Why was the Rich man in Hades?

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Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,487
508
113
#1
The Rich Man and Lazarus
19 “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’

27 “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ 29 Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ ”

Why was the Rich man in Hades? What was the reason he was not saved? Or lost his salvation?
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
1,864
1,418
113
#3
because he overlook the poor and didnt help. didnt love his neighbor i say he was in hades. thats what i get from the story. i believe this is real story not parable like some people teach
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,487
508
113
#4
Do you believe he was sincere when he referred to Abraham as Father?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
11,705
2,133
113
#5
The Rich Man and Lazarus
19 “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’

27 “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ 29 Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ ”

Why was the Rich man in Hades? What was the reason he was not saved? Or lost his salvation?
I think a better question is, why was the beggar carried to Abraham's bosom?
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
10,223
1,873
113
#6
I think a better question is, why was the beggar carried to Abraham's bosom?
Simply because that is where the spirits of the righteous went at the time of death which was that place of comfort where Abraham and Lazarus and all the other OT saints went to. Please stop regarding Abraham's bosom as a location. Lazarus was simply taken to Abraham's side which was in the comfort part of Sheol.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
11,705
2,133
113
#7
Simply because that is where the spirits of the righteous went at the time of death which was that place of comfort where Abraham and Lazarus and all the other OT saints went to. Please stop regarding Abraham's bosom as a location. Lazarus was simply taken to Abraham's side which was in the comfort part of Sheol.
I guess we are to assume that the beggar was righteous? How was he righteous?

Bosom = side, that's how the KJV defines it, from start to finish. Bosom is correct.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
5,933
2,772
113
#8
The Rich Man and Lazarus
19 “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’

27 “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ 29 Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ ”

Why was the Rich man in Hades? What was the reason he was not saved? Or lost his salvation?
The same reason why anyone ends up in Hades. Without putting ones faith in God then in the Old Testament no salvation was possible. In the OT they also was saved by faith but in faith of the promised Savior to come. In the NT we are saved by faith in the Savior that has already came and will come again.

Yes the rich man was greedy and prideful and completely looked over the poor man. But that wasn't the reason he was in Hades. All of those are by products of his rebellion and denial of God.
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
2,872
1,728
113
Texas
#9
It's a parable to make the final point, in the last few verses.
But Abraham *said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ But he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!’ But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’ ”
Luke 16:29‭-‬31 NASB
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,487
508
113
#10
The same reason why anyone ends up in Hades. Without putting ones faith in God then in the Old Testament no salvation was possible. In the OT they also was saved by faith but in faith of the promised Savior to come. In the NT we are saved by faith in the Savior that has already came and will come again.

Yes the rich man was greedy and prideful and completely looked over the poor man. But that wasn't the reason he was in Hades. All of those are by products of his rebellion and denial of God.
Your post actually stimulated a question in me that I think is worth asking the CC community.

Other than the Seed of the woman crushing the head of the serpent, and Moses recording that a Servant would come and the people were to listen to Him.....How were Israel to know that they had to place their faith in a Saviour to come?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
11,705
2,133
113
#11
It's a parable to make the final point, in the last few verses.
But Abraham *said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ But he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!’ But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’ ”
Luke 16:29‭-‬31 NASB
Why do think this is a parable? The Lord never uses names in parables. When a name is used, in this case Lazarus, it makes the story a real event. The rich man is not named because his name has been blotted out of the book of life. He is only remembered as the rich man.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
11,705
2,133
113
#12
Your post actually stimulated a question in me that I think is worth asking the CC community.

Other than the Seed of the woman crushing the head of the serpent, and Moses recording that a Servant would come and the people were to listen to Him.....How were Israel to know that they had to place their faith in a Saviour to come?
They didn’t. They had to obey the law by faith. No one was looking forward to the cross. None. And the best this could do is land you in Abraham’s bosom.
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,487
508
113
#13
They didn’t. They had to obey the law by faith. No one was looking forward to the cross. None. And the best this could do is land you in Abraham’s bosom.
That's the way I see it too. Law by faith was the only way. They had to love God. But as to the plan of salvation by a Saviour. I think that was largely hidden. Many thought there would be a King of the house of David which would establish an earthly Kingdom that would never end.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
11,705
2,133
113
#14
That's the way I see it too. Law by faith was the only way. They had to love God. But as to the plan of salvation by a Saviour. I think that was largely hidden. Many thought there would be a King of the house of David which would establish an earthly Kingdom that would never end.
Most prophesies point to the kingship of Jesus, one who will deliver Israel from their enemies. This will take place at His second coming.
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
2,670
554
113
#15
The Rich Man and Lazarus
19 “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’

27 “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ 29 Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ ”

Why was the Rich man in Hades? What was the reason he was not saved? Or lost his salvation?
It is like the rich man that said he kept all the commandments that had to do with loving people, and Jesus said but he lacked one thing he had to do to be perfect to enter heaven, and that is to sell all he had which was not a necessity and give to the poor for love is the fulfilling of the law and that includes helping the poor and needy and only going by your needs for people are more important than our wants, but the rich man went away sad for he had much possessions.

Like the early Church sold all they had that was not a necessity and gave to the saints that had need, and had all things common which they shared everything.

Like Paul said if he did not have charity, love in action, then he is nothing, and people that do not have charity have erred from the faith.

For charity is greater than faith, and faith works by love.

The rich man did not care about the poor and needy even though he had the means to help them and lived deliciously and in pleasure every day, so the rich man did not love people and love is the fulfilling of the law.

People who love people are not rich for people come before them heaping money to themselves and going by their wants above their needs.

The truth is money is not needed in a world that truly loves each other but is only needed in a world where people are selfish and self exalting so the system has to be get your own for many people will not help people with their needs but want to heap and heap, and reap, and reap, and keep and keep.
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
2,872
1,728
113
Texas
#16
Why do think this is a parable? The Lord never uses names in parables. When a name is used, in this case Lazarus, it makes the story a real event. The rich man is not named because his name has been blotted out of the book of life. He is only remembered as the rich man.
Look at how it's written.
So what do we see a nameless man in hell for no other reason given except that he received good things in life.
We also have a poor man a beggar in Abraham's bosom for no other reason than he received agony in life.
Now thins nameless man can see Abraham's bosom, and speak to Abraham from afar off. Does any of this line up with other biblical principles?
Is this a saving and damning virtue to be rich or to be poor?
And from hell can you speak to the father?
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,487
508
113
#17
It is like the rich man that said he kept all the commandments that had to do with loving people, and Jesus said but he lacked one thing he had to do to be perfect to enter heaven, and that is to sell all he had which was not a necessity and give to the poor for love is the fulfilling of the law and that includes helping the poor and needy and only going by your needs for people are more important than our wants, but the rich man went away sad for he had much possessions.

Like the early Church sold all they had that was not a necessity and gave to the saints that had need, and had all things common which they shared everything.

Like Paul said if he did not have charity, love in action, then he is nothing, and people that do not have charity have erred from the faith.

For charity is greater than faith, and faith works by love.

The rich man did not care about the poor and needy even though he had the means to help them and lived deliciously and in pleasure every day, so the rich man did not love people and love is the fulfilling of the law.

People who love people are not rich for people come before them heaping money to themselves and going by their wants above their needs.

The truth is money is not needed in a world that truly loves each other but is only needed in a world where people are selfish and self exalting so the system has to be get your own for many people will not help people with their needs but want to heap and heap, and reap, and reap, and keep and keep.
@MattforJesus - agreed.

Questions for the CC Community:

Old Covenant
>How are you saved?
>How are you lost?

New Covenant
>How are you saved?
>How are you lost?
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
5,933
2,772
113
#18
Your post actually stimulated a question in me that I think is worth asking the CC community.

Other than the Seed of the woman crushing the head of the serpent, and Moses recording that a Servant would come and the people were to listen to Him.....How were Israel to know that they had to place their faith in a Saviour to come?
Every generation had future promises and current commands that each generation is accountable to respond to. Most us can now easily look back in Genesis and see the thread of Jesus connected from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21. The OT saints very early on prophesied about a coming Messiah and for centuries the Jewish people waited in suffering and excitement for their Jewish King to come. Unfortunately by the time Jesus arrived, most Jewish people had split up in sects with different views on the Messiah and many believing he would be their Earthly King and conquer the nations around them. Many to this day are still reading the OT prophecies for a coming Messiah but ignore very obvious passages and history that prove Jesus was the Messiah.


Today we cannot fully understand the Revelation events and coming prophecies but yet we have faith in the promises of God. The OT saints was responsible for what they knew and had received. It took faith for every generation to be saved.

Roman's 4:18-25 By belief Abram was credited as righteous

Hebrews 11:7 by faith Noah became a heir to righteousness.

"The Old Testament saints were just as incapable of following the Ten Commandments as we are today. God provided them with the Law and recognized they would constantly break it. For this reason, He also provided them with an elaborate sacrificial system (to remind them of their shortcomings and the penalty for their continuing sin) and the promise of a Savior. Like us, the Old Testament saints were not saved by their adherence to the Law. They were saved by the grace of God through their faith in the Savior, even though this Savior was only a promise at the time."
https://coldcasechristianity.com/writings/how-were-old-testament-saints-saved/
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,487
508
113
#19
Every generation had future promises and current commands that each generation is accountable to respond to. Most us can now easily look back in Genesis and see the thread of Jesus connected from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21. The OT saints very early on prophesied about a coming Messiah and for centuries the Jewish people waited in suffering and excitement for their Jewish King to come. Unfortunately by the time Jesus arrived, most Jewish people had split up in sects with different views on the Messiah and many believing he would be their Earthly King and conquer the nations around them. Many to this day are still reading the OT prophecies for a coming Messiah but ignore very obvious passages and history that prove Jesus was the Messiah.


Today we cannot fully understand the Revelation events and coming prophecies but yet we have faith in the promises of God. The OT saints was responsible for what they knew and had received. It took faith for every generation to be saved.

Roman's 4:18-25 By belief Abram was credited as righteous

Hebrews 11:7 by faith Noah became a heir to righteousness.

"The Old Testament saints were just as incapable of following the Ten Commandments as we are today. God provided them with the Law and recognized they would constantly break it. For this reason, He also provided them with an elaborate sacrificial system (to remind them of their shortcomings and the penalty for their continuing sin) and the promise of a Savior. Like us, the Old Testament saints were not saved by their adherence to the Law. They were saved by the grace of God through their faith in the Savior, even though this Savior was only a promise at the time."
https://coldcasechristianity.com/writings/how-were-old-testament-saints-saved/
Quality response. Well done
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
11,705
2,133
113
#20
Every generation had future promises and current commands that each generation is accountable to respond to. Most us can now easily look back in Genesis and see the thread of Jesus connected from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21. The OT saints very early on prophesied about a coming Messiah and for centuries the Jewish people waited in suffering and excitement for their Jewish King to come. Unfortunately by the time Jesus arrived, most Jewish people had split up in sects with different views on the Messiah and many believing he would be their Earthly King and conquer the nations around them. Many to this day are still reading the OT prophecies for a coming Messiah but ignore very obvious passages and history that prove Jesus was the Messiah.


Today we cannot fully understand the Revelation events and coming prophecies but yet we have faith in the promises of God. The OT saints was responsible for what they knew and had received. It took faith for every generation to be saved.

Roman's 4:18-25 By belief Abram was credited as righteous

Hebrews 11:7 by faith Noah became a heir to righteousness.

"The Old Testament saints were just as incapable of following the Ten Commandments as we are today. God provided them with the Law and recognized they would constantly break it. For this reason, He also provided them with an elaborate sacrificial system (to remind them of their shortcomings and the penalty for their continuing sin) and the promise of a Savior. Like us, the Old Testament saints were not saved by their adherence to the Law. They were saved by the grace of God through their faith in the Savior, even though this Savior was only a promise at the time."
https://coldcasechristianity.com/writings/how-were-old-testament-saints-saved/
Only that if those OT saints did not obey the law, they were cut off from the nation of Israel and the promises of God.