Why the king james?
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I think everyone knows that. But which cases are thee, thy and thou? Nominative, Accusative, Dative, Genitive, Vocative? Same for Ye or ?? And that leads to the verb following 2nd person singular. Does one always add a "th" to the end of the word? Or are there exceptions like there are in English and pretty much every other language that has ever existed? I would never know if it was written right or wrong, because I don't have a clue where you could even study the second person singular. Thou hast? Or thou hath? Or is that the tense?
Very complex, and very important, because 2nd singular is the form in which the Greek addresses God. So from that perspective, a good thing to be able to use that form, but bad, because I have no idea how to conjugate verbs in 2nd person singular. I would rather just read the Bible in French, Spanish or Greek to know where the singular versus the plural is being used, because I have the ability and tools to either remember or look it up in my many verb form books.
Then there are those many, many words that have totally dropped out of usage, or changed meaning. KJV says to go into your "closet" to pray. For so many years, I thought that meant my literal closet, which was something I could not bring myself to do. Then I found out it meant a small, inner room in the house. But not a place to hang clothes, or put the folded linen. And so on!
One thing missionaries have found out is how important it is for people in language groups to read the Bible in their "heart" language. That is why missionaries have to have courses in how to translate the Bible into these languages, including at times, creating an entire alphabet or pictorial system of writing.
So why on earth would any English speaking person want to read the Bible in a language that is long gone, rather than modern or contemporary English? Surely we deserve as much as a tribe in Papua New Guinea! And then all those added parts, which were copied and added by the Byzantine scribes in particular. People make doctrines out of passages that do not even appear till much later down the centuries, when a scribe would add a comment in the margin, and the next generation would incorporate that into the text.
KJV was really NOT translated by the committee that King James commissioned. They used the translation by Erasmus, who used 7 corrupted and recent Greek manuscripts. And even when he found things that had been added to the Vulgate, the RCC would not let him eliminate them from the English text. Plus, he was rushed and didn't even have time to actually translate the Greek for several books, so he just quickly translated the Latin Vulgate into English. Very sad so many Protestants using a book with obvious Vatican slants.
Y
I guess I just like the way the KJV reads. I'm an educated man, so the wording doesn't bother me in the least. Liking it for what it is is all the reason I need. I'm not sure I could care less about the debate of which is better, what manuscripts were better to use, who said what, or any of the other points that get brought up over and over and over. Inspired word of God though the Bible may be, it is still ...a book.
"Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you." Deuteronomy 4:2.
"Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar." Proverbs 30:5,6.
"If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book; And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." Revelation 22:18, 19.
The Old Testament scriptures, except for a few chapters of Aramaic, were written in Hebrew - not Greek or Syriac or Latin. The Lord Jesus Christ said in Matthew 5:18 "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Jots and tittles refer to the Hebrew scriptures.
Likewise the apostle Paul states: "What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God." Romans 3:1,2.
The Hebrew Masoretic scribes were used of God to preserve His inspired words in the Old Testament. Of the Bible versions widely used today in the English language, only the King James Bible consistently sticks to the Hebrew text. The NKJV departs at least 10 times I have found so far, the NASB over 40 times and the NIV, ESV reject the Hebrew Masoretic text well over 80 times, and most of these are openly admitted to in the footnotes of the NIV and ESV. The NASB departs from the Hebrew but they don't tell you when they do this in their footnotes.
The modern Catholic bible versions like the St. Joseph New American Bible 1970 and the Catholic New Jerusalem Bible of 1985 often reject the same Hebrew texts in the same places and ALL these versions have virtually the SAME New Testament "interconfessional" text created by a joint effort of the Vatican and the infallibility denying, apostate 'Evangelicals" called the UBS (United Bible Society) or Nestle-Aland critical Greek text.
"Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar." Proverbs 30:5,6.
"If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book; And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." Revelation 22:18, 19.
The Old Testament scriptures, except for a few chapters of Aramaic, were written in Hebrew - not Greek or Syriac or Latin. The Lord Jesus Christ said in Matthew 5:18 "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Jots and tittles refer to the Hebrew scriptures.
Likewise the apostle Paul states: "What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God." Romans 3:1,2.
The Hebrew Masoretic scribes were used of God to preserve His inspired words in the Old Testament. Of the Bible versions widely used today in the English language, only the King James Bible consistently sticks to the Hebrew text. The NKJV departs at least 10 times I have found so far, the NASB over 40 times and the NIV, ESV reject the Hebrew Masoretic text well over 80 times, and most of these are openly admitted to in the footnotes of the NIV and ESV. The NASB departs from the Hebrew but they don't tell you when they do this in their footnotes.
The modern Catholic bible versions like the St. Joseph New American Bible 1970 and the Catholic New Jerusalem Bible of 1985 often reject the same Hebrew texts in the same places and ALL these versions have virtually the SAME New Testament "interconfessional" text created by a joint effort of the Vatican and the infallibility denying, apostate 'Evangelicals" called the UBS (United Bible Society) or Nestle-Aland critical Greek text.
Thanks ,well said
"Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you." Deuteronomy 4:2.
In the original autographs as they were loosed from heaven and bound on earth, God gives us His tongue, as an interpretation from Him using the Greek and Hebrew..
The King James from my own experiences holds closely to the commandment you offered above which is different than the Revelation 22 law. I personally at times use the Young’s Literal paraphrase when I run into something that I believe conflicts what I consider the spirit of faith. The binding and loosening law found in Mathew 16 and 18 is one that comes to mind.
In the Deuteronomy 4:2 law it was in respect to one word. Adding other definitions diminished the author’s intent and changes the commandment as coming from God giving it over to men as a commandment or doctrine of men.
That can I believe be seen easily by looking at the word “apostle” in which with no other meaning added simply means “sent one”.and not authorative one, as if the authority to believe God (have the faith of God) came after the flesh of sinful men who walk after the experiences of life called walking by sight.. The changing of that one word has filled libraries as to the different conclusions.
While the King James as any paraphrase is subject to a person’s own private interpretation which could affect the choice of words .In most cases it has stood the test of time.
Jesus Christ is the bedrock.
The KJV is not the foundation of our faith -- Christ is. Your argument not only discounts Him as nothing, and as useless to me, as though the One who created the mind and who formed wisdom itself cannot impart understanding, but it also damns everyone whose literacy is poor, who lived before the mid 1600's, who speaks any language other than English.
You're treating the word of God as though it's something as inconsequential as the US constitution. It's not -- it's alive and powerful, and to whoever the Lord wills, it is confusion, seen through a veil, but to those whom He chose and opened, it is life and peace, transcending human speech.
Without the instruction of any human being i knew the difference of faith "in Christ" and faith "of Christ" -- is He God or not? is He not able? is God a set of symbols, or is He alive?
E
No sir, peeps like you that damn the rest of the Body for using other Translations have, in fact, turned the Bible into an idol, because it is the version that you worship and not the truth found inside.
If you claim the absolute word of truth is only found in the KJV because other versions are not true, then you have made the KJV Bible a god unto yourself. You are worshiping a version and not what is contained inside, therefore you have made the KJV a god and God himself said their are no other gods before me.
Now go run along now and spread discord and strife with your Buddy Jack Chick and keep on spreading the message of hate because nobody is as spiritually connected as you are because of Bible version.
Jesus is not going to judge you based on how many people you converted to the KJV, he is going to judge you based on how many you converted to the WORD!
If you claim the absolute word of truth is only found in the KJV because other versions are not true, then you have made the KJV Bible a god unto yourself. You are worshiping a version and not what is contained inside, therefore you have made the KJV a god and God himself said their are no other gods before me.
Now go run along now and spread discord and strife with your Buddy Jack Chick and keep on spreading the message of hate because nobody is as spiritually connected as you are because of Bible version.
Jesus is not going to judge you based on how many people you converted to the KJV, he is going to judge you based on how many you converted to the WORD!
What you have said is we have no final authority on what God has said. You do not want to subject yourself to the word of God that He has preserved in the English language. Man never wants to relinquish authority.
many versions - man becomes the final authority on what God has said.
"Well I think that this version says it best."
"Well my study in the Greek says..."
"It's easier for me to understand this way..."
One Book - One Authority
Btw, it was God that said His word is above His own name.
many versions - man becomes the final authority on what God has said.
"Well I think that this version says it best."
"Well my study in the Greek says..."
"It's easier for me to understand this way..."
One Book - One Authority
Btw, it was God that said His word is above His own name.
To the delight of you and others, today is the last day I will participate in this forum. I realize I am too passionate about my beliefs and too unbridled in my responses which does not add to the harmony that should prevail in this forum. To be true to myself, I am what I am and too old to be concerned about other peoples opinions it will not affect my life one way or the other. I am a military veteran and patriot and I love my country and I love my KGV, I am very passionate about defending them both.
Our country is disintegrating and none of us is blameless for allowing it to happen. Secular Humanism began to erode our Christian foundation in the 1960 when seventy five percent of Americans identified themselves as Christians. Today, less than fifty percent identify themselves that way and only about half that many identify themselves as Born again Christians. I have never met a Non Born Again Christian; whatever they are.
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. If you have a KJV, you can find this passage in John 3:3
Not only is Secular Humanism destroying our country, it is meeting its gold of ridding America of any mention of God. It has turned many churches in America into money pits with millionaires occupying Pulpits. What do you suppose God thinks about that? There is no way God will allow us to get away with spitting in his face, and why should He?
In defense of the KGV; not that it needs defending, we have to go back not to King James, but we must start with Henry V111. This old boy was some piece of work. There was, and I think still exist, a doctrine called the Divine Right Of Kings, which means Monarchs are chosen by God that gives them, absolute power over their subjects. At the time of Henry V111, England was ruled by the Catholic Church. Old Henry was married six different times and because the Catholic Church would not allow divorce, Henry drummed up false claims of some breech of law by three of his wives and had them beheaded. Old Henry solved his problems with the Catholic Church by kicking them out of the country and declared himself, head of the Church of England. We can now go to the time of King James.
King James was the king of Scotland before he became the King of England in 1604 and offered hope and change to a very dysfunctional country, which in the end was no better off or even worse at the end of his rein.
One of his major problems was the bickering between the Puritans and the Priest left over from the Catholic Church as to what would be England’s official bible used by the Church of England. Unable to squelch the bickering, in the mix of all this turmoil, he adopter a suggestion by one of the Puritan leaders and ordered a one-for- all Bible to be created and gathered the most capable interpreters to go to work.
On the other side of this saga, lurked a dastardly plot by a few disgruntled young Catholic men, steaming over England leaving the Catholic Church, sponsored and financed by at least one and maybe more Jesuit Priest in an effort to blow up the House of Parliament. They enlisted a man named Guy Fawkes that was an expert in explosives to acquire as much gun powder as possible. Once a year, the king called all his hierarchy together in the House of Parliament to discuss his plans for the future.
Fawkes managed to acquire forty barrels of gun powder and all that was needed was a way to get it beneath the chambers where the gathering would occur.
Underneath the House of Parliament is a mired of honeycomb like chambers where the merchants and employs used for access to the upper rooms. Against all odds, the perpetrators succeeded, threw bribery, to acquire a storage area directly beneath the chambers where the meeting would take place, there they stored the gun powder, and covered it over with piles of firewood.
I am about to explain why I love the KJV. Before this plot could be carried out, one of the perpetrators had a cousin that was a Palace guard and he warned his cousin to fain being sick on the day chose to exercise their plan but he did not tell why. The cousin suspecting there was a plan to execute the King and gathered the Place Guards to do a thorough search of the Parliament including the underground. Unable to find the gun powder, they prepared to call of the search, but on the way out, a guard returned to the wood pile for another look (I am convinced God sent him there), and discovered the gun powder.
Had this plot succeeded, not only would England be a much different place today, the KGV would not exist. It was estimated that had the Gunpowder exploded, not only would the House of Parliament be destroyed, but a great portion of London as well.
All of this occurred over four hundred years ago, but today in England, on 5 Nov, the entire country celebrates Guy Fawkes Day with huge bonfires and effigies of Guy Fawkes hung on lamp post. It turned out that King James failed in his effort to fundamentally change England for the better, but he left a legacy not matched to this day; depending on your point of view. I spent ten years of my Air Force career in England and have made many trips to London, it a fascination City. However, when you walk around the streets and museums of London, there are statues and monuments of previous Monarchs all over the place, but what you will not find, is any reference to King James, except a little placard here and there. You can make of this what you want to. My remarks are much abbreviated and taking from notes, I wrote while attending a lecture in London with members of the PMOC (Protestant Men of the Chapel) at a base where I was stationed in 1960. That is probably not allowed on Military bases today. I am unwavering in my Beliefs that the rise of King James, who accomplished nothing else of importance but the creation of the KJV, was ordained by God and you have every right to disagree, but I will go to my grave defending this country, and the KJV
Following is one of my favorite Aesop’s Fables:
A Sick Man received a visit from his Doctor, who asked him how he was. "Fairly well, Doctor," said he, "but I find I sweat a great deal." "Ah," said the Doctor, "that's a good sign." On his next visit he asked the same question, and his patient replied, "I'm much as usual, but I've taken to having shivering fits, which leave me cold all over." "Ah," said the Doctor, "that's a good sign too." When he came the third time and inquired as before about his patient's health, the Sick Man said that he felt very feverish. "A very good sign," said the Doctor; "you are doing very nicely indeed." Afterwards a friend came to see the invalid, and on asking him how he did, received this reply: "My dear friend, I'm dying of good signs."
GOD HELP US ALL
Our country is disintegrating and none of us is blameless for allowing it to happen. Secular Humanism began to erode our Christian foundation in the 1960 when seventy five percent of Americans identified themselves as Christians. Today, less than fifty percent identify themselves that way and only about half that many identify themselves as Born again Christians. I have never met a Non Born Again Christian; whatever they are.
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. If you have a KJV, you can find this passage in John 3:3
Not only is Secular Humanism destroying our country, it is meeting its gold of ridding America of any mention of God. It has turned many churches in America into money pits with millionaires occupying Pulpits. What do you suppose God thinks about that? There is no way God will allow us to get away with spitting in his face, and why should He?
In defense of the KGV; not that it needs defending, we have to go back not to King James, but we must start with Henry V111. This old boy was some piece of work. There was, and I think still exist, a doctrine called the Divine Right Of Kings, which means Monarchs are chosen by God that gives them, absolute power over their subjects. At the time of Henry V111, England was ruled by the Catholic Church. Old Henry was married six different times and because the Catholic Church would not allow divorce, Henry drummed up false claims of some breech of law by three of his wives and had them beheaded. Old Henry solved his problems with the Catholic Church by kicking them out of the country and declared himself, head of the Church of England. We can now go to the time of King James.
King James was the king of Scotland before he became the King of England in 1604 and offered hope and change to a very dysfunctional country, which in the end was no better off or even worse at the end of his rein.
One of his major problems was the bickering between the Puritans and the Priest left over from the Catholic Church as to what would be England’s official bible used by the Church of England. Unable to squelch the bickering, in the mix of all this turmoil, he adopter a suggestion by one of the Puritan leaders and ordered a one-for- all Bible to be created and gathered the most capable interpreters to go to work.
On the other side of this saga, lurked a dastardly plot by a few disgruntled young Catholic men, steaming over England leaving the Catholic Church, sponsored and financed by at least one and maybe more Jesuit Priest in an effort to blow up the House of Parliament. They enlisted a man named Guy Fawkes that was an expert in explosives to acquire as much gun powder as possible. Once a year, the king called all his hierarchy together in the House of Parliament to discuss his plans for the future.
Fawkes managed to acquire forty barrels of gun powder and all that was needed was a way to get it beneath the chambers where the gathering would occur.
Underneath the House of Parliament is a mired of honeycomb like chambers where the merchants and employs used for access to the upper rooms. Against all odds, the perpetrators succeeded, threw bribery, to acquire a storage area directly beneath the chambers where the meeting would take place, there they stored the gun powder, and covered it over with piles of firewood.
I am about to explain why I love the KJV. Before this plot could be carried out, one of the perpetrators had a cousin that was a Palace guard and he warned his cousin to fain being sick on the day chose to exercise their plan but he did not tell why. The cousin suspecting there was a plan to execute the King and gathered the Place Guards to do a thorough search of the Parliament including the underground. Unable to find the gun powder, they prepared to call of the search, but on the way out, a guard returned to the wood pile for another look (I am convinced God sent him there), and discovered the gun powder.
Had this plot succeeded, not only would England be a much different place today, the KGV would not exist. It was estimated that had the Gunpowder exploded, not only would the House of Parliament be destroyed, but a great portion of London as well.
All of this occurred over four hundred years ago, but today in England, on 5 Nov, the entire country celebrates Guy Fawkes Day with huge bonfires and effigies of Guy Fawkes hung on lamp post. It turned out that King James failed in his effort to fundamentally change England for the better, but he left a legacy not matched to this day; depending on your point of view. I spent ten years of my Air Force career in England and have made many trips to London, it a fascination City. However, when you walk around the streets and museums of London, there are statues and monuments of previous Monarchs all over the place, but what you will not find, is any reference to King James, except a little placard here and there. You can make of this what you want to. My remarks are much abbreviated and taking from notes, I wrote while attending a lecture in London with members of the PMOC (Protestant Men of the Chapel) at a base where I was stationed in 1960. That is probably not allowed on Military bases today. I am unwavering in my Beliefs that the rise of King James, who accomplished nothing else of importance but the creation of the KJV, was ordained by God and you have every right to disagree, but I will go to my grave defending this country, and the KJV
Following is one of my favorite Aesop’s Fables:
A Sick Man received a visit from his Doctor, who asked him how he was. "Fairly well, Doctor," said he, "but I find I sweat a great deal." "Ah," said the Doctor, "that's a good sign." On his next visit he asked the same question, and his patient replied, "I'm much as usual, but I've taken to having shivering fits, which leave me cold all over." "Ah," said the Doctor, "that's a good sign too." When he came the third time and inquired as before about his patient's health, the Sick Man said that he felt very feverish. "A very good sign," said the Doctor; "you are doing very nicely indeed." Afterwards a friend came to see the invalid, and on asking him how he did, received this reply: "My dear friend, I'm dying of good signs."
GOD HELP US ALL
C
But we are blameless brother if we are in Christ. GOD HAS HELPED US ALL. Don't be discouraged, it's all part of the plan and we are seeing it manifest IMO, nothing you or we could have done would or should have affected this climate. We are to watch. Just my two cents. I'd suggest taking a break instead of pulling the plug. Blessings!
being "too passionate to control your tongue" doesn't seem like a good reason to back out of talking to anyone, as pretty as you might paint it.
The scripture doesn't teach us to "be true to ourselves"
It teaches us to deny ourselves, and subjugate ourselves to His will, to beat our bodies and make them our slaves -- including our tongues -- and to daily mortify the deeds of the flesh, having died to these things in our immersion into Christ.
To love the rebuke of the wise and cherish the chastening of the Lord, not to flee from it because listening to it would mean "not being true to yourself"
You know what's really interesting is that the scripture teaches this in every translation not just the deal ol' KJV.
But if you want the legacy of your short time here to be "i couldn't control my tongue or my 'passion' so when i was rebuked for it, i cut and run, because being myself is more important than being a member of the body of Christ & being conformed into His image" . . .
Then so be it.
Pretending that that gives anyone but yourself pleasure?
i won't allow you that deception though. You breaking fellowship because your tongue is sharp & your vanity is uncontrolled gives no one delight.
Less than two weeks.
Less than two weeks before discovering that his own tongue is not under perfect subjugation, and that he cannot mold the minds of other men.
And so he runs away, trying to make it look like he is 'holding the moral high ground' by doing so.
Whatever. My God will make these things clear to you also, in His perfect, patient time.
Forgive me for being so blunt with my elders; i am a young fool whose tongue can also draw blood.
Less than two weeks before discovering that his own tongue is not under perfect subjugation, and that he cannot mold the minds of other men.
And so he runs away, trying to make it look like he is 'holding the moral high ground' by doing so.
Whatever. My God will make these things clear to you also, in His perfect, patient time.
Forgive me for being so blunt with my elders; i am a young fool whose tongue can also draw blood.
I have 21+ versions of the Bible available at the click of my mouse or the touch of a screen. I'm able to compare scriptures in each of them with a click or touch. I have 27+ commentaries available in the same manor. I also have 14+ dictionaries available to me. Finally I have a large library of maps and books available. Again, I can analyze a scripture using any of these resources with the click of a mouse or touch of a screen.
I say all of this to bring to an end this discussion of which version is better. When someone brings up a controversial interpretation of a scripture, I can use my easily available resources, along with prayer and the guidance of the Holy Spirit, to find out what God is saying to me in the scripture.
If you like the KJV and believe that it is the inspired (it is) word of God, use it. If you choose a different version and believe it is the inspired (again it is) word of God, use it. If you want to understand what the scriptures are actually saying, you are going to have to dig into every resource available to you and spend many hours of prayer while studying them.
If you are searching the scriptures for salvation, I suggest that you began a discussion with a trusted Christian friend, or the pastor of a local church. When you find salvation through Jesus Christ, the scriptures will take on an entirely different meaning than they did before.
The above is MHO.
Billy
I say all of this to bring to an end this discussion of which version is better. When someone brings up a controversial interpretation of a scripture, I can use my easily available resources, along with prayer and the guidance of the Holy Spirit, to find out what God is saying to me in the scripture.
If you like the KJV and believe that it is the inspired (it is) word of God, use it. If you choose a different version and believe it is the inspired (again it is) word of God, use it. If you want to understand what the scriptures are actually saying, you are going to have to dig into every resource available to you and spend many hours of prayer while studying them.
If you are searching the scriptures for salvation, I suggest that you began a discussion with a trusted Christian friend, or the pastor of a local church. When you find salvation through Jesus Christ, the scriptures will take on an entirely different meaning than they did before.
The above is MHO.
Billy