Why was Cain's offering rejected by God?
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what labor did Abel do to cause his livestock to mate & give birth?
leave a flock of sheep alone and they're going to produce little sheep without your intervention.
leave a garden alone and it's going to become a bed of weeds soon enough.
i really think that any argument about 'works' of one of the brothers hands really goes the opposite of what you've put, Newton. Genesis 3:17-19 describes strenuous toil in relation to cultivating foodcrops, and Genesis 4:2 specifies Abel 'kept' or 'tended' flocks while Cain 'worked' or 'tilled' the ground. that's pragmatically overseeing/managing on Abel's part, and physical labor on Cain's.
i should say, i have heard this description in sermons before - the idea that Cain lazily yanked up some wild grapes or something on his way to the altar at the last minute. it makes for a good topical example if you intend to preach at your congregation, chiding them for slothfulness or something, but it's a narrative that's not actually in the Bible.
leave a flock of sheep alone and they're going to produce little sheep without your intervention.
leave a garden alone and it's going to become a bed of weeds soon enough.
i really think that any argument about 'works' of one of the brothers hands really goes the opposite of what you've put, Newton. Genesis 3:17-19 describes strenuous toil in relation to cultivating foodcrops, and Genesis 4:2 specifies Abel 'kept' or 'tended' flocks while Cain 'worked' or 'tilled' the ground. that's pragmatically overseeing/managing on Abel's part, and physical labor on Cain's.
i should say, i have heard this description in sermons before - the idea that Cain lazily yanked up some wild grapes or something on his way to the altar at the last minute. it makes for a good topical example if you intend to preach at your congregation, chiding them for slothfulness or something, but it's a narrative that's not actually in the Bible.
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“In the course of time Cain brought to the LORD an offering of the fruit of THE ground, and Abel also brought of the firstborn of HIS flock"
THE ground, not Cain's ground. HIS (Abel's) flock, not THE flock. The inference is plain...Cain didn''t work the ground, but Abel raised and tended to his flock.
THE ground, not Cain's ground. HIS (Abel's) flock, not THE flock. The inference is plain...Cain didn''t work the ground, but Abel raised and tended to his flock.
i am currently thinking that Cain held back the first/best fruits.
this coincides with an 'attitude problem' ((where's his gratitude? hehe)) and it comes directly from the text, seeing that it is mentioned Abel brought firstborn, but Cain only brought "some" of his produce. i think this makes a better connection typologically to Balaam & Korah ((per Jude 1:11)), explains how the excellency of Cain's offering was lacking by account of his faith ((per Hebrews 11:4)) and equally explains how his actions, apart from murder, were evil compared to Abel's being righteousness ((per 1 John 3:12)). our final understanding has to jive with these other three mentions of them in the NT
this coincides with an 'attitude problem' ((where's his gratitude? hehe)) and it comes directly from the text, seeing that it is mentioned Abel brought firstborn, but Cain only brought "some" of his produce. i think this makes a better connection typologically to Balaam & Korah ((per Jude 1:11)), explains how the excellency of Cain's offering was lacking by account of his faith ((per Hebrews 11:4)) and equally explains how his actions, apart from murder, were evil compared to Abel's being righteousness ((per 1 John 3:12)). our final understanding has to jive with these other three mentions of them in the NT
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This is your reply to my in post no. 67 regarding the attitude of Cain:
GG said:
With the above, I think we need to say that the attitude with which the gift was given must have something to do with it. If not, God would not be a just God. Surely Abel gave with the heart, and perhaps Cain gave because he felt it was the thing to do.
I do believe this has to be the "main ingredient".
BUT
Do you believe God loved Cain as much?
I believe God loves all His creatures equally until the time that a person makes a conscious decision to not follow God.
See Genesis 4:6-7
It sounds like God is giving Cain advice.
He's even telling Cain that sin is crouching at the door, ready to pound and that Cain must learn to master it.
Might one of those sins have been envy and God was telling him to be careful that it not go too deep into the soul? (James again ... how do wars begin)
And, in fact, in verse 8 we read that Cain did indeed kill his brother.
Also, verse 13.
Was Cain sorry he killed his brother, or was he just sorry he received a harsh punishment?
It's also interesting to consider why God did not want Cain killed.
Might it be because murder is so abhorrent to God because it spills the life blood?
Questions others could consider.
GG said:
With the above, I think we need to say that the attitude with which the gift was given must have something to do with it. If not, God would not be a just God. Surely Abel gave with the heart, and perhaps Cain gave because he felt it was the thing to do.
I do believe this has to be the "main ingredient".
BUT
Do you believe God loved Cain as much?
I believe God loves all His creatures equally until the time that a person makes a conscious decision to not follow God.
See Genesis 4:6-7
It sounds like God is giving Cain advice.
He's even telling Cain that sin is crouching at the door, ready to pound and that Cain must learn to master it.
Might one of those sins have been envy and God was telling him to be careful that it not go too deep into the soul? (James again ... how do wars begin)
And, in fact, in verse 8 we read that Cain did indeed kill his brother.
Also, verse 13.
Was Cain sorry he killed his brother, or was he just sorry he received a harsh punishment?
It's also interesting to consider why God did not want Cain killed.
Might it be because murder is so abhorrent to God because it spills the life blood?
Questions others could consider.
the inference directly contradicts verse 2: "Cain worked the ground"
there are many 'flocks' and only one 'earth' -- if we are talking about a flock of sheep it is necessary to distinguish which one we mean ((should Cain have presented some of Abel's livestock? that's the bloodless-offering-is-rejected implication)), but if we are talking about the ground, there is only one planet in consideration.
there are many 'flocks' and only one 'earth' -- if we are talking about a flock of sheep it is necessary to distinguish which one we mean ((should Cain have presented some of Abel's livestock? that's the bloodless-offering-is-rejected implication)), but if we are talking about the ground, there is only one planet in consideration.
Here is what I posted:
Finally, I believe this passage of the LORDS respect for Abel's offer, implies: That with divine approval, God shot fire from heaven onto Abel's offering. Also see Lev 9:23-24, 1 Kings 18:22-38, 1 Chron 21:26, 2 Chron 7:1)
I said ""I believe"" ""it implies"" & then gave the scriptures that I drew my opinion from. Lev 9:23-24, 1 Kings 18:22-38, 1 Chron 21:26, 2 Chron 7:1
The very last thing I wrote in the post was MOO = My opinion only.
Finally, I believe this passage of the LORDS respect for Abel's offer, implies: That with divine approval, God shot fire from heaven onto Abel's offering. Also see Lev 9:23-24, 1 Kings 18:22-38, 1 Chron 21:26, 2 Chron 7:1)
I said ""I believe"" ""it implies"" & then gave the scriptures that I drew my opinion from. Lev 9:23-24, 1 Kings 18:22-38, 1 Chron 21:26, 2 Chron 7:1
The very last thing I wrote in the post was MOO = My opinion only.
Genesis 4:1-3
Adam made love to his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. She said, “With the help of the Lord I have brought forth a man.” 2 Later she gave birth to his brother Abel. Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord.
Adam made love to his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. She said, “With the help of the Lord I have brought forth a man.” 2 Later she gave birth to his brother Abel. Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord.
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