, less sheep would be getting fleeced and the false teachers would have far fewer vulnerable folks to take advantage of.

I do know one thing: Scaring the sheep does nothing to EQUIP them. It only makes them suspicious and untrusting of everyone and everything. Many drop out of fellowship altogether because they come to believe there is no safe place; no good churches out there. It's a sad state of affairs where segments of the Body are more fearful and neurotic than the world we're supposed to be ministering to!



I don't ascribe to the 'name it claim it' stereotypical health and wealth WOF paradigm.

That said, I don't reject that God does heal and does bless us because He loves us and in order for us to bless others, either, and often does so in unexplainable ways.

I listen to teachers who are on both sides of that fence - you can go to the Media Page on my site and read through teachers that I recommend who do an excellent job of communicating the Gospel. I have a short write-up about each teacher with what I like and if there are any caveats I think need to be given. Any disagreements I have with any of them are far outweighed by the good fruit of their ministries and the overall sound teaching that they offer.

Everyone needs to weigh what they see and hear - folks need to pray for discernment and listen to the Spirit of God within them and compare what they're hearing/seeing to what the Bible plainly AND contextually says.

Example in Discernment - Joseph Prince

Let me take a teacher who has gotten both support and raked over the coals here at CC, Joseph Prince. I've watched/listened to a bunch of his stuff, and in my opinion, he's one of the best teachers of the Gospel, the New Covenant, the Work of Christ, and the High Priesthood of Christ, and he lovingly and with good humor, builds up the believer in who they are in Christ. He also has a great ability to show how nearly everything in the Old Testament points to and foreshadows the realities that are in Christ.

That said, I think his teaching on the Lord's Supper is a little weird, and he does lean toward the 'claim your healing' mentality, which is, I believe, a reflection of his WOF 'roots' (self admitted). Those are the only things I have disagreements with him on that I've found (and I don't listen to him regularly, but have listened to a bunch of his stuff).

Regarding his teachings on wealth/prosperity, one needs to understand a few things:

  1. Joseph Prince defines prosperity as having what you need plus extra so that you can bless/minister to others


  1. Joseph Prince does not take a salary from his church (hasn't for years)


  1. Joseph Prince's income is from his books


  1. There are very active ministries at JP's church - they are not just a bunch of money-grubbing, selfish people looking to live in nice houses and drive nice cars. New Creation Church is a pipeline where money flows in, money flows out in ministry: New Creation Church - Outreach


  1. Joseph Prince's broadcasts - every single one that I've heard - ALWAYS says that they believe that your giving should go to your local church FIRST, and that if you feel led, that they welcome any support you feel led to give to them. There is NO 'sow your seed with this ministry and God will bless you' schtick AT ALL at NCC or preached by JP.

Heresy Hunters and Joseph Prince

Now some heresy hunters will often cite JP's self-admitted WOF 'roots' and then go about tearing apart Kenneth Hagin and every other WOF teacher they can think of in their articles that are 'exposing' Joseph Prince.

Other heresy hunters will rip JP apart and call him a false teacher because he teaches eternal security. Then the Reformed heresy hunters will tell us how JP must be a heretic because he believes that the gifts of the Spirit are for today. The Holiness heresy hunters will rail against JP's teachings about Grace.

FEW, IF ANY of them will have sat down and actually watched a number of JP's teachings and evaluated what he actually teaches, but instead join in the feeding frenzy of snippets taken out of context by other heresy hunters aiming to take him down. Meanwhile, his teaching is setting thousands and thousands of viewers free and his ministry is flourishing.

Where these types cross the line is when they turn a disagreement that they have with someone doctrinally on a secondary issue and turn it into "So and so is a heretic/satanist/controlled by a demon" type stuff. Gee whiz, people! State your disagreement, give your opinion, back it up with what you believe Scripture has to say on the matter, and let the reader/listener/viewer examine the issues and make up their own mind.

It's always instructive to look into the 'ministries' of these heresy hunting types - their overall demeanor, who they DO approve of and what those folks teach, and the fruit of their ministries. Many times they're just miserable, wounded, Christians who don't fellowship in real churches and interact with real people where they have to build real relationships but limit their interaction with others to the internet.
_____________________________________________

So for those on this thread who don't know me as well as others, I'm not a naïve type of believer who thinks all is posies and daffodils out there - I know that's not true. There is an Enemy out there who actively seeks to do harm to the Body of Christ.

I also know that He Who is in me is GREATER than he who is in the world! The Enemy has NO power I don't give him. The Enemy was defeated at the Cross and his greatest remaining weapon is deception. The best defense? KNOW WHAT'S TRUE AND STAND ON IT. The Gospel is the core of all Truth, and when we have a firm grasp on

  • Who Christ is
  • What He came to do
  • What that actually accomplished, and
  • What that means for those who put their faith and trust in Christ and who they are in Him.

. . . and we equip ourselves and other believers with those foundational Truths, then when someone with something that is counterfeit approaches them, they'll recognize it and know to reject it because of how well they know what's TRUE in CHRIST.

The solution to false/bad teaching out there is building up and equipping the Body of Christ about who She is in Christ. Address falsehoods, show where they are in error, and then move on to building up and equipping with contextual, Biblical Truth.

And this is long and I'll end it here. Kudos to you if you made it this far :).

Grace and peace,
-JGIG
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#23
what has this place come too?

I did not know this place was a place where people could slam, and make accusations (most if not all which have been proven as false accusations all over this chatroom for weeks now by quite a few people) against a person who can not defend his or her self. But a place we are supposed to discuss the word of God.

 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
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#24
Well.... He IS on several top 10-15 wealthiest televangelists lists..... LOL
This is not true. This is a perfect example of spreading information that has not been verified. These "lists" did not have the accurate information. It is really unfortunate that believers spread things of this nature that malign a fellow believer that is in Christ whether it be intentional or unintentional.

Singapore News: 22 Oct 2014

[UPDATED on 22 Oct 2014 at 9am: Adding response from New Creation Church]
Pastor Joseph Prince's net worth is ‘substantially lower’ than the US$5 million (S$6.3 million) alleged by online reports, said a statement from New Creation Church.

The statement posted on 21 October on the church’s website added that the church is “disappointed with the manner in which the reports were generated and circulated without proper effort having being made to validate the facts”.

Earlier this month, US-based luxury lifestyle website RichestLifestyle.com named the New Creation Church founder and senior pastor as the 10th richest pastor in the world.

Its list puts 51-year-old Prince, a Singaporean, at number 10, with an estimated net worth of about S$6.3 million and an annual salary of close to S$700,000. According to a report by CelebrityNetWorth.com, however, Prince has not been on the church's payroll since 2009, a detail that was later confirmed by the church's most recent statement.

Here is the real truth website.

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/new-creat...est-pastors--lifestyle-website-072923468.html

Here is another news report from AsiaOne News.

Joseph Prince not one of world's top 10 richest pastors: New Creation Church, AsiaOne Singapore News
 
E

ember

Guest
#25
sooner or later, what people are hiding in their hearts comes out

this thread, is one of the finest examples of that principal in these forums

I would not want to be the person who began this mess...

my first and last post in this shameful exhibition of a failure to understand that we are judged as we judge

that is Jesus talking and He is talking about personal behavior...not doctrine and that is the 2nd time I have written that today
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,834
981
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#26
So many people hurting and lashing out... sigh. Instead of defending Joseph Prince, I am just going to presume you didn't get results or you know someone that didn't (in the area of healing or finance). You may say that those things don't work, but you can't ignore the people it did work for. VVhat does that say? If you're honest you have to get to the bottom of it, ask the Lord.

You wish to malice a preacher of God because of your own or others lack of results, but that is fruitless. You end of defaming someone God is working through and you still end up with no results. I'm sorry you're struggling or someone you know is struggling and that you're hurting. Hope things get brighter, for you.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#27
I happen to have a little money. And I did at his age, too (He's in his 50's, I believe). But he had little when he helped start that first tiny church thirty-some years ago. And I had next to nothing when I started out. We both worked for it.

He has worked hard, and he has been blessed. Are we so jealous of anyone who has attained some substance in life that we have to accuse them of all sorts of things to appease our jealousy?
Were you marketing a false gospel for your money too?

To me, that's the difference.

And, check the article. It didn't even get into the money part. Strictly about what he preaches.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#28
In order to keep the slander and malice down to a minimum - here is a post from our very own CC member JGIG and this is her synopsis of things.



" Welcome, and may God grant you wisdom and discernment as you consider all of these things.

The thing about false teachers is this: They are a dime-a-dozen. In order for the Body to be protected, She needs to know what Truth is, so the primary goal at JGIG is to build believers up in who they are in Christ so that when a falsehood comes across their path, they'll readily recognize and reject it.

If more believers were focused on building each other up and spurring each other on to maturity, less sheep would be getting fleeced and the false teachers would have far fewer vulnerable folks to take advantage of.

I do know one thing: Scaring the sheep does nothing to EQUIP them. It only makes them suspicious and untrusting of everyone and everything. Many drop out of fellowship altogether because they come to believe there is no safe place; no good churches out there. It's a sad state of affairs where segments of the Body are more fearful and neurotic than the world we're supposed to be ministering to!



I don't ascribe to the 'name it claim it' stereotypical health and wealth WOF paradigm.

That said, I don't reject that God does heal and does bless us because He loves us and in order for us to bless others, either, and often does so in unexplainable ways.

I listen to teachers who are on both sides of that fence - you can go to the Media Page on my site and read through teachers that I recommend who do an excellent job of communicating the Gospel. I have a short write-up about each teacher with what I like and if there are any caveats I think need to be given. Any disagreements I have with any of them are far outweighed by the good fruit of their ministries and the overall sound teaching that they offer.

Everyone needs to weigh what they see and hear - folks need to pray for discernment and listen to the Spirit of God within them and compare what they're hearing/seeing to what the Bible plainly AND contextually says.

Example in Discernment - Joseph Prince

Let me take a teacher who has gotten both support and raked over the coals here at CC, Joseph Prince. I've watched/listened to a bunch of his stuff, and in my opinion, he's one of the best teachers of the Gospel, the New Covenant, the Work of Christ, and the High Priesthood of Christ, and he lovingly and with good humor, builds up the believer in who they are in Christ. He also has a great ability to show how nearly everything in the Old Testament points to and foreshadows the realities that are in Christ.

That said, I think his teaching on the Lord's Supper is a little weird, and he does lean toward the 'claim your healing' mentality, which is, I believe, a reflection of his WOF 'roots' (self admitted). Those are the only things I have disagreements with him on that I've found (and I don't listen to him regularly, but have listened to a bunch of his stuff).

Regarding his teachings on wealth/prosperity, one needs to understand a few things:

  1. Joseph Prince defines prosperity as having what you need plus extra so that you can bless/minister to others


  1. Joseph Prince does not take a salary from his church (hasn't for years)


  1. Joseph Prince's income is from his books


  1. There are very active ministries at JP's church - they are not just a bunch of money-grubbing, selfish people looking to live in nice houses and drive nice cars. New Creation Church is a pipeline where money flows in, money flows out in ministry: New Creation Church - Outreach


  1. Joseph Prince's broadcasts - every single one that I've heard - ALWAYS says that they believe that your giving should go to your local church FIRST, and that if you feel led, that they welcome any support you feel led to give to them. There is NO 'sow your seed with this ministry and God will bless you' schtick AT ALL at NCC or preached by JP.

Heresy Hunters and Joseph Prince

Now some heresy hunters will often cite JP's self-admitted WOF 'roots' and then go about tearing apart Kenneth Hagin and every other WOF teacher they can think of in their articles that are 'exposing' Joseph Prince.

Other heresy hunters will rip JP apart and call him a false teacher because he teaches eternal security. Then the Reformed heresy hunters will tell us how JP must be a heretic because he believes that the gifts of the Spirit are for today. The Holiness heresy hunters will rail against JP's teachings about Grace.

FEW, IF ANY of them will have sat down and actually watched a number of JP's teachings and evaluated what he actually teaches, but instead join in the feeding frenzy of snippets taken out of context by other heresy hunters aiming to take him down. Meanwhile, his teaching is setting thousands and thousands of viewers free and his ministry is flourishing.

Where these types cross the line is when they turn a disagreement that they have with someone doctrinally on a secondary issue and turn it into "So and so is a heretic/satanist/controlled by a demon" type stuff. Gee whiz, people! State your disagreement, give your opinion, back it up with what you believe Scripture has to say on the matter, and let the reader/listener/viewer examine the issues and make up their own mind.

It's always instructive to look into the 'ministries' of these heresy hunting types - their overall demeanor, who they DO approve of and what those folks teach, and the fruit of their ministries. Many times they're just miserable, wounded, Christians who don't fellowship in real churches and interact with real people where they have to build real relationships but limit their interaction with others to the internet.
_____________________________________________

So for those on this thread who don't know me as well as others, I'm not a naïve type of believer who thinks all is posies and daffodils out there - I know that's not true. There is an Enemy out there who actively seeks to do harm to the Body of Christ.

I also know that He Who is in me is GREATER than he who is in the world! The Enemy has NO power I don't give him. The Enemy was defeated at the Cross and his greatest remaining weapon is deception. The best defense? KNOW WHAT'S TRUE AND STAND ON IT. The Gospel is the core of all Truth, and when we have a firm grasp on

  • Who Christ is
  • What He came to do
  • What that actually accomplished, and
  • What that means for those who put their faith and trust in Christ and who they are in Him.

. . . and we equip ourselves and other believers with those foundational Truths, then when someone with something that is counterfeit approaches them, they'll recognize it and know to reject it because of how well they know what's TRUE in CHRIST.

The solution to false/bad teaching out there is building up and equipping the Body of Christ about who She is in Christ. Address falsehoods, show where they are in error, and then move on to building up and equipping with contextual, Biblical Truth.

And this is long and I'll end it here. Kudos to you if you made it this far :).

Grace and peace,
-JGIG
Are you unable to speak for yourself?

Good marketing ploy. The same kind used the last time we talked. Copy/paste so you can pretend you had nothing to do with it, if I want to disagree with the post. Good marketing ploy -- also very black hat.

What am I supposed to do with this, disagree with JGG who isn't even here?

I'VE SEEN THE DAMAGE DONE FROM PRINCISM ON THIS SITE!
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#29
This is not true. This is a perfect example of spreading information that has not been verified. These "lists" did not have the accurate information. It is really unfortunate that believers spread things of this nature that malign a fellow believer that is in Christ whether it be intentional or unintentional.

Singapore News: 22 Oct 2014

[UPDATED on 22 Oct 2014 at 9am: Adding response from New Creation Church]
Pastor Joseph Prince's net worth is ‘substantially lower’ than the US$5 million (S$6.3 million) alleged by online reports, said a statement from New Creation Church.

The statement posted on 21 October on the church’s website added that the church is “disappointed with the manner in which the reports were generated and circulated without proper effort having being made to validate the facts”.

Earlier this month, US-based luxury lifestyle website RichestLifestyle.com named the New Creation Church founder and senior pastor as the 10th richest pastor in the world.

Its list puts 51-year-old Prince, a Singaporean, at number 10, with an estimated net worth of about S$6.3 million and an annual salary of close to S$700,000. According to a report by CelebrityNetWorth.com, however, Prince has not been on the church's payroll since 2009, a detail that was later confirmed by the church's most recent statement.

Here is the real truth website.

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/new-creat...est-pastors--lifestyle-website-072923468.html

Here is another news report from AsiaOne News.

Joseph Prince not one of world's top 10 richest pastors: New Creation Church, AsiaOne Singapore News
Your welcome for that link, BTW.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#30
Are you unable to speak for yourself?

Good marketing ploy. The same kind used the last time we talked. Copy/paste so you can pretend you had nothing to do with it, if I want to disagree with the post. Good marketing ploy -- also very black hat.

What am I supposed to do with this, disagree with JGG who isn't even here?

I'VE SEEN THE DAMAGE DONE FROM PRINCISM ON THIS SITE!
I am truly sorry for the hurt you have experienced from other Christians in your life.

I just wish you knew about the amount of people that have PM'ed me to thank me for posting things that helped them to grow in the Lord and to be set free from many things in their life. It brings great joy to one's heart when you see another brother or sister encouraged in the Lord.

This will be my last post in this thread and I sincerely pray that you and your hubby have great blessings of love and grace come to you in the future. God bless you Lynn.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#31
So many people hurting and lashing out... sigh. Instead of defending Joseph Prince, I am just going to presume you didn't get results or you know someone that didn't (in the area of healing or finance). You may say that those things don't work, but you can't ignore the people it did work for. VVhat does that say? If you're honest you have to get to the bottom of it, ask the Lord.

You wish to malice a preacher of God because of your own or others lack of results, but that is fruitless. You end of defaming someone God is working through and you still end up with no results. I'm sorry you're struggling or someone you know is struggling and that you're hurting. Hope things get brighter, for you.
"Get results?" Really. Did I just join a shareholder's meeting? And here I was thinking this was about the God of the Bible, not a self-help shareholder's meeting. Do I get my money back too? Is shipping and handling on me or...?

Really Get results? Sad! Really sad. When the Bible comes down to "what goodies do I get in this arrangement," I would think that's a clear sign someone's not reading it right. Funny thing. And then blaming it on others.

Thank you for the nice demonstration of Princism. I didn't even know you were part of his guerilla marketing campaign.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#32
I am truly sorry for the hurt you have experienced from other Christians in your life.

I just wish you knew about the amount of people that have PM'ed me to thank me for posting things that helped them to grow in the Lord and to be set free from many things in their life. It brings great joy to one's heart when you see another brother or sister encouraged in the Lord.

This will be my last post in this thread and I sincerely pray that you and your hubby have great blessings of love and grace come to you in the future. God bless you Lynn.
Yes, of course they thank you. And in 1-5 years when they realize it doesn't work, then the aftereffects hit.

BTW, since you brought it up, it truly is amazing what God has done in our lives. He is very worthy to be adored.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,999
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#33
Lynn, you're itching for a fight, that's obvious. I think I can speak for most here when I say that no one wants to argue for the sake of arguing. I do believe, however, your issue with Prince has little to do with the heresy of WOF, and more to do with his preaching in regard to salvation being a free gift of God's grace.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,834
981
113
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#34
"Get results?" Really. Did I just join a shareholder's meeting? And here I was thinking this was about the God of the Bible, not a self-help shareholder's meeting. Do I get my money back too? Is shipping and handling on me or...?

Really Get results? Sad! Really sad. When the Bible comes down to "what goodies do I get in this arrangement," I would think that's a clear sign someone's not reading it right. Funny thing. And then blaming it on others.

Thank you for the nice demonstration of Princism. I didn't even know you were part of his guerilla marketing campaign.
Misery loves company, no thank you. I'll be exiting this thread as well.
 
P

popeye

Guest
#35
Listened to him many times. Never heard anything off the wall.

Why do the mods allow this attacking of christians???????
 
U

Ugly

Guest
#36
I think I can speak for most here when I say that no one wants to argue for the sake of arguing
You do realize that is exactly the reputation the BDF has. People just going around looking to pick fights.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
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#37
Taken from the link in the OP

PRINCE’S REJECTION OF CONFESSION
Prince’s unbiblical view of grace leads him to reject the Christian practice of confessing sin. He writes, “In that very instance when you prayed the prayer of salvation all the sins that you would commit for your entire life were forgiven once and for all….Let me say this plainly: You do not need to confess your sins again and again to be forgiven” (emphasis in original).24 He reasons Paul did not write about confessing sins,25 and 1 John 1:9 does not apply to Christians but to Gnostics who did not believe sin existed.26
Christ’s death is sufficient for making atonement for all the sins of the repentant, but when Christians stumble, confession of sin is the norm. James instructs believers to “confess your sins to one another” (James 1:16; cf. Luke 11:4).
Paul may not have explicitly given instructions to confess sin, but he does not condemn the practice. In fact, the statement, “If anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness” (Gal. 6:1) implies the fallen brother’s confession.
The idea that 1 John 1:9 applies to Gnostics but not to Christians has no basis in reality. Rather than denying sin’s existence, Gnostics believed matter is evil.27 Moreover, 1 John 1 is not addressing a Gnostic error, but broadly defining darkness and light. Those in darkness say they have no sin (v. 8), but those in light confess their sin (v. 9). The idea is this: “The proper Christian attitude to sin is not to deny it but to admit it, and then to receive the forgiveness which God has made possible and promises to us.”28


24.Prince, Unmerited Favor, 191.
25Ibid., 186–87.
26.Ibid., 189.
27.Miethe, 98.
28.John Stott, Tyndale New Testament Commentaries, vol. 19 (Grand Rapids: Wm. B. Eerdmans, 2000), 82.


(The above was my pet peeve against the 'Princetonian' movement.)

I'm quite surprised by many here that would want to shut up the ones who believe they are warning against false teachers.

One of the duties of a Christian is to give warning of wolves approaching; yet we have 'sheep' who disdain the warnings and rather side with the aberrant teachers.

If a person is convicted a teacher/teaching is false and lays out documentation supporting such claim, as did the OP, is your response to personally attack the crier or bring forth a reasonable rebuttal?

Look up the word 'warn' in a concordance...it is Scriptural.
 
Jan 15, 2011
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#38
Teaching a little bit of leaven with the lump is still corruption. It is indeed love to warn others about teachers who are teaching something contrary to scripture. I don't see it as tearing down, but building up and helping others avoid spiritual pitfalls and black holes.

If the teacher did repent and say that they were wrong, then by all means, we would not have to warn. If they continue to remain in their teaching, then it would be a good idea to keep a wide berth and help others avoid them too.
 
May 26, 2016
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#39
I am so 20th century, I keep thinking if I know something, everyone already knows it. This includes stuff about false preachers. Someone just PM'd me to ask me what my problem is with Joseph Prince. Honestly? I just thought everyone got it, so never went into it too deeply. Sorry 'bout that.

So, what do I have against Joseph Prince? Quick version -- Joseph Prince doesn't know any of us on this site, and yet he thinks quite a few of us are worthless in God's kingdom, (if we're in his kingdom at all), because of our health issues and/or our finances.

Longer version, (and I picked an article specifically because it is NOT as long-winded as I am) --
Joseph Prince: Unmerited Favor - Christian Research Institute


This is the Word of Faith reloaded specifically to fleece people, and he really doesn't care if he destroys people in the process. He seems benign. His followers seem benign. (Even if they don't know they drank the Kool Aid, it's dangerous. And I truly feel sorry for those who have without knowing the lie they're buying.) Don't buy it. It's cancerous and affects the whole church.

And that doesn't even get into his marketing tactics. (And amazing feat for me, since marketing is something I truly get into -- whether white hat or black hat -- just because I like to see honest marketing.)

'kay? Are we all on the same page now that you know what I have against him?
Joseph Prince isn't a Word of faith man, He is a false grace teacher. He twists the scriptures, twists the Greek, takes scriptures and Greek out of context and deceives 1000s of Biblically ignorant people. No on will ever grow under his ministry, as all he ever teaches is, a false grace message.
 
May 26, 2016
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#40
prince is no better than any of the other current prosperity preachers. they are all frauds.

God is a prosperity Teacher, Are you including Him as well?.
J Prince is a false grace teacher who is one of the last days teachers that will cause many to miss the rapture, with his "Don't have to be holy" teachings.
He said,
, The only thing that you need to go up in the rapture, Is to be alive on earth at that time, Then he said, You don't have to be faithful or holy, just here and alive.
But that's not what the bible says.
 
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