Why such hatred for the seventh day?

[kennethcadwell]

Like I said before your denomination does not make you saved, so saying SDA is the true church, Baptist is the true church, Catholic is the true church, or any other denomination is the true church.

I have a rude awaking for you, " The true church is the group of Christian believers all around the world that believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. "

Denominations benefit nothing.

 

[RedTent]

I don't think it is hatred for the 7th day as much as it is confusion bred on both sides......The church in Acts met EVERY DAY and Jesus ALLOWED HIS DISCIPLES to DO THINGS on the SABBATH days that he later placed HIS STAMP OF APPROVAL ON.....having been rejected and condemned by religious fanatical men of his DAY!

The church councils of today meet every day to discuss business just as the council in Acts did. Most have a Sabbath when they don't meet, like in Acts. The Sabbath is not for discussing business as it was in Acts, but for honoring the Lord's Day.

Jesus had his disciples obey the Sabbath, not the Talmud. The Talmud gave the letter of the law and ignored the real law. Christ gave the real law: we need not go hungry that day, God gave it for our blessing, and the law of love is alive and well on that day.

 

[prove-all]

poem
Christians know how to fight
But they generally fight each other
Each one claims he is right
While treading down his brother
...
We stand up and cry,
"Heretics, heretics, all around"
"If you don't believe as I,"
"God will drive you into the ground!"

We shout, with swords for all to see
"I have the only real truth!
So follow me!
As we strike down those who disagree"

What is the gain
When we hate others
How will Christ's love reign
If we forsake one another?

Disagree
But do not grow hateful
Seek harmony
As much as you are able

Not everyone is a wolf in disguise
So be careful what you say
Do not give into Satan's lies
You will be accountable for your words one day

Wesley and Whitfield greatly disagreed
Often times, they were at a loss
But they saw mankind's true need
And preached the grace of the cross

Blessed is the one
Who seeks peace with his neighbor
For he shall see God's Son
When he rests from his labor

 

[crossnote]

poem
Christians know how to fight
But they generally fight each other
Each one claims he is right
While treading down his brother
...
We stand up and cry,
"Heretics, heretics, all around"
"If you don't believe as I,"
"God will drive you into the ground!"

We shout, with swords for all to see
"I have the only real truth!
So follow me!
As we strike down those who disagree"

What is the gain
When we hate others
How will Christ's love reign
If we forsake one another?

Disagree
But do not grow hateful
Seek harmony
As much as you are able

Not everyone is a wolf in disguise
So be careful what you say
Do not give into Satan's lies
You will be accountable for your words one day

Wesley and Whitfield greatly disagreed
Often times, they were at a loss
But they saw mankind's true need
And preached the grace of the cross

Blessed is the one
Who seeks peace with his neighbor
For he shall see God's Son
When he rests from his labor

This also answers 'why' Christians fight...they tend to be more zealous for the truth than other groups.

 

[chubbena]

The problem is that the Sabbath is NOT Saturday. This was only the SHADOW of what was to come for mankind to be learned by repetition. But Saturday is followed by Sunday and Sunday by Monday and the work of men again!

Now when the 1000 year reign of Christ happens (the true Sabbath day), do you think that His kingdom is an everlasting one, or will it be followed by more days of the work of men? Absolutely NOT if His is to be an everlasting kingdom!

6000 years man was given to do all his work. The last 1000 years into everlasting is set apart for God. Man's work will have to cease.

The problem exactly. The Sabbath is not Saturday. The Sabbath is the 7th day which He's made holy because He created the world in six days and He rested on the 7th. It's a shadow of the eternal Sabbath to come and yet to come. If man has a problem with resting one in seven imagine how boring it will be in eternity.

 

[chubbena]

Considering how many folks are supporting Saturday Sabbath............WHY EXACTLY are they here posting on the internet? Should they NOT BE worshiping God in His Rest?

It's lawful to do good on the Sabbath and I consider defending one's faith is good

 

[chubbena]

This also answers 'why' Christians fight...they tend to be more zealous for the truth than other groups.

Here's nothing comparing with the old days when they burnt the heretics. He promised persecution and now is a matter of who's persecuting who.

 

[crossnote]

Here's nothing comparing with the old days when they burnt the heretics. He promised persecution and now is a matter of who's persecuting who.

Let's hope there's not a repeat performance amongst Christians.
Persecution comes from Sinai...

Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
(Gal 4:24-30)

 

[posthuman]

One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike.
Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.
Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord.
Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God.
For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone.
If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord.
So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
(Romans 14:5-9)

Paul is talking about much more than food. it's instructive (at least to me) that the Spirit chooses a discussion about meat - and all food is clean, as declared by the Lord - to insert this word about days. isn't it also interesting that he spends so little time talking about days, as though it is much easier to understand or accept than the issue of clean or unclean meat?

the only issue i have is judging one another because this one devotes this day to God, and this one devotes another day, and this one devotes all his days. if someone were to research all historical changes to dating systems and decide that thursday on our calendar corresponds to the sabbath of the law, i won't make ten threads declaring that God's true church meets on thursday and everyone else is apostate.

the sabbath isn't a meeting day anyway. it became a convenient one because on this day the Jews were not otherwise busy working.

could it maybe be more productive to set aside bickering over calendars and talk about how to enter His rest?

You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister?
Or why do you treat them with contempt?
For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat.
(Romans 14:10)

i will neither condemn anyone for a day of a week nor burden anyone with one either.
love the Lord with all you are, and be convinced in your own mind when to do this.
that burden of adoration is from God, not from me.

 

[posthuman]

someone will say anyway, "Romans is out of context he's talking about food"

i'm not going to answer you. be convinced in your own mind.
but have a look at Hebrews and ask yourself if that book treats the sabbath as though it were a scribbled note in an appointment book, or something far greater.

 

[2Thewaters]

Let's hope there's not a repeat performance amongst Christians.
Persecution comes from Sinai...

Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
(Gal 4:24-30)

irrelevant

the law of ordinances and feasts came from siani
the ten commandments came from eden

Abraham kept eh commandments and so did Noah

we dont keep feasts

but revelation says the true people will keep the commandments 10.

"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." -Revelation 12:17.


"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." -Revelation 14:12.


"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." -Revelation 22:14.


Ten commandments are still love

 

[crossnote]

irrelevant

the law of ordinances and feasts came from siani
the ten commandments came from eden

Abraham kept eh commandments and so did Noah

we dont keep feasts

but revelation says the true people will keep the commandments 10.

"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." -Revelation 12:17.


"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." -Revelation 14:12.


"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." -Revelation 22:14.


Ten commandments are still love

Point missed. Persecution comes from those who are after the flesh not the promise as Ishmael (born from man's efforts) persecuted Isaac (born from the Promise). We are children of the Promise and should not be persecuting others is my point.

I guess you can turn it into a Law/Faith battle, but that would be you.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

nobody here 'hates the sabbath'...

what many of us have a problem with is when the self righteous sabbath cults show up and start accusing and condemning everyone who doesn't observe the sabbath...it runs from subtle insinuations that people who don't observe the sabbath are disobedient or don't care about all of God's word...all the way to the delusion that worshipping on sunday is the mark of the beast...

this message that is almost always heavily laced with the poison of condemnation and divisiveness is what many of us here object to..

equally irritating is when the sabbath keepers hypocritically pretend to be -victims- because people dare to disagree with their self righteous message of condemnation...you people are -not- victims and you are -not- being persecuted...you are merely receiving the backlash you provoke by constantly attacking those who disagree with your accusatory fringe doctrine...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

the law of ordinances and feasts came from siani
the ten commandments came from eden

there is no verse whatsoever that says the ten commandments were given in eden...you make up more 'bible' stories than the roman catholics do...

 

[RedTent]

Let's hope there's not a repeat performance amongst Christians.
Persecution comes from Sinai...

Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
(Gal 4:24-30)

I pray for the church that they could understand Mt Sinai! It is really important. It is used so often to discredit Christ and the word! So many people quote the epistles to back up their right to do this, I wonder how they could so misunderstand.

We are told God is one, and God is eternal. Surely on that we can agree? If God is one and all scripture is of God, we cannot say that what God spoke on Mt Sinai was in error, that God as Christ would cancel what God as the Father would say.

All scripture says that we are not saved by following the law but by grace. This has been explained since Cain tried to use something besides the shadow of Christ's blood for atonement. So what God told about law on Mt Sinai was not for our salvation according to scripture. What is told of on Mt Sinai was, according to scripture, to live so we would be blessed in our life here, and to show how curses could come to us. It was for those who God had saved, told for our protection and because of God's love for us.

All scripture has many sides to each thing it says. There is a spiritual side, a physical side, a godly side, it even fits into the mathematical precision of God's creation. We only comprehend a small part of all of this. So there are many sides to the law given on Mt Sinai. Often, it gives the letter of the law side and we have to find the spiritual side. One side is in explaining sin, for disobedience is sin. Sin kills and Christ saves. So part of Mt Sinai is telling what kills. We are to see through the eyes of God, and God never sees it from only one side. We are not to do that either, although often the epistles will tell us of a side of Mt Sinai we should see.

Sometimes blind men will tell us of a side of Mt Sinai they read about and say that is all there is, that explains all of Mt Sinai. Don't be led by blind men, put on the mind of Christ and see all of what God gives us in the ten commandments.

 

[RedTent]

there is no verse whatsoever that says the ten commandments were given in eden...you make up more 'bible' stories than the roman catholics do...

Are you really believing that the world was created without any of the laws we are told of on Mt Sinai? Surely you understand creation. Read about the first day of creation. The world was darkness, and if we go to the Hebrew it says the world was without God's spirit, and on the first day God gave light, and in Hebrew that word meant all of God's spirit. What was given to us on Mt Sinai was how God's spirit works, but in Hebrew without our words for abstract ideas, the physical results of those ideas were given. Hebrews understood the thoughts and feelings behind those actions.

 

[gotime]

Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Joh 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

 

[phil112]

Are you really believing that the world was created without any of the laws we are told of on Mt Sinai? .............................

The more you talk, the more your ignorance astounds me.
Tell me, red, which of these characteristics are you going to attribute to Adam? He had to have at least one of them since you say the law was in Eden when Adam was. Was he unholy? Profane? A murderer? Ungodly? Unrighteous? Disobedient? He was in the company of God. It blows my mind that you think God keeps company with unholy people.

Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons.......

 

[phil112]

.........................but (1)revelation says the true people will keep the commandments 10.

"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, (2)which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." -Revelation 12:17........................

1. That's a lie.
2. The testimony of Christ was to bring grace to us thru His two commandments of love...the two that replaced those from God because Christ fulfilled God's. God sent Christ to us. God is truth, the word.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.................And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us

Those two commandments are God's commandments to us. To say otherwise is to call the bible a corrupted volume and to deny any of it to be true, since God tells us it was inspired by Him and written by holy men under guidance of His spirit.

 

[RedTent]

The more you talk, the more your ignorance astounds me.
Tell me, red, which of these characteristics are you going to attribute to Adam? He had to have at least one of them since you say the law was in Eden when Adam was. Was he unholy? Profane? A murderer? Ungodly? Unrighteous? Disobedient? He was in the company of God. It blows my mind that you think God keeps company with unholy people.

And you complete inability to understand any of scripture astounds me! What does Adams's characteristics have to do with the way God created world with order? I wonder at your thought processes!!! You state that one of the many things you hold against me is that I have read the Old Testament. So what do you have in your mind about Adam?