Why the king james?

[fredoheaven]

You dont understand. If inspired New testament says "it is written: xyz", then it is the authority on what was really written in Old Testament, so you can check it out.

Well, this is may be a case or product of fragile thinking, but anyway here to give you a classic example for your further study.

The extent of preservation is concerned with the words. The Bible teaches verbal inspiration. What is inspiration without preservation? In the doctrine of preservation what you need is faith to believe God’s Word. This is actually the application of faith.

When the New Testament quotes from the Old Testament, there are several instances where the Holy Spirit used different words e.g. Deuteronomy 8:3 is quoted slightly different words in Luke 4:4, without loss of meaning.

Ø In the first place, the quotation was from the Hebrew to Greek.

Ø In the second place,, Timothy had available both the Book of Deuteronomy (written in Hebrew) and the Book of Luke (written in Greek) since 1 Timothy 5:18 cites both the Books as SCRIPTURE.

Ø In the third place, the Spirit of God is well qualified to use different words since He is the Author of the Scripture

Faith concludes that God will keep His promise to preserve His Word, working providentially by the same Spirit through the process of copying and translation to give us the very words He desires.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Here's Strong's definition not that Stong's opinion is any better than yours but I don't see saved, am saved and continue to be saved. Did you get that from another Greek dictionary?


Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
†σώζω sṓzō, sode'-zo; from a primary σῶς sōs (contraction for obsolete σάος sáos, "safe"); to save, i.e. deliver or protect (literally or figuratively):—heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.

What does this have to do with the verb tense?

Please. you cut yourself down when you do things like this, Strongs is not going to give you the interpretation of the verb tense. Just the interpretation of the word.

have been saved

greek sesosmenoi verb perfect passive

the perfect tense verb - a completed verbal action.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Same Greek word here, does this verse mean have been saved, am saved and will be saved forever?

Matthew 16:25 KJV
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

You know nothing of greek, that is true.

It is the same greek word. but different action, It is aorist tense, not perfect. so it is different.

the word is sosai

 

[KJV1611]

You have no comprehension at all.

The greek word saved is perfect tense.

I did not twist anything, I interpreted it as a perfect tense verb would be interpreted.

The KJV did not interpret it correctly it is flawed.

You can deny it all you want, That does not make it true.

Sorry I wasn't talking about that I was talking about John 3:16 and James 2:21 in the NIV.

 

[KJV1611]

Isaiah 53:1, of course.

Again:

John 12:38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake,
Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?

Romans 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith,
Lord, who hath believed our report?

Isaiah 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

I just checked several translations and none of them have Lord in Isaiah 53:1... I guess it wasn't in the copies of the originals.

 

[fredoheaven]

What about the Holy Ghost as per Dictionaries available online? Are they against the KJV? Absolutely not! Only Bible Commentators who disdain the KJV does that.

Here are online dictionaries for references:

Holy Ghost
n. Christianity
The Holy Spirit.
[HR][/HR]
[Middle English holi gost, holy spirit, from Old English hālig gāst (translation of Latin spīritus sānctus) :hālig, holy; see holy + gāst, spirit.]
American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition. Copyright © 2011 by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. All rights reserved.
Holy Ghost
n
(Theology) another name for the Holy Spirit

Holy Ghost - definition of Holy Ghost by The Free Dictionary

Definition of Holy Ghost in English:

Holy Ghost
Pronunciation: /ˈˌhōlē ˈɡōst/
NOUN
Another term for Holy Spirit.

Holy Ghost: definition of Holy Ghost in Oxford dictionary (American English) (US)

WordNet Dictionary


[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]Noun
[/TD]
[TD]1.
[/TD]
[TD]Holy Ghost - the third person in the Trinity; Jesus promised the Apostles that he wouldsend the Holy Spirit after his Crucifixion and Resurrection; it came on Pentecost
Synonyms: Holy Spirit

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Holy Ghost | Definition of Holy Ghost by Webster's Online Dictionary

Holy Ghost

noun
Popularity: Bottom 20% of words
Definition of Holy Ghost
1. : the third person of the Trinity : holy spirit

Holy Ghost | Definition of Holy Ghost by Merriam-Webster

Definitions of Holy Ghost
Holy Ghost

Definitions
noun
1. another name for the Holy Spirit


Definition of “Holy Ghost” | Collins English Dictionary

Therefore Holy Ghost is not an Archaic. The only difference is the SPELLING.

 

[trofimus]

I just checked several translations and none of them have Lord in Isaiah 53:1... I guess it wasn't in the copies of the originals.

The failure of many does not make it right.

 

[trofimus]

Well, this is may be a case or product of fragile thinking, but anyway here to give you a classic example for your further study.

The extent of preservation is concerned with the words. The Bible teaches verbal inspiration. What is inspiration without preservation? In the doctrine of preservation what you need is faith to believe God’s Word. This is actually the application of faith.

When the New Testament quotes from the Old Testament, there are several instances where the Holy Spirit used different words e.g. Deuteronomy 8:3 is quoted slightly different words in Luke 4:4, without loss of meaning.

Ø In the first place, the quotation was from the Hebrew to Greek.

Ø In the second place,, Timothy had available both the Book of Deuteronomy (written in Hebrew) and the Book of Luke (written in Greek) since 1 Timothy 5:18 cites both the Books as SCRIPTURE.

Ø In the third place, the Spirit of God is well qualified to use different words since He is the Author of the Scripture

Faith concludes that God will keep His promise to preserve His Word, working providentially by the same Spirit through the process of copying and translation to give us the very words He desires.

" In the first place, the quotation was from the Hebrew to Greek."
- so what? both Hebrew and Greek have all words needed

"In the second place,, Timothy had available both the Book of Deuteronomy (written in Hebrew) and the Book of Luke (written in Greek) since 1 Timothy 5:18 cites both the Books as SCRIPTURE."
- I dont understand how does it relate to my question.

"In the third place, the Spirit of God is well qualified to use different words since He is the Author of the Scripture"
If God cannot lie, He cannot say that something IS WRITTEN if in fact it IS NOT. There is no "authorship license" in this context.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sorry I wasn't talking about that I was talking about John 3:16 and James 2:21 in the NIV.

Thats ok, I was talking about eph 2: 8 in the KJV

I did not know it said we have been saved (perfect tense) by grace through faith in those passages.

 

[Agricola]

I see there has been no undeniable evidence provided to support the claims that we should only read the King James. Even when we had the admission that there was none, yet still we are told this is vitally important thing that God wants, but there is no evidence or proof, apart from a cult telling us so.

You will never convince a brainwashed cult member what they are saying is wrong.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sorry I wasn't talking about that I was talking about John 3:16 and James 2:21 in the NIV.

By the way, WHat does this have to do with what I said and the proof I proposed that the KJV was unable to translate this correctly because of the flawed english language?

 

[KJV1611]

The failure of many does not make it right.

I was it in the copies of the originals?

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

I just checked several translations and none of them have Lord in Isaiah 53:1... I guess it wasn't in the copies of the originals.

"Several" must mean "select few" in this context...

Isaiah 53:1 Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?

Oh I have comprehension allright, I comprehend that you don't believe anything written down as it's written, you twist it to make it say what you want it to say.

The KJV uses Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit because numbers mean something in the word of God. Holy Ghost is found exactly 90 times and Holy Spirit is found exactly 7 times.... now go learn what that meaneth and maybe God will have mercy and not sacrifice.


Do yourself a favor Grace check things out, look for reasons things are done before you try to convince people to throw away Gods pure word. Also learn what born again is before you claim all "born again" people are the same.

When I read this, I imagined someone grasping at anything in order to stay afloat. Notice phrases like: "Go learn..." & "Do yourself a favor...", these are phrases of dissension/discord rather than edification. In other words, this individual has no defense for their argument and is attempting to misdirect attention to matters of personal character--it's very deceptive.

I leave you to your self-deception.

me too...this is just getting weirder and weirder every time I come in here.....I do know one thing...I will be checking every thing that guy says with scripture......

I see there has been no undeniable evidence provided to support the claims that we should only read the King James. Even when we had the admission that there was none, yet still we are told this is vitally important thing that God wants, but there is no evidence or proof, apart from a cult telling us so.


You will never convince a brainwashed cult member what they are saying is wrong.

No one is telling anyone to "throw away" the KJV.

We're simply saying the KJV is not the ONLY trustworthy Bible.

 

[KJV1611]

By the way, WHat does this have to do with what I said and the proof I proposed that the KJV was unable to translate this correctly because of the flawed english language?

Nothing to do with it. Are you talking about the KJV no being capable of expressing saved as was saved, is saved and always will be?

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Nothing to do with it. Are you talking about the KJV no being capable of expressing saved as was saved, is saved and always will be?

EG is stating that there is no single English word which encompasses all of these tenses at once!

(Correct me, if I'm wrong, y'all!)

 

[KJV1611]

"Several" must mean "select few" in this context...

Isaiah 53:1 Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?

Quote from trofimus:

Isaiah 53:1, of course.

Again:

John 12:38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake,
Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?

Romans 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith,
Lord, who hath believed our report?

Isaiah 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

Trofimus claims Lord is missing from the first part of Isaiah 53:1 not the last part.

 

[hornetguy]

When I read this, I imagined someone grasping at anything in order to stay afloat.



No one is telling anyone to "throw away" the KJV.

We're simply saying the KJV is not the ONLY trustworthy Bible.

Yes... they have built their whole belief system on "A" version/translation of the Bible, and EVERYTHING they discuss is centered around "proving" that THEIR version is the only one that has the truth.

If you take away that foundation of their belief (the KJV) as the only "true" thing, you've rocked their world beyond recovery.

I pray that they will see the light, and get past their blind obsession with a translation of the Word.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Quote from trofimus:



Trofimus claims Lord is missing from the first part of Isaiah 53:1 not the last part.

I truly hope this insignificant tree does not prevent you from seeing the forest.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Yes... they have built their whole belief system on "A" version/translation of the Bible, and EVERYTHING they discuss is centered around "proving" that THEIR version is the only one that has the truth.

If you take away that foundation of their belief (the KJV) as the only "true" thing, you've rocked their world beyond recovery.

I pray that they will see the light, and get past their blind obsession with a translation of the Word.

I agree.

Words are failing to help these folks see the light--it's time for us to trust God and pray.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG is stating that there is no single English word which encompasses all of these tenses at once!

(Correct me, if I'm wrong, y'all!)

Nope you have it right.

A person 2000 years ago who read the word saved as written (perfect) would immediately understand, this salvation was a completed fact. Not something which was a future possibility, or could be lost